I bought a used Crossfire (2005 with 18K miles) from a Chrysler dealership this past spring. I always heard used cars were money pits and that is coming true for me. Before buying it I had it checked out by TWO mechanics shops - both gave a clean as a whistle bill of health.

When I brought the car into a dealership for its first "B" Service, I also requested a front end alignment. I was going on a driving trip soon and the car was pulling. After agreeing to do the B and an alignment, they called to say they couldn't do an alignment on 19 inch wheels and I'd have to go to NTB or somewhere whose machine could accommodate larger wheels. That was the kiss of death because I didn't get to bring the car elsewhere before that trip. On the way back home, I started getting shimmying or hopping in my steering at highway speeds. I then brought the car into a chain tire store that could handle 19" wheels. My toe alignment was negative 29 (was supposed to be negative 15 to positive 15). They did an alignment and balanced all 4 tires. As soon as I got on the highway the shimmying and movement in the steering was WORSE. I brought it back and demanded correction. They re-balanced; said the front tires were cupped (showed me); said they'd "missed" that the first time; said replacing them would correct the problems with the steering. I replaced the tires (very expensive!) and the shimmying/hopping in the steering diminished but didn't go away!!! I brought the car to another location of the tire chain. Told them about the shimmying once I hit 65 mph; they rebalanced the tires and drove it around the neighborhood (what good did that do when I said the problem was at highway speeds?). I made a fourth trip back and spoke to the manager who took it out on the highway himself. He concurred with what I had observed at highway speeds; he said the shimmying/vibration started at about 65 mph and got smooth again at about 90 mph. He put the front wheels and tires on a "force variation" machine. I watched in the shop as he put them on a machine that simulated 65 mph with spin. This showed me the tire "hopping" at that speed. He said the right front rim is bent badly and needs replacing (it did look that way to me). He said the left front rim is bent slightly and I can probably get away with not replacing. He said he's 99% sure if I replace the right front rim it will solve my problem. (But that's what the prior guy at the other store in the same chain said about replacing the tires). I have lots of questions. Does this sound believable? How do I know they're right this time? I've been driving 6 weeks on my new tires; if the rim is bent have I already ruined my new tires? I did hit a bad pothole on the highway awhile back (before all this started). Are the rims that fragile - hit one bad pothole and you need new ones??? I read about a class action lawsuit against Chrysler on 2000 - 2002 vehicles specifically with respect to deformed/unduly fragile rims that were ruined with just regular wear. I noticed rims are explicitly listed as not included under the warranty - will the corporation cut you any break on the basis of this past lawsuit? What is a fair price to replace a factory issued rim? These guys quoted me $407 for the part and they'll throw in the labor for all my trouble to date; re-balancing and re-alignment are already covered. How do I know if my wheels are chrome or silver? Lastly, since I got the new tires my low pressure light has been on despite correct pressure. At the second location of this chain they said the sensor is not reading from the left rear tire. Could the guys at the first place have "broken" my sensor or sensor xem? On top of that they said sensors should be covered under the warranty but that the dealer would likely deny warranty service on the basis of the tires having been replaced by other than a dealer. That ticks me off as it is a dealer that sent me looking elsewhere because they couldn't handle 19 inch wheels. I also don't like that dealer charged me $160 for a B Service (I call it a glorified oil change; supposed to be an oil change and checking things over yet they missed the cupped tires)!? Then it took this chain store 4 times to notice the bent rims. It's hard to find good help. I can't bear the thought of throwing good money after bad. I would sincerely appreciate any pointers as to your experiences, gut feelings, opinions about what's going on mechanically, what price is reasonable, what recourse if any I have with the dealership/warranty, and how I can protect myself at this juncture. I loved my car but this saga has taken all the joy out of it.

 

Wow, CF gal, I don't know anything about tires, but you sure did come to the right place. I'm sure you'll get a bevy of advice and resources. I'm so sorry you've had to go through with all this. I do wish you well and hope you find a reasonable solution for your issue and not any more out-of-pocket expenses.

Stacy

 

crossfireGal, sorry to hear you're having troubles with your car. A front end shake, vibration, or misalignment that pulls in one direction or another all can be very annoying, and work together to make driving a chore rather than a pleasure.
Going strictly by what info you supplied, it sounds to me that you can blame the pothole for all your problems. I don't believe that Crossfire's in general have bad rims though. The damaged wheel problems happen alot because of the low profile design of the tires that the Crossfire comes equipped with. There isn't much of a "sidewall" on our tires to absorb road hazards like potholes, curbs, speed bumps etc. and that in turn passes much of the shock to the wheel. Aluminum wheels don't withstand much abuse. The fact that your "toe in" was so far out of wack, is good evidence that the pot hole did you in.
A tire that's badly out of balance can cause a tire to "dance" or jump around and cause the cupping effect that you mentioned. But another thing you might have damaged is your shock, which can cause the very same thing. Also "flat spots" on your original equipment tires can cause dancing too.
If you have been driving around with the bent wheel, and it hasn't lost any air pressure, then chances are, it's not bent bad enough to cause you any severe tire damage quickly, just balance problems. But I wouldn't wait too long before replacing it. If you watch EBAY, you should get some idea as to what a good price for a replacement wheel is. I would think that you could beat that $407 price tag by a wide margin.
I'm sorry I can't give you any advice on the air pressure monitors, I've had no experience with them yet.
As for anything being covered under warranty, Chrysler will probably tell you to try harder to steer around the potholes, because they aren't covered. That's when you can tell them to cough up some cash and buy the proper equipment they need to service the cars that they sell. Good Luck.

 

Oh, I forgot to mention, there are places that also repair wheels too, and even though they're aren't cheap, it may be less than replacing your wheel.

 

I'm not sure where you're located, but check out: http://fixrim.com/wheel.htm. I'm planning on using them for some curb rash repair on my BMW 330 wheels (replacement cost is over $500 because of the "sport" package). I'm sure if you're near any major city there should be some place similar.

 

You mentioned 19" wheels. If you bought the car used and it has 19" wheels on the front they are not original equipment and Chrysler does not offer them as an option (unless someone installed a set of rear wheels on the front). Some aftermarket wheels (cheap ones) can be of poor quality to start and be very prone to road hazard damage.

How many miles did you drive it after you hit the pothole? Did you feel the vibrations right away? If your tires are cupped that would indicate that you drove it that way for some time.

It appears your Chrysler dealer's service department is less than stellar. If you can, try another one. Maybe someone on the forum can recommend one to you if you let us know where you are.

As far as the tire chain goes. The mechanics at those shops are not always the most experienced and need help from the customer in diagnosing the problem. Did you mention that you hit a pothole to them?

As mentioned in an earlier post, the Crossfire uses very low profile tires that can make them more prone to wheel (and tire) damage hitting potholes and curbs. But that is true of any vehicle with that setup.

We all need to be aware of changes in how our cars drive and address those problems as soon as possible, before they become more serious and expensive.

Good luck,

Karl

 

SRT6, thank you for the reply. I have 18" on the front, 19" on back. I too questioned (down the road) why if their machine couldn't align 19" wheels what possible relevance that has to front end alignment of 18 inch wheels? Somewhere along the way someone told me (whether they were correct or not is another story) that when you get a "front end" alignment there is some ancillary involvement/treatment of the back wheels too, so the machine must be large enough for the rears too. Do you believe this is correct? If they in fact could've done the front end alignment because the 19 inch (rear) wheels were irrelevant, that is more fodder for when I write them my gripe letter. I believe I should be refunded by B Service costs for all but the oil and other "parts." If the balance of the "labor" was a check over they should've caught the cupped tires; the service manager already so admitted that to me on the phone. It wouldn't be much money back (under $100) which is a drop in a bucket compared to the cost of this whole ordeal, but it's the principle of the matter. I may not get it but I'm gonna try.

I drove for awhile after hitting the pothole (about 6 weeks) before bringing it to the dealer for the B Service and alignment. It was then another couple weeks (and one long trip) before I got it someplace else after the dealer couldn't do the alignment. It was prior to the dealer visit that the pulling started, not until the long trip that the vibrating started. In my prior car (Mercury Cougar) hitting a pothole would've never caused the scope and depth of these problems. I've certainly learned my lesson about how much more serious hitting a pothole is in a performance car. Didn't help, of course, that I got extremely bad service and extremely bad advice from both the dealer and the chain along the way.

 

Thank you golfergal, fireamx, Grant, and SRT6.

 

crossfireGal - According to your explanation and the amount of time that passed it does sound like you did bend a rim that lead to the cupping of the tire and resulted in the pulling and increase in vibration over time. If you don't get it resolved quickly you'll end up replacing another tire. To best of my knowledge the rear wheels are used for reference points when aligning the front, However i don't know why 19" wheels would be an issue, since the alignment mirrors I have seen clamp on to lug nuts. One piece of advice an alignment specialist gave me was "Don't hit the brakes when you see a pot hole, let the wheel roll through it freely. When you hit the brakes you lock up the wheel, which can transfer the stress to steering linkages and increase you chances of throwing out the alignment." Now I am assuming that the tire store that installed your new tires properly balanced them, it is possible that you did dislodge a wheel weight. Regarding the sensor most likely the tire store damaged the sensors when they popped the bead and now they need to pay for their replacement. Quote from the service manual:

CAUTION: The pressure transmitter must be removed
from the wheel and dropped into the tire prior to breaking
the bead and dismounting the tire. Failure to do this will
greatly increase the risk of damaging the pressure transducer
when servicing the tire.

 

Thanks Idaho.

 

Sorry to hear about your experience. Very large rims, extremely small sidewalls may very probably spell disaster if you hit a pothole - add to that the fact that most shops don't carry 18" and 19" tires and it can only compound problems.

I guess the thing to be thankful about is it didn't leave you stranded.

Good Luck!

 

i have an extra set of wheels (stock) if your interested in one give me an email: lt4transam@***.net.

 

crossfireGal not sure whether you have had your wheel replaced or not but if you haven't you may want to take in this article to the tire store when you go.

 

I found this site for wheels...seems reasonable.

http://www.wheelcollision.com/chrysler3.htm

 

Many of you asked that I update you on my outcome. I deeply appreciate all of your previous advice to a new member!! My right rim was badly bent - not suitable for repair/straightening. I considered numerous options for the rim replacement - mail order, purchase through members of this forum, etc. Factoring in shipping and installation/labor (both included with the in-store purchase), I decided to go with the place that diagnosed the bent rim (this was the second location of the tire chain - not the evil first location.) The major factor in my decision was that the manager guaranteed me that if the rim replacement didn't fix the shimmying, he'd put the old rim back on and charge me nothing. I figured that if I'd bought it on my own and the fix didn't work I'd have been out shipping, installation, AND return shipping - not worth it. My friend who initially hit the pothole (I was in the passenger seat) even paid for half. The manager performed everything personally. I picked it up this evening and it's riding smoother.

This guy said there is "very slight" cupping of the new tires and that should self correct in 2K-3K miles now that everything is proper.

I'm in the process of writing scathing letters to the initial store that had me replace the cupped tires while missing the bent rims. Also to the Chrysler dealership that missed the cupped tires during my B Service. What are your thoughts on cc'ing "corporate" (tire store and Chrysler) & the Better Business Bureau from the beginning vs. only if the local manager does not respond. Would you ask for partial refunds or wait to see if they offer one?

Lastly, this may sound like a silly question but any hints for avoiding potholes? I do live in DC so potholes are EVERYWHERE. I mean, if it's a matter of hitting a pothole or slamming on the brakes (getting rear ended) or swerving (getting sideswiped), the pothole seems like the lesser of evils. How deep does one have to be or how hard do you have to hit it to bend a rim?

 

Glad to hear your got it fixed. Did the tire store pay for your sensor they damaged? When it comes to pot holes if you can't avoid them then as friend of mine who had an alignment business always said don't hit the brake just roll through it. He said when you hit the brakes and lockup the wheel all of the impact is then transferred to the arms and steering linkages making it more likely to throw out your suspension or damage your wheel.

 

Idaho, thanks for the advice on how to handle a pothole when I inevitably encounter them. In answer to your question the original place has not fixed the sensor problem yet, but they I'm determined that they will - all a part of the damning letter I'm writing to corporate HQ. Also asking them to replace the tires (new tires driven on bent rims for 6-8 weeks because they missed the bent rims right in front of their eyes) b/c I was advised that there was minor cupping already which would work itself out in 2-3K miles now that everything's back in order. That may be the case, but I'm not subjecting the suspension to 2-3K miles of cupped tires because of the initial store's negligence. I've driven the car a few more times since I posted last and out of rush hour so I could sustain the highway speeds longer. At 65+ mph there is still a little shimmying in the steering (minimal compared to pre-rim replacement but not back to normal smoothness) which tells me the rims did need to be replaced and what's left to the shimmying is those "slightly" cupped tires. I will lawyer up if necessary to be refunded for all the initial store's screw ups. I've never been so angry about anything.

 

When ever you think you have damage at the front end (steering). The first thing that is always evident is that the steering wheel always moves in that when driving in the straight ahead position the steering wheel spokes will be out of alignment. This indicates damage to the steering geometry at this stage getting a four wheel alignment done is the best way to correct this (applies to all cars). Try a good accident repair shop as these guys should have access to a four wheel alignment gauge. Also some simple underside measurements will soon show up any damaged susp arms etc. Oh I am an ex accident repair mechanic so know the job well (over 20 years exp). Cheers, ronnie.

 

Thanks Ronnie.

 

Guess what friends? A happy ending to my tale of woe. I fired off that irate letter (meticulously documented of course) to the tire store's corporate customer service address. 90 minutes later (on a Sunday no less) my phone rang with an apology and agreement per the letter to refund me for the front tires. (I can then buy new ones wherever I want, put those sucker on the new rims, & then my Xfi should be happy) and to refund me for the front end alignment charges incurred in the original store. They also agreed to pay my TPMS bill from the dealership if it's a sensor problem on one of the tires they worked on (vs. a central computer problem which should be covered under the warranty). No lawyers, no BBB, nor threats of same - just me contacting them and making my argument. I'm not saying the company name on here because I had reserved that (anti-advertising) for them if this didn't work out. This is amazing - a big hell yeah for consumer rights!!!