Sliding this assembly (as a whole - does not need further disassembly) off its post before taking the four bolts out of the frame mounting points is a good idea (which I discovered after the fact):

















I made a mistake here, I guess. Should have just cut the wire tie, but I thought the whole thing was one piece, so I forced the pop-in tie down part out of its hole. Anywhere I can get a replacement? Edit: I think I have found a replacement - ProTie Push Mount Fir Tree Cable Tie available from Amazon ( )

 

The next few pictures are to help me (I hope) when re-assembling the frame and piston to the pump assembly. The routing of the wires and lines seems a bit tricky.

 

The following picture serves as a reminder not to loose the washers associated with the four attachment bolts for the frame. They tended to stick to the grommets and I did not notice them until I physically detached the frame from the assembly.

 

The parts waiting for the installation

 

Most difficult step was removal of the three allen bolts holding down the manifold cover.

I will try to go back through the pictures and add comments, but my memory is pretty short lived ...

No, I have not done any DIY on my cars before, save for spark plugs and the like back in the day. I am somewhat handy at fixing things.

Miami, FL is a very hot climate and the car sits outside, allbeit covered.

Re flushing out the cylinders, I will leave that for tomorrow or beyond. Seem a good idea though, and I suppose I will have to look forward to having all the cylinders rebuilt. EDIT 12 Feb: I did the "flushing out" this morning - very simple and straight forward

 

g3air,

you have been extremely clean and thorough in your work, and thanks for doing such a good job of taking photos. Just think how much money you already saved by doing this part yourself... :-)

If you want to add comments to the photos, you could use the "edit" feature and insert some brief comments above some of the pics that you have posted.

Again, thanks for sharing - this is an awesome help for the crossfire convertible community.

It is not surprising to learn that removing the three Allen bolts on top of the pump's manifold plate was the most difficult step. That probably means it was a matter of having the right tool for the job. As you can see from the pics, there was a lot of threadlock used to hold the screws in place, and that takes a good amount of torque to loosen up. In general, one way to loosen up threadlock is to pound on the bolt in question. In this case, I wouldn't advise pounding, but using an Allen wrench with enough leverage.

The pump manifold plate:

The three bolts holding it in place:


Thanks also for taking the reservoir off the pump to show everyone details of the sludge. The reservoir cap is attached to the pump (sometimes referred to as "hydraulic unit" or "hydro aggregate") p/n 5142638AA with a hose clamp and sealed with an o-ring. Some folks have ended up pinching the o-ring or scratching the reservoir cap's inside just where the o-ring seals it, so I'm not a big fan of DIYers taking off the reservoir at home when it's not needed .

Klaus

Top Hydraulics | Rebuilt and Upgraded Convertible Top Cylinders, Pumps, Hydraulic Lines - Top Hydraulics, Inc

 

hope I did not damage the o-ring, but the sludge was so significant, I thought it best to open up the reservoir, in order to demonstate it and to clean it out before shipping.

 

Sorry if my comment worried you - I was speaking more in general terms, trying to dissuade people from taking the reservoir off just to "have a look". You have obviously been very careful at what you've been doing, and we can take care of any problem with the pump here, anyway.

Klaus

Top Hydraulics | Rebuilt and Upgraded Convertible Top Cylinders, Pumps, Hydraulic Lines - Top Hydraulics, Inc

 

I noted (USPS tracking) that my pump reached TopHydraulics yesterday, so I am starting to think about what comes next. I am assuming the pump is in need of the rebuild and that I will have it back in a week or so. With that assumption, here are a couple of questions:

1. I was thinking I would reinstall the pump and verify the top is functioning correctly. Are there any nifty items / techniques for directing the hydraulic fluid into the somewhat challenging location of the filler opening?

2. Then it would seem smart to rebuild some or all of the hydraulic cylinders, which would mean disassembly again... Does this make sense or would it be better to go ahead and have some (or all?) of the cylinders rebuilt before I reinstall the hydraulic pump? Will the now efficient pump cause the existing cylinders to deteriorate faster?

2. The local AutoZone fellow behind the counter got a puzzled look on his face when I asked about hydraulic fluid. Is there a good online source for this commodity? edit: a bit more searching and (thanks to a post by Klaus I think), found this http://www.autohausaz.com/search/pro...rtnumber=02615

 

I intend to have the cylinders rebuilt that are in the top its self while I have the roof off. will not do others at this time unless I have or see problems.
john

 

I used a $3 transmission funnel and a small section of clear vinyl tubing when I replace the fluid a year ago.
The fluid I used was Pentosin CHF ( also works in the power steering )

 

Well, I have not heard what was done to the pump at TopHydraulics, but it was delivered to them at 1:31 PM on 14 Feb and it is now back in the mail to me (via USPS) by just after noon on 15 Feb (Pacific Time). That is very fast turn around. It will likely take a few days to get back across the country to me.

 

g3air,

your pump has shipped back today (Saturday) via USPS Priority Mail. It is scheduled to arrive on Tuesday, since this coming Monday is a postal holiday. Your pump was not performing to spec even after we cleaned all filters. We ended up finding a sticky piston in the pump. Your pump now has upgraded seals, a new piston/rotor assembly, new brushes in the motor, new relays, and we have checked out and serviced various other components, such as solenoids, check valves, proportioning valves, filters, etc. Pressure and flow match factory specs again.

If you want to try out the pump right away and deal with the cylinders later, then I would highly recommend cycling the old fluid out of the cylinders first, as mentioned in my previous post.

In response to your questions:

1) The pump is shipping back to you with a 2-ounce syringe. As far as I have heard, that syringe's neck is long enough to get into the fill hole of the reservoir even when the pump is installed. Please let us know if we need to add some 1/4" hose in the future that one could slide on the syringe's neck.

IF you can hold the pump horizontally while attaching the hydraulic hoses (so that the top of the reservoir is lower than the hydraulic line ports), then you could actually pre-fill the reservoir. I don't know if that's a viable option.

2) With at least one of your cylinders leaking already, you will almost certainly end up sending us all your cylinders sooner or later. You will save some labor by taking out the cylinders and sending them to us before you re-install the pump, but it wouldn't make a huge difference in the big picture. If ala_xfire gets around to creating the DIYs for cylinder removal (weather permitting) before you tackle the job, then you can probably get a number of useful tips... You could hold off a little, but it would be smart to get it done fairly soon. There are several reasons:
A) The leaks will only get bigger, which means you will have to top off the pump more and more often, and the dripping hydraulic fluid will smell up the car.
B) Fragments of the decaying, original seals inside your hydraulic cylinders will be the beginning of new sludge formation.
C) Peace of mind.

We did not set the hydraulic pressure in your pump higher than factory specs. Still, the cylinder seals are likely to "blow" a bit sooner with the increased pressure in the system. Normally, you will get a warning with seals oozing first and then leaking more and more. You just might not notice the oozing right away.

3) The fluids of choice are Pentosin CHF-11S (available in good car part stores), Mercedes fluid A0009899103 (at your friendly Mercedes-Benz dealer), or Febi 02615 (online). FeBi 02615 is the one ultimately sold in the link you referenced. I will add to this post once again a few comments about hydraulic fluid:


What is so special about the top hydraulic fluid
The kind of fluid used in your system is important, because the wrong fluid can be bad for the pump and it can make all cylinders' seals fail prematurely, or cause corrosion, or make the top move too slow.
Viscosity: the fluid should have low viscosity over a wide temperature range without being a huge fire hazard.
Lubrication and rust protection: moving components should stay lubricated, and the shafts of the hydraulic cylinders get a very thin coat of oil on them as they move in and out, to prevent corrosion.
Inertness: the fluid should not react with the seals in the pump, the solenoid valves, and the hydraulic cylinders. The latter is most important, because the seals in the hydraulic cylinders are most sensitive. The original cylinders all have seals that decay with time, which is a chemical reaction that you cannot prevent. However, heat and the wrong additives in the hydraulic fluid can accelerate the decay of the cylinder seals.
Emulsifiers: the hydraulic fluid should not have emulsifiers in it. The fluid level in the reservoir changes as you move the top, and fresh air gets introduced. That air has humidity in it, and the humidity can condense or get absorbed in the wrong fluid. Brake fluid, for example, absorbs water. Water is one of the worst enemies of your cylinders' seals. The original polyurethane seals in the cylinders fall apart when exposed to water - the material "hydrolizes". If the hydraulic fluid does not have emulsifiers, then condensed water will simply fall to the bottom of the reservoir and not do any harm unless there is so much that it gets sucked into the pump after all.

Brands and p/n's for "liquid gold"
Most auto brands have their own part numbers for the hydraulic fluid, but end up re-labeling Aral Vitamol, Pentosin CHF-11S, or Univis HVI 26. The cheapest fluid in the list below is FeBi 02615, used by Mercedes-Benz in top systems with components almost identical to the Crossfire's. The list below is not covering all brands out there, but it's a good start:

FeBi 02615 (same as Mercedes, BMW, and Porsche fluid) some $10/quart. Available online, for example at Mercedes Convertible Top Hydraulic Pump Fluid (1 Liter) (MBZ Approval:343.0) 000989910310 - RM European Auto Parts (Top Hydraulics or I do not have a financial interest in this).
Mercedes-Benz A 000 989 91 03 (available at Mercedes dealers)
Pentosin CHF-11S (available in good parts stores)
Univis HVI 26 (pushed for Cadillac XLR and Corvette C6)
Saab 93165227
BMW 54340394395
Hoerbiger HB92952-215
Aral Vitamol (in Europe)
Meyle 0009899103 (down under).

How about Stop-Leak
Don't use it, or all cylinders will fail sooner at almost the same time. The idea is that Stop-Leak type fluids swell up seals and make them work again. In the instances that it works, the cylinders will fail again soon and the additive will have attacked all other cylinders' seals at the same time. We find that the seals in systems with Stop-Leak in them crumble apart much more than others, and the additives will make even brand new OEM cylinders fail a lot faster. Stop-Leak is not good for convertible top systems.

Klaus

Top Hydraulics | Rebuilt and Upgraded Convertible Top Cylinders, Pumps, Hydraulic Lines - Top Hydraulics, Inc

 

John,

having us rebuild your two bow tension cylinders while you are replacing the top's canvas is certainly a wise choice. As I stated before, they are the most labor to get out of the car, and much easier to deal with while the canvas is being replaced (right bow tension cylinder 5170014AA and left bow tension cylinder 5142640AA.). After that, all others can be dealt with piece by piece (or by the pair when the main lift cylinders are involved) if your budget is limited and you want to fix only what is obviously broken.

Check your hydraulic fluid. If it is as dark as g3air's, then you may want to reconsider and be more proactive.

Klaus

Top Hydraulics | Rebuilt and Upgraded Convertible Top Cylinders, Pumps, Hydraulic Lines - Top Hydraulics, Inc

 

OK, I am convinced I need to have all the hydraulic cylinders rebuilt before I reinstall the pump. I will study the task a bit first and then get on with it .... Sounds like the bow cylinders are going to be the challenge.

some questions:
1. How to determine if a travel sensor is faulty (reference page 23-500 in the service manual)? If the system was working ok except for the pump, then can I assume all travel sensors are operational?
2. There is a note on page 23-501 which stipulates using new retainers and o-rings when installing hydraulic lines to the cylinder. Will these parts be included in the rebuild package?
3. Any tips on drilling out rivets?

 

^^^ Yes, the other 5 are relatively easy ......

 

And couple more questions:

4. if I am going to remove all hydraulic cylinders, would there be a prefered order in which to remove them?

5. When I have all the cylinders removed, will the top be able to be manually placed back in the top-up position? Will I need to do a reconnect of some of the cables, etc? (this is of some importance to me since the car is not garaged)

 

You can do the 2 latch ones anytime, as to the others, might want to start with the hardest ( bow cylinders ), then finish with the 3 easy ones.
( with the pump out, the tonneau cylinder can now be considered 'easy' )

 

g3air, thanks for all the detailed questions - this is awesome for the forum, as pretty much every small detail and possible problem gets covered.

In response to your questions:
1) If the system was working before, with the only exception that it was moving slowly on account of a problem with the pump, then the travel sensors are okay. The travel sensors fail very rarely. If they fail, then the system will stop moving at some point.
A few remarks about travel sensors, while we're at it: They clip into the aluminum cylinder body, and they react to changes in the magnetic field around them. If a hydraulic cylinder's piston travels past them, then that changes the magnetic field enough for the sensor to send a different signal to the soft top controller. In particular, the Hall sensor inside the travel sensor assembly will be reacting differently to the pulsed signal coming from the controller. Thus, the controller can determine whether a cylinder has reached the end of travel in one direction.
g3air has already removed one travel sensor while removing the pump - it was the travel sensor on the tonneau cylinder 5142641AA as shown in the photo below:



I believe that Chrysler bundled all travel sensors together, instead of allowing you to disconnect them from the harness individually. If anyone should be running into the need to replace a single sensor instead of the whole assembly, please create a new post, and I can try to help out... :-)

2) The rebuilt cylinders will be shipped with one new o-ring per hydraulic line, plus a spare, plus instructions on how to install the o-rings. The cylinders do not come with spare clips. We have spares at Top Hydraulics, but they are precious to us. The clips are completely reusable - no reason for us to manufacture or buy them for every cylinder and jack up our prices. It is best to hang on to the clips that you remove from your cylinders. If you send in your cylinders with clips, then you will be getting the same number of clips back that we received.

3) I have no special tips on drilling out rivets for removal of the bow cylinders 5170014AA and 5142640AA - maybe other forum members do. Instead of riveting again, maybe self-tapping screws would be more convenient?

4) I would start with the main lift cylinders 5142639AA/5170015AA and the tonneau cylinder 5142641AA. Now that the pump has been removed already, the tonneau cylinder would be particularly easy to remove - you may want to start with it for "feel-good factor". I would work on the two bow cylinders last, because that way your top will remain manually operable and tight for the longest time (just in case you need to use the car before you are done with the cylinder removal job).

5) The raised top can be manually locked if you re-install the two rear locks 5142957AA (rear bow lock) and 5166559AA (tonneau cover lock) without their cylinders mounted in them. See pizzaguy's awesome video on manual top operation: https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...operation.html. Removing the cylinder from the tonneau cover lock requires a fairly thin, open 5-mm wrench , and removal of the cylinder from the rear bow lock requires an Allen wrench and a fairly thin, open 7-mm wrench. I will post detailed instructions on how to remove those cylinders from their locks shortly - am running out of time for today.
However, during the process of bow cylinder removal, you will be removing some weatherstripping, fabric tighteners and tension cables. Thus, your top may be a bit sloppy if you lock it manually without reattaching some or all of those parts. I assume that at least the tension cables and weatherstripping should be re-installed before driving the car again, and I don't know how much work that is.

Klaus

Top Hydraulics | Rebuilt and Upgraded Convertible Top Cylinders, Pumps, Hydraulic Lines - Top Hydraulics, Inc

 

I am digesting all the above (thanks again to all for the advice and especially to Klaus at TopHydraulics). So far, so good.....