Originally Posted by elzyata1
HI KLAUS,
My top on Chrysler Crossfire 05 stopped working. After diagnosing it, there were two problems discovered:
- main cylinder travel sensor stop 9902
- Rear bow cylinder travel sensor stop

Please advise if it is very expensive to fix and replace.

Thank you!!

 

elzyata,

welcome again to the forum, and thank you for creating a separate thread about a subject that I believe has not been covered yet on this forum.

This is to qualify my input below: I know the Crossfire convertible top hydraulic system very well, but I am not an expert on Crossfire DTC code reading or diagnosis based on DTC codes. My knowledge of DTC codes comes strictly from reading the service manual.

I have a few questions that may help in steering this thread into the direction of fixing your problem most cost effectively. The solution may be easier than replacing the travel sensors, or it may be more complicated.

1) Apparently, you have had someone with specialized equipment (DRBIII) read DTC codes. Was it your dealer?
2) Did they give you a print out of the codes, or did they give you the information above verbally? There must have been a code number with the rear bow cylinder related sensor?
3) In which direction was your top moving (if it stopped working while moving), and exactly at what point during the movement did it stop?
4) Has any work been done to your top system lately, or did this happen after the inside of the car was somewhat wet?
5) Was your top moving more slowly lately?

The Crossfire roadster top has five travel sensors, also known as hall-effect sensors. They react to magnetic field change, which is sensing the movement (travel) of the pistons in the hydraulic cylinders that they are mounted to. There are two sensors per left main lift cylinder 5142639AA and two sensors per left rear bow cylinder 5142640AA, which are all serviced together. That means all four sensors are tied into one assembly. You could theoretically replace single sensors by splicing the harness, if you are sure that you have found the cause. There is one travel sensor on the top (rod end) of these cylinders, and one on the bottom (base). The fifth travel sensor is on top of the tonneau cover cylinder 5142641AA. This one is part of the pump wiring harness (yikes - you definitely want to fix this one by splicing, if needed).

The travel sensors themselves rarely go bad - it is more commonly a wiring issue or a loose/corroded connector.

The reason for question 1) and 2) is that your description of code 9902 does not match exactly what I read in the service manual. The service manual describes code 9902 as "Main Cylinder Travel Sensor Rod Side Stuck". Each sensor (top or bottom) can give a "stuck" or "inoperative" code. If you have two sensors stuck at the same time, then I would suspect a wiring issue in the travel sensor harness, or a corroded connector, or a low hydraulic fluid level from one or more cylinders leaking.

Looking forward to your detailed response,

Klaus

www.tophydraulicsinc.com

 

Hello elzyata1,

we would like to help you on this forum. We need a little more information in order to narrow this down and to see if we can recommend some easy next steps. What's the latest, and have you had a chance to go over my questions?

Klaus

 

I have a 2006 Crossfire convertible. The top works GREAT, but when I put the top down the 2 small wings on the back metal booth do not come up. I can pull them up, by hand.
Now going down the 2 wings work FINE.
Any suggestions???
Thanks

 

Get a "cable injector" from a bicycle or motorcycle shop and inject a good long lasting lubricant into the cables, not WD40 - that won't last long.
The shop should have some recommended lubricant for cables.

 

Hi all, I have a 2005 Roadster. Bought as is from dealer. Top has never worked.
When I open the D ring windows go down as expected. Pump builds pressure (have to unload it to manually lower top)
I have degree in Electronics, I do understand basics. I've been testing interlocks and nothing stands out wrong.
Anyone have knowledge on testing the hydrologic cylinder sensors. Thanks!

 

Hi all, I have a 2005 Roadster. Bought as is from dealer. Top has never worked.
When I open the D ring windows go down as expected. Pump builds pressure (have to unload it to manually lower top)
I have degree in Electronics, I do understand basics. I've been testing interlocks and nothing stands out wrong.
Anyone have knowledge on testing the hydrologic cylinder sensors. Thanks!

 

Have you downloaded the SRT6 service manual ?
It has all the schematics and hydraulic diagrams and testing procedures for the folding top.

 

Thanks for the speedy response! I have not, I have downloaded from Chiltons and the schematics are good. I will try the SRT6 Service manual. Trying not to pay the dealer diagnostic fee.

 

Is there a charge for this manual and does it cover testing the Hall effect sensors on the top cylinder's?

 

No there is not, and yes it does.

The manual is at http://api.viglink.com/api/click?for...20%5B79.7MB%5D

example :

 

Thanks for the info. I do have this drawing. Do you know what small voltage the sensors produce to tell the convertible top module they are at top or bottom of position?
Thanks

 

Not a clue.
Maybe it is spelled out in the testing procedures ?

 

Thanks, if I find out I'll let you know.
Best regards

 

The sensors are simple switches, I believe, that close or open at the extremes of travel. I THINK you can figure it out from what is in the manual.

Reading thru it and putting the top up and down manually, I think you can figure out what is going on in a reasonable amount of time. THe first thing I'd do is get into the wheel well where the pump is and look at the Top Control Module - water leaks can cause things to get WET back there.

 

Thanks pizza guy, I have the trunk all clear. The top module is out and all connections look good. I read in this blog that the rod sensors are Hall effect. That would mean only a pulse would output when reaching top or bottom of travel. What do you think?

 

Yea, I think you are right. I've never had to get into them, only the top open and divider switches.

 

Be sure the small door/cover in the trunk is in the totally closed and latched position. This can cause the top to not go down.
Good luck.

 

Crossfire1952, welcome to the forum!

You always have to open the pressure relief valve on the pump in order to manually lower it. This is not an indication that the pump builds enough pressure; you are merely bypassing a check valve that gets engaged any time fluid moves back into the pump from the bottom hoses of the main lift hydraulic cylinders.

The Hall effect sensors rarely ever fail, and they would be the last thing I would check on the whole electrical system for the top.

Here are some questions that we need answers for:

Have you checked all applicable fuses and made sure they have good contact?
Do you hear the pump running at all?
Will the pump run if you short out pins 30 and 87 on either of its relay sockets (one at a time), which would supply 12VDC directly to the motor?
Have you made sure that you get signals for "trunk lid closed" and "divider closed" all the way at the connector to the controller?

One more detail before we get into the Hall sensors and after the above questions have been covered, is whether the soft top controller actually gets the signal that the windows are down - I don't recall from memory how this is done in the Crossfire, but you can find out from the service manual. Please let us know for future reference.

For completeness, below are some more details about the Hall effect travel sensors on the Crossfire convertible top hydraulic sensors.

The aluminum cylinders on the left side have travel sensors on them, which are Hall effect sensors. They can be found on the tonneau cover cylinder p/n 05142641AA, on the left bow tension (folding top rear bow) cylinder p/n 05142640AA, and on the left main lift (main drive) cylinder p/n 05142639AA.

Hall sensors pick up the change of the magnetic field near them. They have a magnet built in, and the magnetic field changes depending on how much ferromagnetic material is nearby. The cylinder's shaft and piston are made of ferromagnetic material, and the piston being near the sensor or not makes enough difference for the controller to figure out the cylinder's status with respect to being extended or retracted. There are many ways that the Hall Effect can be used in sensors, depending on how you configure them. In this case, the controller measures the current passing through the Hall sensors when a modulated 100Hz signal is applied. That current varies depending on the magnetic field change and the position of the cylinder shaft in the cylinder. The actual change in current is a few mA.

We could go into this a little further, but it is likely going to be too much of a distraction for future readers, simply because the Hall sensors rarely ever fail. What could fail, are the wires going to the sensors. A simple enough test would be putting a multimeter on the sensor pins of the connector to the controller, once unplugged. You have the pin-out in the diagram that ala_xfire has provided. In one direction, you should measure practically open circuit, and in the other direction you should get a number of MOhm. If you get that, then the wires are okay, and the sensors are almost certainly working.

Klaus
Top Hydraulics, Inc



Location of the hydraulic components in your Crossfire roadster convertible top system

 

[QUOTE=TopHydraulics;866472]Crossfire1952, welcome to the forum!

You always have to open the pressure relief valve on the pump in order to manually lower it. This is not an indication that the pump builds enough pressure; you are merely bypassing a check valve that gets engaged any time fluid moves back into the pump from the bottom hoses of the main lift hydraulic cylinders.

The Hall effect sensors rarely ever fail, and they would be the last thing I would check on the whole electrical system for the top.

Here are some questions that we need answers for:

Have you checked all applicable fuses and made sure they have good contact?
Do you hear the pump running at all?
Will the pump run if you short out pins 30 and 87 on either of its relay sockets (one at a time), which would supply 12VDC directly to the motor?
Have you made sure that you get signals for "trunk lid closed" and "divider closed" all the way at the connector to the controller?

One more detail before we get into the Hall sensors and after the above questions have been covered, is whether the soft top controller actually gets the signal that the windows are down - I don't recall from memory how this is done in the Crossfire, but you can find out from the service manual. Please let us know for future reference.

For completeness, below are some more details about the Hall effect travel sensors on the Crossfire convertible top hydraulic sensors.

The aluminum cylinders on the left side have travel sensors on them, which are Hall effect sensors. They can be found on the tonneau cover cylinder p/n 05142641AA, on the left bow tension (folding top rear bow) cylinder p/n 05142640AA, and on the left main lift (main drive) cylinder p/n 05142639AA.

Hall sensors pick up the change of the magnetic field near them. They have a magnet built in, and the magnetic field changes depending on how much ferromagnetic material is nearby. The cylinder's shaft and piston are made of ferromagnetic material, and the piston being near the sensor or not makes enough difference for the controller to figure out the cylinder's status with respect to being extended or retracted. There are many ways that the Hall Effect can be used in sensors, depending on how you configure them. In this case, the controller measures the current passing through the Hall sensors when a modulated 100Hz signal is applied. That current varies depending on the magnetic field change and the position of the cylinder shaft in the cylinder. The actual change in current is a few mA.

We could go into this a little further, but it is likely going to be too much of a distraction for future readers, simply because the Hall sensors rarely ever fail. What could fail, are the wires going to the sensors. A simple enough test would be putting a multimeter on the sensor pins of the connector to the controller, once unplugged. You have the pin-out in the diagram that ala_xfire has provided. In one direction, you should measure practically open circuit, and in the other direction you should get a number of MOhm. If you get that, then the wires are okay, and the sensors are almost certainly working.

Klaus
Top Hydraulics, Inc



[I]Location of the hydraulic components in your Crossfire roadster convertible top system[/

Wow Klaus, you really know your stuff !!!!! I found the problem before your post.

Problem found !!!! After learning much more about the Crossfire convertible top workings than I ever wanted to, I found the problem yesterday.

My VOM meter was not working reliably so I was limited to a great test tool called a “Power Probe” (see photo) This cool thing lets me test for 12V by lighting a Red led and sings out a High tone for + and also lights a Green led and sings out a lower tone for ground. The probe also lets me inject 12V or a Ground signal to a circuit with the rocker switch on it. The problem that led me down the yellow brick troubleshooting road for days was I had a Intermittent/poor voltage.

The basics is always look for is good power and ground which I did days ago. It looked and sounded ok on the probe, my convertible top also was building up fluid pressure (I always had to unload the pressure to put the top up or down manually) so I moved on to the various interlock micro switches and sensors. After scowering over the drawings and testing I could not find anything looking wrong.

After trouble shooting 4+ hrs and about to take a rest and Beer break, I thought, if I could just get the pump motor to spin, I will feel better about this day! So while probing the motor + and - I noticed the probe reading differently. The red led lit for + but did not sing. I checked it over and over. Then it read nothing. Checked it again and again. Looking at the drawings they showed the 12 gauge red with yellow trace wire going directly to a 40A fuse in position 6 (see photo) at the box under the hood. I looked at the 40A fuse, looked OK. Tested the fuse checked OK, Swapped the fuse. Still no 12V at the Motor, Hummmmmm

So, very carefully, I spliced a wire directly from the fuse box (see photo) to the pump motor, pressed the top open switch and …… ALLILUA the top started to work.

!!!!!! Yes, the fuse box has been the problem !!!!!!

So far I have not tried to repair the wire/fuse box issue. Depending on the complexity of that, I may just run a new wire.

Oh by the way, some time in my cars life someone removed a small access panel (see photo) in the driver side wheel well. This is most likely why the fuse box failed. Heavy amounts of road water spins in thru this opening and blows about the engine compartment. …. I will be replacing this seemingly simple panel ASAP !!!!!

A bit about myself, I’m a 63 year old, retired from the Electronic/Computer industry. In the early 70’s I was a senior troubleshooter for a major computer company. Now I just have too much time on my hands.






Fuse box.




Adapted probe for connector testing.




Power probe.




Power splice at motor.






Access panel area.




Missing access panel.




Going home for the day. Happy camper!