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AFR Question

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Old 04-21-2014, 11:49 AM
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Default AFR Question

I found out how to convert the voltage reading on the TorquePro app to air/fuel ratios. Mine had previously been tuned by EC. What I found is, during a steady RPM the car tries to stay about 13:1. When I hit the throttle it temporarily jumps to very lean, like 15 or 16:1. Is that normal, just the time it takes the computer to adjust or should I be worried? The car ran like a bat out of hell.


I'll be installing the NW manifolds, supercooler, and one step cooler plugs once I get it back from transmission repairs and then re-tuned.
 
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:43 PM
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Default Re: AFR Question

test it under full power in 3 gear ,,,you should be between 11.1 to 12.2 any higher is slightly lean I never go over 12.3 , I don't worry about idle or cruising I only worry about wot and being above 13.2,,then i know my pistons are starting to melt,maybe,maybe not but i always make sure i am below 13.0,,,jim
 
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:51 PM
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Default Re: AFR Question

You might want to get the wavetrac LSD before your future listed mods. I bought Jim's extra wavetrac and it is just completely awesome - now the only thing that spins on hard takeoff is my eyeballs
 
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Old 04-21-2014, 01:31 PM
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Default Re: AFR Question

Originally Posted by Da55id
You might want to get the wavetrac LSD before your future listed mods. I bought Jim's extra wavetrac and it is just completely awesome - now the only thing that spins on hard takeoff is my eyeballs
The LSD is next on the to-buy list but I already got the supercooler, plugs, and Grip's manis. Since my tranny broke my car budget is blown for a while.
 
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Old 04-21-2014, 01:35 PM
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Default Re: AFR Question

Originally Posted by amx1397
test it under full power in 3 gear ,,,you should be between 11.1 to 12.2 any higher is slightly lean I never go over 12.3 , I don't worry about idle or cruising I only worry about wot and being above 13.2,,then i know my pistons are starting to melt,maybe,maybe not but i always make sure i am below 13.0,,,jim
Thanks Jim. WOT at third gear, I'll have to find a long stretch of country road.
 
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Old 04-21-2014, 03:08 PM
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Default Re: AFR Question

Originally Posted by meh03
Thanks Jim. WOT at third gear, I'll have to find a long stretch of country road.
it does not have to be 135 mph just run in 2 at say 4000 rpm then floor it and hold it on the floor to about 6000 in third
also Needswings has the wavetrac for sale jim
 
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Old 04-21-2014, 04:17 PM
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Default Re: AFR Question

If it's going that lean under WOT he won't have to worry about other mods
 
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Old 04-21-2014, 04:23 PM
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Default Re: AFR Question

Originally Posted by cobraken
If it's going that lean under WOT he won't have to worry about other mods


Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of. I trusted the EC tune with only a single CAI and 65mm pulley and just checked it recently. When I saw those numbers it scared me. Have not driven it much since to evaluate further. I will check any tune going forward! My long term fuel trim was something like +4.
 

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Old 04-21-2014, 05:18 PM
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Default Re: AFR Question

Originally Posted by meh03
Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of. I trusted the EC tune with only a single CAI and 65mm pulley and just checked it recently. When I saw those numbers it scared me. Have not driven it much since to evaluate further. I will check any tune going forward! My long term fuel trim was something like +4.
just a note you do not have to worry about afr (temp of pistons) unless you are wot,,
in otherwords you can drive that car for the next 20 years 200,000 miles and not have a problem,(because you stayed out of the throttle) so drive it ,,,put a block of wood anout 1/2" thick so when you floor it it can not go wot. LOL.. just do it. and enjoy your car. jim
 
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Old 04-21-2014, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: AFR Question

Using narrowband sensors to read afrs at wot is risky, they are not very accurate at anything higher or lower than stoich.
 
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Old 04-21-2014, 07:03 PM
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Default Re: AFR Question

I've never had any problems and haven't gone WOT for more than maybe 1/8 mile. Weekend car. I just want to make sure the next tune is right. I'm buying Grips SL55 pump just to be safe.

Anyone happen to know if EC has a tune on file that I can reference for CAI, 65mm pulley, NW manis, NW y pipe, and SL55 pump?
 
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Old 04-21-2014, 07:11 PM
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Default Re: AFR Question

They have a tune on file for just about any combination
 
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Old 04-21-2014, 07:30 PM
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Default Re: AFR Question

I've had both rich and lean tunes at WOT. (9's to 13's) If your running lean be sure to run good gas, at least 93. I've raced my car on the lean side (13 WOT) and been OK but I put 100 in the tank. Not to mention, just because I got away with it is no guarantee that you will. The pump will help, change the filter at the same time.

Les
 
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Old 04-21-2014, 09:29 PM
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Default Re: AFR Question

Just move to a location that is 5280' or higher. You will never seen lean issues.
 
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Old 04-22-2014, 06:53 PM
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Default Re: AFR Question

EC tune, NW CAI, and code3 pulley(2nd gen - not sure of size) - everything was good. Added the modified NW intake manifolds and began running lean - high 12 to low 13. Had to change to the SL55 fuel pump. I was lean through 3rd gear usually on initial WOT and shift change. The OEM pump could not maintain pressure.
 

Last edited by Dementors; 04-23-2014 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 04-22-2014, 07:37 PM
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Default Re: AFR Question

Originally Posted by Dementors
EC tune, NW CAI, and code3 pulley(2nd gen - not sure of size) - everything was good. Added the modified NW intake manifolds and began running lean - high 12 to low 13. Had to change to the SL55 fuel pump. I was lean through 3rd gear usually on initial WOT and shift change. The OEM pump could maintain pressure.
Hey guys please be easy as I haven't been on the forum for a while, and now that spring is near, im back. But hasn't anyone upgraded the fuel pressure regulator to a boost compensating style to increase fuel pressure during boost, or just plain increase fuel pressure by 5psi to help lower the AFR.. or is the fuel pump still the bottle neck?


I thought I read a thread that began with that concept but cant find it anymore.
I hate not knowing what my AFR is, and I haven't driven the car much since Ive done my mods. Ill be putting in a wideband this spring.
 
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Old 04-23-2014, 11:05 AM
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Since the dual spark plugs have a more complete fuel burn in combustion chambers and the two intake valves with one exhaust valve is supposed to increase in the excess fuel burn before o2 sensor in exhaust. So compared to a Standard engine AFR what are specs for our engine since it should show running leaner then a standard engine. Which is why our engine is rated in the top 5 in fuel efficient petrol engines.
 
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Old 04-23-2014, 01:38 PM
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Default Re: AFR Question

Originally Posted by Speedy4x4
Since the dual spark plugs have a more complete fuel burn in combustion chambers and the two intake valves with one exhaust valve is supposed to increase in the excess fuel burn before o2 sensor in exhaust. So compared to a Standard engine AFR what are specs for our engine since it should show running leaner then a standard engine. Which is why our engine is rated in the top 5 in fuel efficient petrol engines.


A standard engine should be around 14:1, ours should be around 12.5:1
 
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Old 04-23-2014, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Sik Srt-6
Hey guys please be easy as I haven't been on the forum for a while, and now that spring is near, im back. But hasn't anyone upgraded the fuel pressure regulator to a boost compensating style to increase fuel pressure during boost, or just plain increase fuel pressure by 5psi to help lower the AFR.. or is the fuel pump still the bottle neck?


I thought I read a thread that began with that concept but cant find it anymore.
I hate not knowing what my AFR is, and I haven't driven the car much since Ive done my mods. Ill be putting in a wideband this spring.

NW does have an adjustable regulator that can be installed as long as you install a non regulated filter. I've read on here the stock pump will flow enough with that added. However, I have also read several that have added the SL55 pump and that solved the problem.


Those two conflict. If you install the SL55 pump, you still are limited by the stock filter's regulator. The only way that makes sense to me is if the stock pump is falling off at higher RPM's and the SL55 will still flow as much as the filter will allow which is why it helps.
 
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Old 04-23-2014, 05:33 PM
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Default Re: AFR Question

Originally Posted by meh03
NW does have an adjustable regulator that can be installed as long as you install a non regulated filter. I've read on here the stock pump will flow enough with that added. However, I have also read several that have added the SL55 pump and that solved the problem.


Those two conflict. If you install the SL55 pump, you still are limited by the stock filter's regulator. The only way that makes sense to me is if the stock pump is falling off at higher RPM's and the SL55 will still flow as much as the filter will allow which is why it helps.
I added the SL55 pump and it helped some but still a little lean at the top, so I put on the unregulated filter and adjustable regulator from NW. I haven't had the chance to check it yet, my car is still sitting while I redo the head liner.
 


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