The Eclipse 500 is a VLJ, very light jet, and was developed as a relatively affordable jet alternative to high end piston and turboprop planes. There have been several companies formed to build VLJs but currently only Eclipse and Cessna have product to sell. The Eclipse company was formed around ten years ago and have had numerous difficulties in getting the 500 to market. Originally the 500 was to be sold at $1.3 million or so but now is priced at $2.2 million or possibly more. Even though deliveries are now being made the company may still go under. However, if you want your own personal jet with rear end kicking performance, this is the only way to go.

This particular 500 was recently delivered to a customer of ours. The customer is a retired airline captain so flying jets is nothing new. He is planning to fly my manager and their wives to the Charger game in Denver next month. I'm not jealous, really .

The pictures were taken in a dark hangar with flash so the quality is not the best. Actually I have problems with taking quality pictures under the best of conditions but I digress. There are fuel tip tanks on the tips of each wing and had I been able to get further away (or had a wider angle lens) these tanks would have shown up better. The instrument panel is known as a glass cockpit since the primary way to display data is through displays rather than individual instruments. I don't know how much the avionics cost but I'd guess $100K would not be too far off. The 500 also uses a side mounted control stick instead of a control wheel or yoke. The 500 can carry six people total though I imagine that with six on board not much fuel can be carried to keep the total weight at or below the allowable gross weight.

For fun I've included another fine quality picture of a standard Cessna instrument panel just to highlight the advances made. New aircraft are coming equipped with glass cockpits or have the option to be so equipped but the vast majority of older aircraft still look like this one.

Anyone want to buy an Aero Blue SRT-6 with almost 23,000 miles for $2.2 million dollars?

 

another cool post brent, thanks for sharing.

What do you think about this baby:



btw what will the manager and wives do when they have to go potty?

 

I think the HondaJet will be a tough sell. Honda is known for building reliable cars. Honda is not known for building good airplanes. The reputation of a car company does not mean much to an airplane buyer. Then there is the little matter of a slow economy. Finally, airplanes are like cars - style sells. The HondaJet may be the most fuel efficient, low maintenance, best performance business jet out there but I bet most potential customers will look at it and think "Nah, looks too dorky to represent my company".

Now where Honda could make some sales is to fractional ownership businesses. Such a company can schedule the jet for the customers whether they cared for it or not. It would be a case of the customer can have any jet in the company, as long as it was a HondaJet.

 

For men there is Lil John (container to whiz in) or a soda can. For women there is Lil Jane (ditto) and not much else.

I don't know if the HondaJet has a toilet, the Eclipse certainly doesn't.

Every so often I'm asked how far a typical Cessna or Piper can fly. My response is that the fuel on board will outlast your bladder.

 

It's nice to know that even the ultra-wealthy have to use the Lil' ones !!

 

Brent, cool pictures...our company has a Bravo, it is for sale as a new Leer is being delivered Tues...I will have to take some pictures...we just did a fly-in of potential customers, our Jet, plus a second for hire, 5 trips a day for 3 days, I drove the limo bus...back and forth, while our pilots complained...I told them I would trade them places anytime...they know they got it made....anyway, we fly out of INDY EXEC if you are ever in the neighborhood...

 

Yes, please post pictures.

I've never been to IN before but if I do go there it will probably be by plane.

I take it that the Bravo is a Mooney. Mooney builds good planes but never sells enough to stay in business. They have gone through so many bankruptcies but there is always someone out there willing to gamble on Mooney.

I'm surprised your company went with a Lear and not a Citation. Not that a Citation is better, it's just that every company buys one. Sort of like getting a 350Z or Mustang.

 

Today was the day for the Denver trip. I brought my camera to work so I could get a picture of the Eclipse taking off. Being a jet I should have no problem hearing it long before it lifts off and speeds out of sight. Plenty of time to get pictures. Anyway I drop my manager and his wife off at the Eclipse and head back to work. After a bit I remember (duh) to get my camera ready. As I start to pull my camera from it's bag, between hangars I happen to see the Eclipse zooming down the runway. Very quietly zooming down the runway. And then just as quietly zipping up into the clouds. Did I mention that this jet is quiet? It was all I could do to snap a couple of quick pics. Wrong lens, no zoom, no fine tuning the focus, don't even want to know what the white balance was set to; in other words I did not get good pictures. Below is the best of a sorry lot and a crop of the Eclipse.

Oh, and these were taken at 8:38 this morning. It is approximately 833 miles to Denver. At about 11:25 this morning my manager called............from Denver.

 

Brent, seeing I live in Kerrville, (HoM) the mention of Mooney caught my eye. What is the Ground speed of the Eclipse? Three hours to fly 833 miles? Check out these latest Mooney Links:
http://www.rolls-royce.com/media/showPR.jsp?PR_ID=40699
http://www.pointniner.com/2008/08/ro...ve-mooney.html
ALSO
http://www.mooney.com/index.php?opti...emid=54&id=346

http://www.iqpc.com/News.aspx?id=118783840&m=defence

I they made a C-47, it would be the Mooney Gooney

John P

 

According to the Eclipse website the 500 max cruising speed is 370 kts and it has a max altitude of 41K ft. 350 kts at 35K ft would be more like the normal cruising speed and altitude.

My manager finally showed up late this afternoon (they had stopped in Laughlin NV for lunch and a little gambling) and said that the trip to Denver only took 2 hours twenty minutes. They had a tailwind and were doing 400 kts but there was a problem with the yaw damper so they could only go up to 32K ft. It appears that the yaw damper has to be engaged at higher altitudes. It took me a day and a good 9 hours or so of flight time to fly from San Diego to Colorado Springs in a Piper Warrior. The highest I got was when the air currents carried me up to 12K ft. A fun time was not had.

The manager also said that all flight parameters are recorded on a data card and the owner can pull the card and send it to Eclipse. The company will read the card and diagnose the problem with the damper and determine a fix. Pretty much like the ECUs with our cars.

The Acclaim has some kick-a$$ performance but then for $600K it better! Cruise speed is outstanding under the right conditions but even at 25K ft a pilot is going to run into weather where as the 500 can get above most weather.

The small turbine from RR is very interesting and highlights several trends in aircraft engine development. This turbine can replace complex high HP engines currently in use but also presents several problems. One is cost. Turbines are very expensive to purchase (high HP engines are merely expensive) and are also expensive to operate and maintain. Plus, turbines require addditional pilot ratings to operate which, of course, requires more training. Finally, insurance is going to be expensive and you can bet insurance companies want to see adequate flight time, required ratings, and proper training before they would even think of issuing coverage.

Then there is the problem with the Acclaim itself. The plane is a four seater and to get the most from a turbine a pressurized six seater is preferrable. But then the two extra seats and pressurization means a redesign, higher purchase price, higher insurance and so forth. Piper has already produced a comparable plane in the Mirage (though I don't think it is pressurized) and it can be risky introducing a similar plane to a limited market. Pressurization is important if one wants to get on top of the weather - and one isn't going to get much higher than 25K ft without being pressurized. The $600K Acclaim can easily balloon into a $1.3M turbine Acclaim. But...the turbine can run on jet fuel which is cheaper and more available than avgas. And if the market opens up for small turbines they can come down significantly in price. And obviously there is a potential market for a four place turboprop else Mooney and RR would not be investing in such an aircraft.

Incidently, Piper has just introduced their jet. There is a pecking order in the world of general aviation with single engine pistons on the bottom, twin pistons above, turbine twins next, and jets on top. Unless one has a piston WWII fighter - this single engine piston ranks above jets.

As for engine trends, the main one currently being persued is diesel piston engines. Again like turbines, they can run on jet fuel with the same advantages. The market is much greater than for small turbines since these diesel engines are looked at as replacements for traditional Lycoming and Continental piston engines. Unfortunately a potential major manufacturer has gone into bankruptcy. Cessna was getting ready to introduce a diesel powered 172 but that is now on hold because of the bankruptcy.

About 10 years ago at least one company was looking at building large V8 piston engines in the 600 - 800 HP range as substitutes for turbines due to lower costs. I don't know if anything came from this but I guess an internet search will provide answers.

The Mooney Gooney. I like it! But try gettng the name past Marketing.

 

power to weight ratio and NOT a turbine? Supercharged Rotary hands down...

Seannon

 

You guys are drowning me in facts. I surrender.
Any comments on this engine?
http://www.zoche.de/index.html
http://www.zoche.de/specs.html

John P.

 

A supercharged rotary? That's a new one to me. Linky-linky please!

The Zoche engines look good. I don't know how far in development it is but this is just the type of engine needed to replace avgas ones.

 

B-17s were supercharged by McCullogh/Paxton blowers

 

But they were supercharged radials. Come to think of it, is that supercharged or turbocharged?

Seannon, were you refering to Wankel rotaries from Mazda? A number of home builders install Wankels on their planes. The engine is not very popular but does have a following.

 

Brent, my bad. I dyslexic'd Radial for Rotary. The B-17 had "turbosupercharged" Radials. Excellent article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-17_Flying_Fortress

John P.

 

http://atkinsrotary.com/
http://www.camdensuperchargers.com/

I know that they WERE selling aviation engines, but I did not see the link for them this time. the person that owns and runs this biz has a plane that uses rotaries that he builds... the actual engines are the same except the external stuff like spur gear and all...

Seannon

 

they were both... they had turbochargers feeding a centrifugal supercharger

and yes, I was referring to the Wankel rotaries produced by Mazda... the first one I knew about making 650 HP was owned by Adam Suwatari (I think was his name) it was a 3rd gen and produced a bit over 650 WHP
(not bad for a street legal car... running pump gas, really not bad when you consider it was a 13B which is 1.3 Liter... or 80 CID) if you do the math, that is 500Hp/l when compared to say a Boss Mustang... (302cid, or 5.0l) would need to produce 2500 Hp or in the case of a Corvette with an LT1 350 CID? 2850hp. how about a nice big block? chrysler 440... would need to produce 3605Hp to match this...

Seannon

 

I'm guessing that the rotaries for aviation use came with gearboxes. The line was probably dropped due to slow sales.

Rotaries are small, light,and can make serious HP - just the thing for airplanes. But they are also less efficient and require a gearbox. Airplanes, far more than cars, are a series of compromises.

FTroopChief, the B-17 is a classic, definitely in the top ten if not the top three. This plane will still be drawing crowds long after it's replacements are forgotten.

 

Brent, Did you know about this WWII German?? Aircraft? DORNIER DO 200
http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/28...200/do200.html

How about special Luftwaffe units such as KG 200 and Zirkus Rosarius.

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org...7fortress.html

I don't know of any other airframe that could take such a beating and remain in the air.
Battle-Damaged B-17 Flying Fortresses: Contents
Battle-damaged B-17s. Click on the B-17 section you would like to see:. Click on the section you want to see · NOSE.........................FUSELAGE. ...
www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/contents.htm - 3k - Cached - Similar pages

John P
FTroopChief