Death Panels Will Save MONEY

[///SilverSaphRT6]

Enjoying.........you guys are very smart!! I have no idea about politics...right, left, libs, conservs,indep, pork, mmm yes pork.... but I do like Ross Perot. Sorry to intrude but I am enjoying....please procede gentlemen.

[Franc Rauscher]

Originally Posted by mdaniels4

I think the biggest problem we have re: most of your commentary Rush, is that it's so far to the left, and one sided, that it makes it almost impossible to discuss or respond to. The vilification of the right side of the house, and the general goodness and I'll always grant them the benefit of any doubt to the left side is really hard to take seriously.

You can have of course any opinion you want, but the fact remains that the left side has been just as involved with corporatism, and dirty dealing as the right side. Perhaps even more so being as deeply embedded in backdoor politics as they have been all these years. Oh yeah, they say all the sweet things one likes to hear, only to have that come back right around and bite you in the behind.

You don't think the unions aren't one massive corporation? Think again buddy. What about the ACORNs of this world, and all the agencies, public and private that are advocating, and with righteous and patriotic glee, illegal activity by their promotion and protection, hiding if you will the illegal aliens streaming in here.

They are just as much the corporatists of which you speak against. One is not better than the other. However, I do have a tad more respect for the one that speaks their position more upfront, even if I don't agree with what they're saying, rather than couch it in a forked tongue language. I hear the words come out of their mouth, but I see something akin to spite, or contempt for us in their eyes. In that respect, you've always been consistent in what you say, so I have no issue with that because you've been upfront.

But again, believe of course what you want. Ain't nobody gonna take that away from you. I can only hope that you just don't try to believe that what you say will be taken really seriously, because what you say, and how you say it implies an irrational mind. One not open to any other possibility. And no one can have any real discussion with that.

You have an excellent point here Mark
The corporations that have been vilified in health care, the hospitals, the insurance, pharmaceutical, Medical device industries, have been made the evil enemy. They are the problem we have to solve, to reduce cost and exorbitant profits made off the "poor dying patients."

The problem with the currently passed Legislation is that the evil corporations involved, got their sweetheart deals. (who remembers the industry leaders meeting clandestinely at the White House in April of 2009?) If they were the problem before, at least there was some perception of competitive forces in the transaction of providing health care.

In a recent interview, Governor Brian Schweitzer (D) of Montana was explaining the reasoning of getting to the "cause" of high health care costs. That is was these industries, these corporations and their lobbyist who were responsible for the escalating costs. He then went on to explain the greed and corruption of these evil companies and why A federal Health care system would reign the costs in.

But when asked to explain how come then, the Congress set it up to include in the bill, certain elements of the bill which actually force Americans to purchase products from these same companies, his defense was that Congressmen did not write the bill, the lobbyist did. It was the fault of the Lobbyist "who write the laws".

HUH??
http://www.ktvq.com/news/gov-schweitzer-on-fox-news/


My first reaction was "I thought Congress made the laws according to the will of the people?" Apparently not. It would seem OK with the folks in power to just "approve what the Lobbyists want to do.

It's a blame game guys. And both parties do it.

Time to turn them out, All of them.

If a young black man from a mispent youth, who hadn't even run a paper route before politics, can rise to the Presidency and be capable of doing the job, then we can certainly try to fill Congress with Shopkeepers, Farmers, and Squirrel Hunters.

It's not like we haven't done it before.

[blackcrossfire07]

Originally Posted by AlanH

Well if you actually listen to the very short clip, you won't hear Krugman use the term "death panel" once. He attempts to explain what an advisory board does in determining the suitability of a particular treatment for a particular patient. Every health insurance company in business in the US today does this. If your doctor decides you need a treatment or procedure, your insurance company has to approve it or it won't be covered. If they refuse to pay, and you can't, you don't get the treatment. This is also in place with Medicare/Medicaid, and has been for a long time. If this is how you define a death panel, then we've had them for years, and they were implemented by the industry itself.

I attributed the term to Palin, because she coined it, and tosses it around at will. The state of health care in this country, reformed or not, certainly can't be blamed on her. Bending the truth can, but she's a politician, and that's what they do.

As far as the bill bankrupting the country, that isn't what the CBO said, it's what a bunch of politicians have said. Some facts & maybe a few numbers to back up their statements would be nice.

Besides, remember what Mr. Cheney said? Deficits don't matter!

The real problem here is that the current rise in helathcare costs is not sustainable. For several years now I have seen my costs rise faster than my earnings, and my coverage begin to slowly erode. If the Republicans can bring me a plan that stops this, I'll support it. They have not done this yet. I'm waiting....

Liberals defending liberalism...well call me a liberal if it makes you happy, but since my 18th birthday I have voted for many, many more Republican candidates than Democrats, however no party gets my blind support because of their platform, and I'm way past being able to be manipulated by the tactics of fear.


Liberalism a disease? No, extremism is a disease. Liberals and conservatives working together to hammer out the best possible solution is what I would have liked to have seen, but I'm afraid that's become impossible in our country, and that's what really spooks me.

Want to lower healthcare costs? Control the lawsuits. It is as simple as that. I would rather pay higher premiums then let the government step in and put private health insurance companies out of business. Then the government will control and run healthcare.... along with doctors and drugs. Be prepared for a lower standard of doctors and medicine with this plan. You will pay less and get less in the end! This same principle applies with everything in life.

We already know the gov couldn't run a hot dog stand in NY. Post office is going out of business. Medicare is a mess. So you think the gov plan will be cheaper in the end???? Everything they touch goes to crap! I am getting ready for a train wreck.... but this train wreck is going to destroy your health along with every aspect of your life. If you can't see you are screwed then you deserve what you voted for.

There are no death panels today. That is a lie fabricated by the liberals that you bought hook line and sinker. You don't have to call it a pig for it to be a pig. It is a death panel either way you slice it. Like I said, Liberalism is a mental disease. Worse than a cult.

We had the best medical services in the world.... now we just dropped down to less than average thanks to Obama and the people that support him.

[blackcrossfire07]

Let me say this.... my grandmother that is still alive today (may God bless her) was in Germany at the start of WW2. Her home was raided by stormtroopers. She left Germany and came to US because of fear. She is alive today and tells the stories. You should hear her opinion about Obama and our government.... you would think WW2 was going to start all over.

I may not have read many books (as Rush likes to say). But I am speaking from past generations of family that lived through history. There is not one book that can give you the same perspective as someone that lived through the times. Listening to her compare her experience to what is happening right now is very scary!

You libs better wake up soon before it is too late!

[AlanH]

Originally Posted by blackcrossfire07

Want to lower healthcare costs? Control the lawsuits. It is as simple as that. I would rather pay higher premiums then let the government step in and put private health insurance companies out of business. Then the government will control and run healthcare.... along with doctors and drugs. Be prepared for a lower standard of doctors and medicine with this plan. You will pay less and get less in the end! This same principle applies with everything in life.

We already know the gov couldn't run a hot dog stand in NY. Post office is going out of business. Medicare is a mess. So you think the gov plan will be cheaper in the end???? Everything they touch goes to crap! I am getting ready for a train wreck.... but this train wreck is going to destroy your health along with every aspect of your life. If you can't see you are screwed then you deserve what you voted for.

There are no death panels today. That is a lie fabricated by the liberals that you bought hook line and sinker. You don't have to call it a pig for it to be a pig. It is a death panel either way you slice it. Like I said, Liberalism is a mental disease. Worse than a cult.

We had the best medical services in the world.... now we just dropped down to less than average thanks to Obama and the people that support him.

Yes we need tort reform! how about that, we agree on something! But it isn't enough. Not by a long shot. Costs have to be controlled.

No, of course there are no death panels. Hey how about that, two things! But there are people who determine what health care you will get, or at least what will be paid for by your insurance company, which for many is the same thing. I have had necessary coverage denied, and had to go to court and force the insurance company to pay.

We have the best health care in the world? Well if you define "best" as "most expensive" you're right. If you define it by lowest infant mortality, it's not the best. If you define it by amount of people covered, it's not the best. if you define it by hightest life expectancy, it's not the best. Fact is we spend the most & get the least.

How do you figure the government is putting private insurance companies out of business? There is no public option in the bill. There are new rules for the industry, but it's all still private.

It isn't the bill I really wanted either, and the things that concern me are more immediate and real, such as where the premuims will go, and what employers will change in their offerings.

The Republicans could have been much more effective than they were in this debate and what came to pass. Instead, because they couldn't be in charge, they threw a colossal temper tantrum, folded their tent, and went home. Shame on them for not stepping up. Want to blame someone for this, blame your own party. They forfeited the game.

[Jesus_Christler]

Originally Posted by blackcrossfire07

I didn't vote for Romney or live in the state. Last I checked the majority are liberals in Massachusets... And they got what they deserved. Maybe that is why Scot Brown got elected... because the Libs in that state woke up and saw the national healthcare mess that was going to happen (and just did).

Good on showing your ignorance, B.

I tried to give your Republican friends some credit and you take a dump on me.

Mitt actually got his ideas from proposals the Heritage Foundation had been floating around for years.

Truth be told, the Foundation didn't repudiate their previous white papers on the subject until they learned the Prez was considering incorporating their ideas into the final plan.

Nor did every other Republican who had advocated GREATER PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

And Sen. Brown had voted FOR the Mass plan while serving in the state legislature.

In the end, for the GOP, it wasn't about the principle, it was about the politics. That's why they lost.

What's your answer for that? (silence)

[blackcrossfire07]

Originally Posted by Jesus_Christler

Good on showing your ignorance, B.

I tried to give your Republican friends some credit and you take a dump on me.

Mitt actually got his ideas from proposals the Heritage Foundation had been floating around for years.

Truth be told, the Foundation didn't repudiate their previous white papers on the subject until they learned the Prez was considering incorporating their ideas into the final plan.

Nor did every other Republican who had advocated GREATER PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

And Sen. Brown had voted FOR the Mass plan while serving in the state legislature.

In the end, for the GOP, it wasn't about the principle, it was about the politics. That's why they lost.

What's your answer for that? (silence)

I can not speak for Romney or Brown. I can't verify that Brown voted for anything. But the fact is Mass people voted for Brown because he was againt Obamacare. You are talking about a majority of people that tend to be liberal. That is why he won. The voice of the people spoke but Congress did not listen.

You don't pass a plan and jam it through the system simply because it is the best they could do and get away with. Republicans wanted to negotiate and make it the best reform they could but the dems didn't want to listen. Now we are all screwed.

[blackcrossfire07]

Originally Posted by AlanH

We have the best health care in the world? Well if you define "best" as "most expensive" you're right. If you define it by lowest infant mortality, it's not the best. If you define it by amount of people covered, it's not the best. if you define it by hightest life expectancy, it's not the best. Fact is we spend the most & get the least.

I think you are watching too many Michael Moore movies. I would like to see hard facts to prove we don't have the best medical doctors in the world. Also look at the cancer death rate of the US vs other countries. I am pretty positive you will find we have the lowest death rate among cancer victims. Our current healthcare situation is fast and effective. If you need treatment you get it right away. No delays! Under the new plan there will be delays... with any government system there are delays and they will put a process in place that will slow things down. Examine every government run program or office in the US and you will know what I am talking about!

It will be like all those rebate programs. Pay 300 dollars now and get 200 back.... but you need to wait 4-6 weeks for delivery! Fill out the form and mail it in. Then it never comes. You have to call a million times to remind them otherwise they hope you will forget.
NO THANKS>>> I WOULD RATHER PAY THE CURRENT PRICES AND STICK WITH WHAT I HAVE.

By the way, everyone that goes to the hospital emergency room in the USA will get treated. Not even an illegal alien would get rejected. This is how it has always been. So reform what??????

Can't drink coke... to much sugar. Can't eat Pizza... to many carbs. Can't have your favorite pastry because it tastes like crap (no trans fat oils). Can't play football with your friends over 35 years old cause you may break a leg. Don't take this medicine... works great but too expensive. You must take this vacine because they won't treat your flu. There is so much more they can do but need I go on? This is government takeover of your life. Deny it all you want. Just wait and you will soon see what I am talking about. It will happen and you will say "Black Cross was right". You just opened up a door that allows them to F**** with your lives and take away your freedom of choice. Enjoy what you have now because it will be gone.

[mdaniels4]

Originally Posted by AlanH

Yes we need tort reform! how about that, we agree on something! But it isn't enough. Not by a long shot. Costs have to be controlled.

No, of course there are no death panels. Hey how about that, two things! But there are people who determine what health care you will get, or at least what will be paid for by your insurance company, which for many is the same thing. I have had necessary coverage denied, and had to go to court and force the insurance company to pay.

We have the best health care in the world? Well if you define "best" as "most expensive" you're right. If you define it by lowest infant mortality, it's not the best. If you define it by amount of people covered, it's not the best. if you define it by hightest life expectancy, it's not the best. Fact is we spend the most & get the least.

How do you figure the government is putting private insurance companies out of business? There is no public option in the bill. There are new rules for the industry, but it's all still private.

It isn't the bill I really wanted either, and the things that concern me are more immediate and real, such as where the premuims will go, and what employers will change in their offerings.

The Republicans could have been much more effective than they were in this debate and what came to pass. Instead, because they couldn't be in charge, they threw a colossal temper tantrum, folded their tent, and went home. Shame on them for not stepping up. Want to blame someone for this, blame your own party. They forfeited the game.

You've made some good points, Alan. The repubs should have stepped up to the plate, but because they're all part of this goofy club they've got going here, they chose not to, which is why I, like Franc, advocate removing them all and going back to farmers and squirrel hunters to be my representatives.

I think the commonality here is to get lawyers out of here, via tort reform, via "legislators" via lobbying etc. This is where I really see most of the problems coming from. They know how to word such junk to obfuscate their meanings, and they do it to serve themselves, and their professional union. And trust me on this, the Trial Lawyer's Association is one of the biggest private corporations you will ever find.

[Franc Rauscher]

Originally Posted by blackcrossfire07

I think you are watching too many Michael Moore movies. I would like to see hard facts to prove we don't have the best medical doctors in the world. Also look at the cancer death rate of the US vs other countries. I am pretty positive you will find we have the lowest death rate among cancer victims. Our current healthcare situation is fast and effective. If you need treatment you get it right away. No delays! Under the new plan there will be delays... with any government system there are delays and they will put a process in place that will slow things down. Look at every government run program in the US and you will experience what I am talking about!

It will be like all those rebate programs. Pay 300 dollars now and get 200 back.... but you need to wait 4-6 weeks for delivery! Fill out the form and mail it in. Then it never comes. You have to call a million times to remind them otherwise they hope you will forget.
NO THANKS>>> I WOULD RATHER PAY THE CURRENT PRICES AND STICK WITH WHAT I HAVE.

By the way, everyone that goes to the hospital emergency room in the USA will get treated. Not even an illegal alien would get rejected. This is how it has always been. So reform what??????

Can't drink coke... too much sugar. Can't eat Pizza... too many carbs. Can't have your favorite pastry because it tastes like crap (no trans fat oils). Can't play football with your friends over 35 years old cause you may break a leg. Don't take this medicine... works great but too expensive. You must take this vacine because they won't treat your flu. There is so much more they can do but need I go on? This is government takeover of your life. Deny it all you want. Just wait and you will soon see what I am talking about. It will happen and you will say "Black Cross was right". You just opened up a door that allows them to F**** with your lives and takes away your freedom of choice. Enjoy what you have now because it will be gone.

You have proposed scenarios that may happen but are unprovable as yet and frankly unlikely. You seem to think this was about our health care. it wasn't.

It certainly isn't about death panels either. That is plain and simple fearmongering.


It is about power. Power to protect you from yourself and the government from your powerful excercise of free will.

It is about the source of individual power. The right to earn and own property

Consider, now the IRS can audit your health care. They find anything in your compliance to that statute and they can then legally open the door to investigate anything else. The IRS will not ration your health care, they will just take your property.

Think finances. You or your children could have a student loan? You will now have it with a government who can decide upon whom to loan, whom to forclose, whom to pursue legaly before the "grace " period allows forgiveness, whom to favor with terms, all entirely based on the current affirmative action policies or PC terms. From whom will they take real property and give tothe state?

How will they socialy engineer in the future? Same as the past, they will redistribute "property" or access to property

That can and will happen, based on past practices of the government.

The very Hook or crooked "whatever it takes process" used to defy the will of the people to bring this stinky fish meal, reprocessed textured vegatable protein, sausage to law shows the audacity
of the technocrats and what principles they will sacriuice to get their party's will done.

Some 9 years ago,in a well prepared column on Madison's birthday, George F Will spoke of the Madison's concerns over a potential problem with the Democrate/Republic system the founders were devising. To him(Madison), the worst result of politics was Tyranny. Tyranny of the majority. How can that be avoided? By preventing the existance of a homogeneous majority that would be stable, durable, and potentialy tyrannical! How can this be prevented? By the cultivation of factions, so that majorities will be unstable andshort lived coalitions of minorities. Cultivtion of factions is a function of an "extensive" Republic.

The current administration solved this problem by arm twisting and bribery which allowed the logic of the founder's plan to be short circuited. And thus, corrupted.

The only thing standing in the way would be one of Madisons crowning acheivments, the Bill of rights. Let us hope the judicial branch remembers their duty to the law and those who created it.

And those who swore to protect and preserve it, with their very lives.


roadster with a stick

BTW I have this column framed and hung on my office wall to remind me of the purpose of extreme fringe idiot groups contributing their pains and pressures on the system. It tends to bring some reason back to my judgements of these @ssholes.......................................... ....... and my blood pressure down.

[AlanH]

Originally Posted by blackcrossfire07

I think you are watching too many Michael Moore movies. I would like to see hard facts to prove we don't have the best medical doctors in the world. Also look at the cancer death rate of the US vs other countries. I am pretty positive you will find we have the lowest death rate among cancer victims. Our current healthcare situation is fast and effective. If you need treatment you get it right away. No delays!

Spoken like someone who has never been sick! I just had to wait 2 weeks to get into the hospital, and I have excellent insurance. The no delay scenario only happens in emergencies.

Originally Posted by blackcrossfire07

By the way, everyone that goes to the hospital emergency room in the USA will get treated. Not even an illegal alien would get rejected. This is how it has always been. So reform what??????

So let me get this straight...just don't buy insurance, and if you get sick, go to the emergency room, and let the government pay for it. Is that what you're advocating? Wouldn't that make you one of those freeloading types sucking up the government's money? The ones you're so down on? I'd think any good Republican would be of the opinion that people should accept responsibility for themselves, and pay their own way. What a contradiction you are!

Originally Posted by blackcrossfire07

It will happen and you will say "Black Cross was right". You just opened up a door that allows them to F**** with your lives and take away your freedom of choice. Enjoy what you have now because it will be gone.

Not much danger of that!

[bmorgan]

Originally Posted by AlanH

The Republicans could have been much more effective than they were in this debate and what came to pass. Instead, because they couldn't be in charge, they threw a colossal temper tantrum, folded their tent, and went home. Shame on them for not stepping up. Want to blame someone for this, blame your own party. They forfeited the game.

It is easy to say "Shame on them" when it is a Democratic bill. Do you say the same thing for your party when they engage in partisan politics? It is a two way street my friend. Why can't we all demand that both parties stop the bullshit partisan ***-for-tat?

[AlanH]

Originally Posted by bmorgan

It is easy to say "Shame on them" when it is a Democratic bill. Do you say the same thing for your party when they engage in partisan politics? It is a two way street my friend. Why can't we all demand that both parties stop the bullshit partisan ***-for-tat?

Never said it wasn't, and yes partisan politics is a two way street. Both sides do it, and both sides have come up with very one sided legislation that served not us but their agenda at the time.

Yes it was a democartic bill, by default. The Republican response to overtures was: Scrap the whole thing and start over. Something they knew would be refused. They gambled that the dems would remain fractured and unable to round up the votes. They were wrong. They should have dealt. We'd have gotten a better bill if they had. So damn right shame on them.

[rush549]

Originally Posted by AlanH

Yes we need tort reform! how about that, we agree on something! But it isn't enough. Not by a long shot. Costs have to be controlled.

No, of course there are no death panels. Hey how about that, two things! But there are people who determine what health care you will get, or at least what will be paid for by your insurance company, which for many is the same thing. I have had necessary coverage denied, and had to go to court and force the insurance company to pay.

We have the best health care in the world? Well if you define "best" as "most expensive" you're right. If you define it by lowest infant mortality, it's not the best. If you define it by amount of people covered, it's not the best. if you define it by hightest life expectancy, it's not the best. Fact is we spend the most & get the least.

How do you figure the government is putting private insurance companies out of business? There is no public option in the bill. There are new rules for the industry, but it's all still private.

It isn't the bill I really wanted either, and the things that concern me are more immediate and real, such as where the premuims will go, and what employers will change in their offerings.

The Republicans could have been much more effective than they were in this debate and what came to pass. Instead, because they couldn't be in charge, they threw a colossal temper tantrum, folded their tent, and went home. Shame on them for not stepping up. Want to blame someone for this, blame your own party. They forfeited the game.

Have you noticed that every single thing Republicans came up with for reform were trickle down. This being a perfect example. Lets put our people in harms way by limiting their ability to sue. Thereby saving the health care industry money. Where is the reform there? You honestly think a industry that makes 3% profits combined with 22% overhead is going to actually give the public that whopping 2% savings they got. That's 2% that the health care industry will have no obligation to return to it's customers. So why would they? Yet this is still more than Republicans offered us in it's last 8 years in power. Which was nothing. Yeah. They sure have our interests at heart alright!!!

[rush549]

I can imagine you find my opinions to be a big problem. Cause your brain has been trained to think far to the right. It's difficult to understand things that aren't deeply twisted to fit into your corporatist minds view of the world. You want to see the world I envision? You need only turn back your political clock around thirty five years. Back when Republican views were right about where Progressive views are now. Don't believe me. Go read some of Ronald Reagan's speeches from the fifties. I guess everyone was pretty socialist back then huh?

I have not denied that. Several times I have stated that the middle is way to the right now. True Progressives are not in that group. President Obama isn't a progressive either. His track record thus far have proven that. He is a corporatist Conservative Democrat.

Considering Unions are down to 1/5 their original strength? I would say no. Acorn is dead. As for the rest. You act as if this all started when President Obama took office. Yet these things can be blamed on the corporatist mentality as well. Including the death knell of the unions.

Unions are corporatist? That's a new one. If they had power over our government they wouldn't be dying such a slow death. Fact is, the corporatist thugs have knee capped the unions long ago.

I guess everyone from the thirties through the sixties were batsh!t crazy then. And thanks, I think I will believe what I want. And I will also continue to be the rash you can't help but scratch at.

[blackcrossfire07]

Quote From Rush... President Obama isn't a progressive either. His track record thus far have proven that. He is a corporatist Conservative Democrat.
Considering Unions are down to 1/5 their original strength? I would say no. Acorn is dead. As for the rest. You act as if this all started when President Obama took office. Yet these things can be blamed on the corporatist mentality as well. Including the death knell of the unions.


Correction---Obama is a Socialist and a Chicago Thug. His record so far has proven that. The only thing that makes him a capitalist is he is buying every private company he can and turning them into government companies. That my friend is what people in Europe call Socialism.

And Acorn is not dead. Just repackaged under a different name. And Obama has already met with their new organization

Like I said... a Chicago Thug and can't be trusted. Anti-White and hangs around with terrorists. Add Socialism to the mix! You are proud of him.

[mdaniels4]

Originally Posted by blackcrossfire07

Quote From Rush... President Obama isn't a progressive either. His track record thus far have proven that. He is a corporatist Conservative Democrat.
Considering Unions are down to 1/5 their original strength? I would say no. Acorn is dead. As for the rest. You act as if this all started when President Obama took office. Yet these things can be blamed on the corporatist mentality as well. Including the death knell of the unions.


Correction---Obama is a Socialist and a Chicago Thug. His record so far has proven that. The only thing that makes him a capitalist is he is buying every private company he can and turning them into government companies. That my friend is what people in Europe call Socialism.

And Acorn is not dead. Just repackaged under a different name. And Obama has already met with their new organization

Like I said... a Chicago Thug and can't be trusted. Anti-White and hangs around with terrorists. Add Socialism to the mix! You are proud of him.

ditto. Acorn is NOT dead. It HAS changed its' name, AND the Presdident has discussed their funding with them. They will be the Presidents Achilles heel. Rush Just wait for this one.

[Jesus_Christler]

Originally Posted by blackcrossfire07

I can not speak for Romney or Brown. I can't verify that Brown voted for anything. But the fact is Mass people voted for Brown because he was againt Obamacare.

Nobody's asking you to speak for Brown and Romney. I only asked you to look at the similarities between the Mass and federal health plans and make a semi-coherent statement.

I supplied you the link to the article where Scott Brown in his own words justified his vote for the Massachusetts plan.

I also showed you how Republicans had been talking up the ideas in both plans from the 1980s until last year, when Obama decided to incorporate some of them into his plan. So,

here's your sign

FWIW voters chose Brown because Martha Coakley ran a poor campaign.

[rush549]

Originally Posted by Jesus_Christler

Nobody's asking you to speak for Brown and Romney. I only asked you to look at the similarities between the Mass and federal health plans and make a semi-coherent statement.

I supplied you the link to the article where Scott Brown in his own words justified his vote for the Massachusetts plan.

I also showed you how Republicans had been talking up the ideas in both plans from the 1980s until last year, when Obama decided to incorporate some of them into his plan. So,



FWIW voters chose Brown because Martha Coakley ran a poor campaign.

This cat already has more signs than anyone could possibly carry.

[Franc Rauscher]

The suggestion that some Republican ideas were included in the current health care plan is like saying" what's a matter with the sausage, that dog was a perfectly healthy animal when we through it in the mixer."

In other words, how does that make it any better?

Everyone one knows that MSG gives you headaches but makes food taste better. Actually, it only fools the brain into thinking it tastes better. I used to work for a company that made sausage. We used MSG all the time. The phrase used in formulating the sausage was "enough MSG and even Bull Sh!t will taste exceptable"

Wonder how many truck loads of MSG are in this HC bill. We find out more BS is in it everyday.Still some think it tastes good.
I tell you this, the headaches will be massive.And when the left leadership says it's GWB's fault, you Koolaid guys well nod in agreement.

The bill sucks "well, your side tried to do it too"

The bill sucks, "well your side is just the party of no!"

The bill sucks, Well, your side is just racists!"

The bill sucks, "You just don't want the poor to have health care!"

The bill sucks. "Guys no one can say they are happy with the Health care bill. Not even the President or Congress will say it."
They are just happy it passed. That they say openly.

The bill still sucks.

That's because it isn't and never was about health care.

How come it has the IRS so involved?
How Come it has student loans, ie personal credit, involved?
How come it has a national guard plan to conscript doctors and place them under control of the White House?
How come a congressman who is too dumb to know that Guam won't tip over and capsize, still gets a better Health care plan than he voted into law for you or me?

I repeatedly ask these questions. The answers I get are"well uh......... your guys did it too!

No they didn't. My guys fought for and created a simple small effective government, an entire government, on 5 pages. This piece of cr@p is over 2005 pages.