no electrical
 

Hi all,
I am having a weird issue with my Crossfire; which started a few days ago.
listed the events to keep it simple.

1. A few weeks ago, i noticed that the seat adjustment controls would not work with car off or after starting.
2. the adjusters would start working out the blue after trying them from time to time.
3. checked the fuses and noticed that they were not blown, but were unresponsive to the test light.
4. sense it was not a big issue, I put it on the bench to deal with later.
5. a few days ago the car suddenly stalled at the light; but i was able to start it right up.
6. on the same day the same issue occurred about 15 minutes later, and yes it started up afterwards.
7. the next day it happened again while backing out of my driveway, and yes it started back up.
8. the rest of the day went fine after that without incident.
9. however, earlier this morning the car shut off; but his time I had no electricity to the car. No dash lights, no response to the alarm, absolutely no power whatsoever.
9a. I checked all fuses and found none blown.
9b. after about 30 min, and checking around the wires in the RCM box I noticed the alarm indicator light started flashing.
9c. car started right up after that, so i quickly drove home.
10. I tested all the fuses and relay connections and found nothing blown or failed outside of the two 30amp seat fuses.
11. I replaced them and now they pass testing (strange).

Nevertheless, the issue with the random shutoff and the complete fail of electrical power today is baffling. can anyone assist?

Re: no electrical
 

Sounds suspiciously like a corroded frame ground for the negative battery cable to me.

Re: no electrical
 

Interesting thought, let me go through the link you provide.

Re: no electrical
 

It's right in front of the battery on the fender well.
Clean it up real good with a wire brush, you can even reinstall with dielectric grease to prevent future corrosion.
Clean the battery posts and cable clamps too.

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I looked at it and I'm not seeing any corrosion or damage, it looks very clean.

Re: no electrical
 

Then (if you haven't already) unsnap the cover off the little box next to the battery. You will find three fuses in there, pay most attention to the 200A one - is feeds the entire car except for hte cooling fan and ABS system. Make sure the nuts are tight on that fuse!!!!!

Now, I am assuming (as George is) that we can take your words VERY LITERALLY when you say "No power at all". That means no dash lights, no buzzers, no radio illumination or display, no dome/head/tail lights at all. IF any of these powered on at the time, you don't really have "no power at all". This is very important, as we can't diagnose electrical issues unless the descriptoin of what was going on is 100% dead-on accurate.

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Yes that is correct; I had absolutely no dash lights, do dome lights, no door chimes, no radio, no alarm ( no responce at all to remote). Nada, nothing!!

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Gotta be battery, battery cables/terminals - or something that Iv'e never seen before: The 200 amp fuse in that little box is loose or internally bad. I just don't see how you can loose all of THAT any other way.

Well, if the nut is loose on the TB strip at the back of the underhood fuse box (Driver's side, it's UNDER the fuses, you pry up hte front of the fuse panel, pull it up and out, and the distribution strip is at the back of the box. There are, I think, three junction points with all connductors held tight by a nut). But again, never heard of them coming loose but you never know.

I just don't see any other way.

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The blowing of fuses can sometimes be a sign of overvoltage - if the battery came disconnected (I'm thinking by corrosion or loose connection) it is possible the alternator's regulator could not keep system voltage stable, or the rectified peaks of the alternator output exceeded safe value - this could cause fuses to blow.

More importantly, such peaks can cause damage to the PTCM, SKREEM, etc. THAT means, FIX THIS before driving the car again. Skreems are $800 and PTCMs are over $2000.

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We have seen cases where the battery cables have failed inside the insulation.
How long have you had the car, how old is the car, the mileage, how old is the battery and is there any sign of corrosion on the cables where they exit the post clamps?
Can you get the battery tested? I had a battery fail in less than two years this winter while it sat in the garage. I doubt it is the battery really.

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100/80 is right. I had an old truck years ago that had corroded it's copper wires INSIDE the insulation - the only fix was new cables. Even for our cars, you can buy replacement cables anywhere.

My Graphite's ground cable (buying a generic 15" one) was $11 at Advance Auto. The other cable will run about $40, again, by buying a generic one with about a 40" heavy and 10" smaller cable. (Again, just get a generic cable of lengths that will reach the junction near the battery (light lead) and starter (heavy lead).

I really think 100/80 is probably right here.

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I can your point; it's hard to imagine what else would cause the lost of all power. I'll be running a trace of the positive and negative cable back to their end point to make sure nothing is loose.

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I didn't have any fuse problems other than the one with the seats. strangely it was not blown, but it did fail testing.

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I may change the cabling just in case; based on what your saying.
I have had the car for 5 years now; it's a 2005 crossfire with a little over 100,000 miles. the battery is 6 months old and I did change the terminal clamps when I got the new battery, so no corrosion there. But you could be right about the cable (specifically the negative cable)

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You said you changed the terminal clamps when you put a new battery in, I would pay very close attention to where the cables go into those clamps and check to make sure they are clean tight and making good contact, I don't trust those aftermarket clamps it is best to only use battery cables that are soldered to the clamps. When I was much younger I put a set of those on a Mercury Cougar that I owned, I thought they were tight but ended up melting the negative post off the battery because they were not making good contact. I learned a valuable lesson from that and have never used them since.

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So update, I have checked all wiring and followed advice and swapped for soldered clamps. and and cleaned any connections I thought suspect.

However now I'm getting a hesitant start; like multiple cranks before initial start..

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Is this an improvement or not? I cannot really tell from your posts.
If the fuses failed a conductivity test then they were blown, these fuses cannot be seen to be blown in some cases.
Is this an auto or manual transmission?
New or not have you had the battery tested?

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Ok, well based on my original post, I did outline the original issue and how it progressed. When I mentioned the fuse issue, I mentioned there were no physical indications of it being blown, although it failed the coductivity test. Hence, I swapped the two fuses related to the automatic seats. However, I mentioned the fuses as additional information, as a means to see if anything else other than the possible cabling issue could be affecting my cars electrical.

So to answer; yes this is a partial improvement as the car has not died on me since swapping the terminals. However, what I am getting now is a hesitant start when I try to start the first time after it has sit for a bit. So if I try to start it will crank for about 2 to 3 seconds before finally starting.

What I noticed also, is if I try to start the first time during the multiple cranks and turn the key to off and then retry it will start normally.

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I didn't bother reading back to see if you had replaced the battery, but I will say that even if you have, this could be an internal fracture in the battery subject to temperature or vibration.
Have you connected a multimeter across the battery posts while experiencing one of those problematic starts ? ( you could get on of those inexpensive cigarette lighter digital voltmeters )

I use this one :

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Hesitant starts can be a symptom of the lack of fuel. After you leave the car off for awhile and then turn the key to the on position, before the start position and leave it for a fifteen seconds with just the fuel pump humming and then try to start it, does it fire up and keep running OK?
If so then that may well point to fuel pump or fuel filter problems.