WOW ... stop the rust while you can ...
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Re: WOW ... stop the rust while you can ...
Now that I'm totally paranoid, I checked my '05 tonight and both sides looked pretty good. No wetness, which there shouldn't be because it's never seen a wet wash OR rain in the 6 months I've owned it. And no rust...yet!
Car had 6,500 miles when I bought it and the finish was perfect, so I'm assuming that it had been garaged since new, and the previous owner took excellent care of it...but ya never know. Car now has 8,300 miles.
I don't plan on ever getting it wet if I can help it.
But I'll periodically check it, just to make sure.
Thanks for the sticky and heads up on this problem.
Peace
Paul
Car had 6,500 miles when I bought it and the finish was perfect, so I'm assuming that it had been garaged since new, and the previous owner took excellent care of it...but ya never know. Car now has 8,300 miles.
I don't plan on ever getting it wet if I can help it.
But I'll periodically check it, just to make sure.
Thanks for the sticky and heads up on this problem.
Peace
Paul
Re: WOW ... stop the rust while you can ...
Still winter here, but spring is coming. I will be looking to see if I have the rust problem when I get my coupe uncovered. I'm thinking about coating/filling the channel behind the weather strip with clear silicon adhesive caulk before re-installing the strip. I think that will seal the area from any water or moisture getting behind the strip. However, it will become more difficult to remove in the future, although not impossible? Of course, I plan to treat the rust with an inhibitor first if there is any, or at a minimum clean both the strip and paint first.
Last edited by corfire; 03-07-2008 at 11:55 PM.
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Re: WOW ... stop the rust while you can ...
I've been looking into this problem; as here in UK we have prolonged rain and very salty roads for most of the year. The water runs down the vertical rubber seal between the small side window and the main side window, and continues to run down the door on the inside of the door rubber seal. You can often see where the water has tracked down near the dood latch when you open the door. Water is trapped on the inside of the door rubber and collects in the channel where rust forms cos' it has nowhere to drain. I proved this by filling a watering can with water and added a tiny bit of water based green dye and poured on my car. There was lots of green water trapped in the channel where rust appears.
I'm coming up with a little mod to allow the water to drain off properly. This is an example of one of the few bits of crap design in the car, but we can get round it!
Cheers Steve - UK
I'm coming up with a little mod to allow the water to drain off properly. This is an example of one of the few bits of crap design in the car, but we can get round it!
Cheers Steve - UK
Last edited by Steve - UK; 03-31-2008 at 12:52 PM.
Re: WOW ... stop the rust while you can ...
Unfortunately after my dealer gave me the run around for 4 months, the rep actually looked at the rust and said "its an environmental caused rust" so Chrysler isn't going to fix it. This is hard to believe because the rust is under the weather stripping, which i explained, but still the dealer and rep refuse to fix it. Anyone have any other suggestions to get chrysler to fix this??? I called the chrysler customer service ctr. many times, all they did was to call the dealership and they said the district rep has more authority than them and they can't do anything. What ever you do Don't Buy a car or use the service from Grand Prix Chrysler in hicksville. They are the worst dealership i have ever dealt with. After purchasing 3 vehicles from them, they still refused to help me out with this issue. Also they actually dented my crossfire when I had it there for service. They still have yet to fix that dent. Any suggestions appreciated!
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Re: WOW ... stop the rust while you can ...
Since this thread has been going on since last year this should be used as documentation of a systemic problem not related to poor care on your part. Take them to small claims court and try to get redress there. Make them pay with their time and public embarrassment. Maybe they will then give in and fix this. It will not cost them that much to fix it anyway. I do not understand why they are so resistant to doing the right thing. Also write to the local newspaper and maybe they will do a story on it. Also write to the better business bureau. If you make enough noise maybe they will give in. You have to show you are persistent and will not give up. I am sure others can come up with even better ideas than mine. Good luck and keep us posted if anything more comes of this.
Re: WOW ... stop the rust while you can ...
Just joined the forum not to long ago, and this is the first thread I have read. Yea I am paranoid now as well hah!
Gonna have to check it ASAP, I have experience with bodywork and mechanical work so this shouldn't be any problem for me. Just need to find the time
-Chris
Gonna have to check it ASAP, I have experience with bodywork and mechanical work so this shouldn't be any problem for me. Just need to find the time
-Chris
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Re: WOW ... stop the rust while you can ...
Yes its a very important point that the corrosion is taking place on the inside of the rubber weather seal which proves that the inside of the car NOT water tight, and water can freely enter the car and gather in there - we need to come up with a quick mod to fix this. Watch this space!
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Re: WOW ... stop the rust while you can ...
I took a look at my drivers side on Sunday and saw a lot of moisture. I also saw great gobs of what looked and felt like grease all over that section. As if the area was covered in it prior to adding the foam seal. I haven't done anything else yet. I hate the thought of removing the foam entirely, I'm afraid I'll have a hard time putting it back together.
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Re: WOW ... stop the rust while you can ...
If the car had a Merc badge on it, would something have been done about it over a production run from 2003 to 2008?
I reckon the big issue here is that the location of the trapped water is in the interior of the car (with the doors shut). If water gathers there when the car is hosed down or its out in the rain, that proves that water gets in past the the rubber weather seal that is suppossed to keep it out. In an earlier post I described how I had found the route of the water and how it gathered there in the "chanel" between the weather seal and the door panel. You can replicate this by drying off the area and then running the hose down the side of the car
where the side windows meet. Its design flaw which you won't find on even the cheapest
modern cars. Im going to see my dealer to ask;
a: why is water getting into my car ?
b: is that something that I should expect from this brand ?
c: what are you going to do about it ?
Depending on the outcome, I may have to do my own mod to the car to prevent this happening; this will involve adding a small additional piece of weather seal near the top of the door. I'm lucky that mine has no signs of rust, but we have to keep the water out for the prob to go away. Meanwhile I try to keep the area treated, as I use it as my daily commute and cover around 300 miles per week at the moment.
Steve - UK
I reckon the big issue here is that the location of the trapped water is in the interior of the car (with the doors shut). If water gathers there when the car is hosed down or its out in the rain, that proves that water gets in past the the rubber weather seal that is suppossed to keep it out. In an earlier post I described how I had found the route of the water and how it gathered there in the "chanel" between the weather seal and the door panel. You can replicate this by drying off the area and then running the hose down the side of the car
where the side windows meet. Its design flaw which you won't find on even the cheapest
modern cars. Im going to see my dealer to ask;
a: why is water getting into my car ?
b: is that something that I should expect from this brand ?
c: what are you going to do about it ?
Depending on the outcome, I may have to do my own mod to the car to prevent this happening; this will involve adding a small additional piece of weather seal near the top of the door. I'm lucky that mine has no signs of rust, but we have to keep the water out for the prob to go away. Meanwhile I try to keep the area treated, as I use it as my daily commute and cover around 300 miles per week at the moment.
Steve - UK
Last edited by Steve - UK; 04-20-2008 at 07:39 AM.
Re: WOW ... stop the rust while you can ...
Originally Posted by antonio311
Unfortunately after my dealer gave me the run around for 4 months, the rep actually looked at the rust and said "its an environmental caused rust" so Chrysler isn't going to fix it. This is hard to believe because the rust is under the weather stripping, which i explained, but still the dealer and rep refuse to fix it. Anyone have any other suggestions to get chrysler to fix this??? I called the chrysler customer service ctr. many times, all they did was to call the dealership and they said the district rep has more authority than them and they can't do anything. What ever you do Don't Buy a car or use the service from Grand Prix Chrysler in hicksville. They are the worst dealership i have ever dealt with. After purchasing 3 vehicles from them, they still refused to help me out with this issue. Also they actually dented my crossfire when I had it there for service. They still have yet to fix that dent. Any suggestions appreciated!
I went out of my way to find out who the NA VP of customer service was and his email address. Then I crafted a very careful, VERY polite letter to the VP of customer relations explaining that I had many BMW's in the past and that I am not angry at BMW per se just disappointed with this particular one. I also explained very calmly why I believed the area reps' decision was wrong and why BMW should step up to the plate.
Again, this letter has to very calm, factual and to the point. AND it has to be addressed directly to the heap of customer relations.
In my case it worked. Not 4 hours after he received my letter I got a call back from the very same first level customer relations guy (basically a telephone drone) explaining that BMW is rethinking their view and that they will get in touch with me the next day. And they did! The next day someone higher up the food chain started communicating with me and we finally came to the same conclusion.
The same tactics could be applied here.
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Re: WOW ... stop the rust while you can ...
Originally Posted by apleschu
I had a similar problem with a BMW last year, when the area rep was a complete and utter moron, and the first level Customer service rep decided to decline my request. Here is what worked for me:
I went out of my way to find out who the NA VP of customer service was and his email address. Then I crafted a very careful, VERY polite letter to the VP of customer relations explaining that I had many BMW's in the past and that I am not angry at BMW per se just disappointed with this particular one. I also explained very calmly why I believed the area reps' decision was wrong and why BMW should step up to the plate.
Again, this letter has to very calm, factual and to the point. AND it has to be addressed directly to the heap of customer relations.
In my case it worked. Not 4 hours after he received my letter I got a call back from the very same first level customer relations guy (basically a telephone drone) explaining that BMW is rethinking their view and that they will get in touch with me the next day. And they did! The next day someone higher up the food chain started communicating with me and we finally came to the same conclusion.
The same tactics could be applied here.
I went out of my way to find out who the NA VP of customer service was and his email address. Then I crafted a very careful, VERY polite letter to the VP of customer relations explaining that I had many BMW's in the past and that I am not angry at BMW per se just disappointed with this particular one. I also explained very calmly why I believed the area reps' decision was wrong and why BMW should step up to the plate.
Again, this letter has to very calm, factual and to the point. AND it has to be addressed directly to the heap of customer relations.
In my case it worked. Not 4 hours after he received my letter I got a call back from the very same first level customer relations guy (basically a telephone drone) explaining that BMW is rethinking their view and that they will get in touch with me the next day. And they did! The next day someone higher up the food chain started communicating with me and we finally came to the same conclusion.
The same tactics could be applied here.
Re: WOW ... stop the rust while you can ...
Originally Posted by stlouistrucker
What was the conclusion and how will BMW fix the design flaw?
But I cannot impress enough if you do that just HOW important it is to be overly polite and completely factual. The higher up the foodchain you go the faster you can loose their interest and if you come across as a trouble maker, as a yelling redneck your letter lands in the electronic trash bin very quickly.
You have about 3 lines to get an executives attention and make them WANT to read your letter. If you miss that window you lost out and in that case it's YOU loosing out, not Chrysler. Or BMW as it was in my case.
I guess in the case of rusting doors one can easily make a case to get the doors replaced/repaired ESPECIALLY if you are still within warranty. This means: if you have rust, bring your car to the dealer and complain. Have them look at it, even if it very minor rust. Thing is: Once you complained it is in the system, and it is in the system exactly WHEN and at what milage you complained. In such a case documentation is everything. Because that is also something they will immediately look at in their system. How often was the car in the dealership and for what problem. If you brought the car to the dealership and demanded fixing a couple of times the times quickly add up. Especially in the first year(s) of service. You will have to read your states lemon law, but there are certain things dealers(and the manufacturers) don't like. E.g. In TX if a vehicle during the first 24 months/24kmiles is out of service for ANY reason and a serious defect still exists the vehicle becomes a lemon. Out of service means if you bring your car to the dealership and they have it there for two weeks before someone looks at it they just wasted two weeks of your lemon law timeline. There are many other and many more considerations, suffice it to say documentation (in the dealers systems) is everything if it comes to playing hardball.
Disclaimer: I am NOT a lawyer nor did I play on TV, nor did I sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Re: WOW ... stop the rust while you can ...
I am just glad this issue was identified so I can keep an eye on this area and pay it special attention on a regular basis. I only recently bought my car. I bought it as a new 06 and only have about 3,000 miles on it. It has sat most of the winter and just now back out on the road. No sign of rust so far.
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Re: WOW ... stop the rust while you can ...
Andrew, I know this post has been around for some time. I thought I should at least check the door seals and found the start of rust. I ordered the "por 15" today. I ordered the silver color since my car is black and did not want to miss any spot. I intend on keeping this car a long time. Thanks for the post and the help. I would not have ever thought of this with out the forum and your research.
Thanks again
Thanks again
Re: WOW ... stop the rust while you can ...
Originally Posted by +fireamx
I've checked under the rubber gasket of my doors several times since Andrew first made his post back in December. Each time I found the area to be damp, with alot of soap residue that had a orangish tint to it but I never noticed any actual rust. So I'd just wipe it as clean as I could, spray some silicone on it, and replace the rubber gasket.
Saturday was such a bright sunny day, I pulled my car out of the garage (facing north) and open the doors and pulled down the rubber gaskets. Since the bright autumn sun is sitting lower in the Southern sky now, it totally lit up the entire problem area like I've never seen it before.
After I cleaned off all the soap residue with a 1/2" wide nylon paint brush and some soap and water, I noticed what looked like very slight bubbles under the paint on the vertical section or back side of the through that holds the rubber gasket. They almost looked like "spot welds" as they were lined up directly behind the 7 small "cut outs" on the outer lip of the trough.
I then took a very small flat edge screwdriver and pushed on one of the bubbles, and sure enough, the paint chipped right off. I proceeded to use the screwdriver like a paint scraper and broke open all seven bubbles. Fortunately I was able to scrape the surface rust off, and the metal still seemed to be smooth with no perforation anywhere.
I then cleaned it the best I could, and even used spray-on brake cleaner (hopefully to remove any silicone that was still on the surface) and I coated the bare metal with two coats of Rustoleum "Rust Reformulator". It's suppose to stop rust and make the area safe to paint over.
I haven't decided what kind of paint I'm going to use to seal the area, and I'm still thinking of drilling extra drain holes through the bottom of the entire length of the trough.
The reason I'm bringing this up, is because you may have to look very closely to actually see the bubbles, or any tell tale signs or the start of corrosion. Even on my white car, it was only the bright sun light that enabled me to see the bubbles, when I never saw them before.
Every one of these cars (if they are ever introduced to moister) are going to eventually have this problem. You can bank on it, it's a sure thing.
The very first thing I would do if I was buying a brand new one, or a used one, would be to take it home and address this problem area immediately.
The only way to prevent it from happening is to seal it with some sort of epoxy, or urethane paint (like Por 15, or the Rust Bullet) before it starts, or after you make the inevitable repair.
You can be sure that most serious car enthusiast (aka potential buyers) in the future are going to be well aware of this "Benz Cancer" curse that our cars inadvertently wound up with thanks to their "DNA". So waste no time preventing it from starting on the new cars, or returning on the used ones.
Saturday was such a bright sunny day, I pulled my car out of the garage (facing north) and open the doors and pulled down the rubber gaskets. Since the bright autumn sun is sitting lower in the Southern sky now, it totally lit up the entire problem area like I've never seen it before.
After I cleaned off all the soap residue with a 1/2" wide nylon paint brush and some soap and water, I noticed what looked like very slight bubbles under the paint on the vertical section or back side of the through that holds the rubber gasket. They almost looked like "spot welds" as they were lined up directly behind the 7 small "cut outs" on the outer lip of the trough.
I then took a very small flat edge screwdriver and pushed on one of the bubbles, and sure enough, the paint chipped right off. I proceeded to use the screwdriver like a paint scraper and broke open all seven bubbles. Fortunately I was able to scrape the surface rust off, and the metal still seemed to be smooth with no perforation anywhere.
I then cleaned it the best I could, and even used spray-on brake cleaner (hopefully to remove any silicone that was still on the surface) and I coated the bare metal with two coats of Rustoleum "Rust Reformulator". It's suppose to stop rust and make the area safe to paint over.
I haven't decided what kind of paint I'm going to use to seal the area, and I'm still thinking of drilling extra drain holes through the bottom of the entire length of the trough.
The reason I'm bringing this up, is because you may have to look very closely to actually see the bubbles, or any tell tale signs or the start of corrosion. Even on my white car, it was only the bright sun light that enabled me to see the bubbles, when I never saw them before.
Every one of these cars (if they are ever introduced to moister) are going to eventually have this problem. You can bank on it, it's a sure thing.
The very first thing I would do if I was buying a brand new one, or a used one, would be to take it home and address this problem area immediately.
The only way to prevent it from happening is to seal it with some sort of epoxy, or urethane paint (like Por 15, or the Rust Bullet) before it starts, or after you make the inevitable repair.
You can be sure that most serious car enthusiast (aka potential buyers) in the future are going to be well aware of this "Benz Cancer" curse that our cars inadvertently wound up with thanks to their "DNA". So waste no time preventing it from starting on the new cars, or returning on the used ones.
Well I pulled the rubber gasket out of the trough and inspected the area today, and it seems as though the Rustoleum "Rust Reformulator" kept the entire area sealed and rust free. I noticed no "rust colored" stains anywhere.
I cleaned and dried the area with a hair drier and used tape to mask it off. I then coated it all with a black polyurethane paint to "seal" it again.
If I was to purchase a brand new 08 Crossfire today, the very first thing I would do is pull the door gaskets out, and "seal" that exposed seam with some por15. I firmly believe that would take care of a problem, and if you used the "clear" Por15 I think the whole "problem area" would retain its factory stock appearance.
My advice to every Crossfire owner, why wait for the rust to start? It doesn't matter where you live, if your car is going to get wet (by washing, or rain) the doors are eventually going to rust. There is no way around it. It's really very easy to prevent, and not much harder to fix yourself. It only takes a couple of hours of your time, and the peace of mind from taking care of it yourself is priceless.
Re: WOW ... stop the rust while you can ...
Re: WOW ... stop the rust while you can ...
Originally Posted by corfire
Does anyone have a sure-fire way of getting the gasket back into the channel. I've never felt that I get it back as good as it was originally, and I have tried all of the recommended ways. 
I was a little apprehensive about pulling it out the first time I did it, thinking it won't go back in place, but it does. It's rubber and very pliable. Just work it in, and don't be in a hurry and you shouldn't have any problems.
You know that it's back in place when you have the "griping ridges" that run along the top of the gasket tucked back in out of sight.
Last edited by +fireamx; 06-25-2008 at 11:25 AM.