Yes, this should be in the Brake/Suspension forum.

I'm just trying to save what energy I have left.

For starters, it is 98 today. I'm more than a bit from being a youngster. And the rear of the car is in the sun. I have the rear of the XF raised with my brand new Harbor Freight 3 ton aluminum floor jack, stands under left and right jack points. Left rear tire is off. There ain't no stinkin' bleed screw to be found. There does seem to be one sticking out sideways on the right brake.

Is that it?

A yes or no will suffice.

I've gone through all of the brake pages on the '07 shop manual and there are lots of drawings of the right front, but few on the rear. They do mention a bleed screw (singular) regarding the rear brakes.

 

There is one bleeder screw per caliper if they are OEM calipers, Stop Techs have 2 each

 

The attached has a pic of the rear bleed screw location... Your's may have a cover on it, making it difficult to identify.

https://howtune.com/articles/177-ble...sler-crossfire

Dude - If it's 98 degrees on a Sunday afternoon in sunny CA, you should be out surfing, not bleeding your brakes.

 

Thanks guys. I've always had the mode of panicking (actually heat stroke in this case), then settle down and think about it logically.

I had seen the bleed screw but thought it was a bolt with a metal strap around it, as in 'don't remove'. As soon as I got back from my cool down, it became obvious. I'm not used to sideways bleed screws except on slave cylinders.

I'll add that my brake pedal was (hopefully past tense) going down two thirds of the way down. Not good for stop and go freeway traffic. Otherwise I'd be in my cool 90 degree shop with fans blowing on me while working on a client's car.

I still have the fronts to do. Not sure if either of you had read my brake caliper/pads post in Brakes/Suspension but in that case my MityVac didn't work. I finally ran across my one-way bleed valve and it seems to be working, at least on the rears.

 

I installed Speed-Bleeders all around, they worked great.
( helps to put some really heavy grease on the threads to stop air leakage while bleeding. )

Or, you could get this : http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hydraulic-Br...cab043&vxp=mtr

same principle as speed bleeders, and universal fit.

 

I don't know if your vehicle is a standard, but if it is don't forget to bleed the clutch as well (it ties into the master cylinder reservoir). I missed this one the first time I flushed the brakes and couldn't figure out how I still had dirty/old fluid in the system. I was familiar with older vehicles that had separate reservoirs.

 

Main question at the second to the last paragraph.

RyanB, thanks for bringing up the clutch bleeding. I've been assuming the brakes and clutch used the same reservoir. But this does make sense regarding having a dark looking fluid in the reservoir.

ala_xfire, do you recall what the threads are for the speed bleeders? Eyeballing, they look coarser than the standard pitch. I just buttoned up the wheels so what is the diameter? I'm guessing 5mm.

Here's the situation...Sunday after I finished bleeding the brakes, they were as bad as before. Also to top off the 98 degree day, the new 3 ton floor jack doesn't stay in place. As in the car keeps lowering if I don't have a stand underneath it. Sucked day.

I re-bled on Monday, no better. While today I was just finishing the first (left rear) bleeding, it began raining. Not bad but was still at it when I got the wheel back on, etc. and put it back in the shop.

Now the Big Question: Does the car have to be running when bleeding the brakes? After bleeding the brakes both yesterday and the one today, the brake pedal is solid. Turn the engine on and it goes half-way down.

I do want to add here that I'm in essence doing the same thing as when you have a helper pumping the brake. When helper hears stop!, they hold the pedal down as the bleed screw gets tightened. I simply use a longish 2 x 4 and with some padding, tuck the 2 x 4 up against the pedal and front seat cushion then tighten the bleed screw. Since I'm using a one-way valve on the tubing end in the jar it keeps the fluid from sucking back in. I also use grease around the threads.

 

The engine does not have to be running, and the pedal always goes down a quarter with your foot on the brake when starting the engine.
These cars always have a soft pedal, I do not know why, I wish I did.
I spent time and money to improve the pedal feel and I never got anywhere, it always feels different to my other cars. But the brakes are good at stopping you despite this fact.
I am not too sure I would trust the 2 x 4 not to move a little when leaving the car.

Hydraulic jacks will always let some fluid by the seal, it is this leakage that lubricates the seal edge, some jacks will stay up longer than an identical jack, each bore and seal are slightly different.

 

onehundred80, do you feel that the dual cylinders on the floor jack might break in and get better - or take it back and try another?

My aluminum 1.5 ton Harbor Freight floor jack is pretty rock solid, perhaps losing an inch overnight for instance when holding up a differential.

 

I doubt it will wear in much at all, the other jack may have better designed seals in it. Just add supports and never rely on a jack at all, the seal could just blow and drop.
Remember it is a jack not a support.

 

+ 100,000

NEVER trust a jack. A mistake you will make only once.

A steep learning curve, indeed.

 

What I've been doing when removing the wheels (third time and the brake pedal is no better) is to jack up with the 3ton and use the 1.5ton under the jacking points. As it turns out after putting the rear up on jack-stands is that those wheels are way too unwieldy and heavy for me to just slip over the embossed ring on the rear hubs. I managed, but had to take measures I didn't like.

With the dual jacks under I only raise the wheels off the ground an inch or two. This way I can put the wheel on my upper feet and then wiggle them in and on. Also, I only go under cars with four sturdy jack-stands and check them carefully before crawling under.

New subject, sort of: Is this the access to the clutch MC? Meaning one has to entirely remove the outer wheel well 'splash guard' to get to it?

 

I found that lying on my back by the wheel and lifting it up works, I can see the hub centric ring that way and I get the wheel on with one lift.

 

If I understood correctly, the clutch master cylinder is accessed by removing the kick panel under the dash (top of the clutch pedal). Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

If you are looking to bleed the clutch slave cylinder, there is a rubber rectangular plug (about 3" x 2") on the passenger side of the transmission close to the first catalytic converter. Remove that (it just pulls out) and there is a bleed screw.

Just a side note - I used "house brand" DOT 4 fluid, which was a mistake. After the flush if I drove over 10 minutes without engaging the clutch it became very hard to push and I was afraid the pedal would not come back up at one point. My slave cylinder is probably on the way out, but interesting enough I replaced the fluid with Castrol SRF and have had no issues since. Could be completely unrelated - maybe I just did not bleed the clutch very well the first time around (although I tried 4 separate times), I guess I will find out.

Have you really stomped on the brakes between bleeding them? I don't know why it helps (maybe there is air trapped in the ABS unit), but whenever I bleed brakes I "panic stop" preferably on a slicker surface to get the ABS to engage. I bleed the the lines again and then all is well and I have a tighter pedal. Once again, this could have nothing to do with anything, and I just happen to bleed them correctly on the last attempt - but it seems no matter how much fluid I run through the system I can't get a good pedal the first time.

Lastly, I don't remove the wheels when I bleed the brakes. There is enough room to get in behind them if you have a longer tube. I am using a Mityvac, so I have plenty of tubing. the front wheels you just have to turn to the side you are working on.

I hope some of this helps you,
Ryan