My reference was only about fuel issues, I know yours isn't an SRT. But that is how the car, a fuel injected car will act when starving for fuel. A carbureted car will spit and sputter. A fuel injected car will die out, reengage, die out. Hope you figure it out. Later.

 

OK...I understand and certainly appreciate your input

The issue seems to be getting worse, or at the very least changing: until today, when I reached ~4,200 RPM the engine would completely cut out, but not stall (as if I'd completely let up on the gas), at which point I would actually remove my foot from the gas and let the RPMs decrease to normal.

Today, when it cut out, the RPMs decreased much more gradually, and the AT stayed in the higher gear it had reached before cutting out, and very gradually slowed down...much more gradually than before. It felt almost like a manual transmission at the high range of second gear that I left in second gear, and removed my foot from the gas in order to slow down. I'm pretty sure it's fuel related, because I don't think it would behave this way if it were an electrical or mechanical issue.

I decided to order a code reader. so I'll wait until that arrives and see what, if any, codes are stored in the computer.

 

Fuel won't throw a code. You have to look at what changed from when it was running right till the problem started. From what I read, it started after the mechanic worked on it. That is all I can go by without being there. Just trying to help without throwing 15 different things at you...lol.

 

Well, I guess that might make it more complicated to diagnose. I don't know if the problem was present before the recent work because I only pushed the car two or three times before the work, and even then probably let up before reaching high RPM.

I'm surprised that a code scanner won't show any fuel related problems stored in the computer's memory. This seems odd, but I'm sure you know more about it than I do. In any event, a code scanner is a good thing to have, and I'm sure the thirty bucks it cost online will be worth the expenditure.

 

I just checked a generic code diagnostics list and found several codes relating to the fuel pump:

P0230 Fuel Pump Primary Circuit Malfunction
P0231 Fuel Pump Secondary Circuit Low
P0232 Fuel Pump Secondary Circuit High
P0233 Fuel Pump Secondary Circuit Intermittent

However, when I checked a Crossfire-specific code list, the above codes corresponded to completely different problems.

 

Are those codes you read from the computer ? The 2004 XF service manual (available in library) does not list any P023x codes, nor does my '07 FSM.

 

They are in the fault list in the library if you care to get a copy, the manuals lack much info.

 

That list includes codes for 8 cyl, 12 cyl and turbocharged engines. Just looked in my '12 Jeep FSM and only the turbo diesel code list has P023Xs.


Are also a lot of OBD-II parameters the XF does not display. That is the problem with generic lists (but is a lot easier now than before '96.)


Does it really have P023X codes ?

 

No, he just found them as they relate to the fuel pump. He is getting a code reader.

 

The code reader I ordered from an eBay seller arrived a few days ago, but I haven't had a chance to use it yet. But lo and behold, and I was afraid of this...the problem has disappeared, perhaps only temporarily, but who knows.

Something may have been partially blocking the fuel system (dirt. etc.), and maybe it blew through, with the increased hard driving and Seafoam. Maybe the issue was rearing its its ugly head only with the higher fuel flow requirement of high RPMs.

I couldn't get it to buck today, even after trying several times. I'm not sure how long codes stay in the computer's memory, so before plugging the code reader in I was hoping to replicate the problem, turn off the engine, plug the code reader in and check it before starting the engine again. But if memory serves, I believe the computer stores a certain number of engine starts in memory (100?).

I'll drive it again as soon as I can and see if it exhibits the problem. I actually hope it does.

 

I had a 6 speed and an automatic.....just have the automatic now. I know with the stick there was a 4200 rpm rev limiter feature ...kinda like a launch control. Anyone know if that applies to automatics too? I never drive the automatic hard...

 

I finally checked the computer codes today with the code scanner. There were no error codes. And I cannot get the car to buck and stumble now. It runs great at all RPM, at least up to a bit over five thousand. This engine sounds "tight" when revved up, and I don't feel comfortable pushing it except on rare occasions. The very slight misfire at idle, in drive, has also improved; it's now almost imperceptible.

If the problem does not reoccur, the most likely reason may be that my harder driving and/or the Seafoam may have dislodged or dissolved whatever may have been blocking the flow of gas at higher RPM.

The last time I used a code scanner was probably fifteen years ago, on a mid-nineties car, and I believe at that time car computers retained all codes for one-hundred starts. But my memory could be wrong. I'm not sure about the memory of more modern cars. Googling it didn't come up with any real answer, but from what discussions I could find regarding codes, it may be that newer engine computers do not retain codes for long.

Anyway, it'll probably be next spring before I look into this hopefully temporary problem again. I'm going to more or less stop driving the car on a regular basis in a week or so, because I live in WNY, and driving it in the winter is a bad idea.

 

I'm back again to report my most recent troubles and woes with the Crossfire.

I decided to drive it a few more times before putting it to bed for the winter, and encountered a serious problem in the rain, and even through a touchless car wash. This car does not like water. Running it through the car wash made it nearly impossible to drive the two miles or so back to my house. The check engine light was on and it was running so rough I thought I wouldn't make it.

I waited about a week before starting it again and checked the computer codes with my scanner. It was showing a P0306 cylinder six misfire. I deleted the code, but driving it in the rain today for about eight miles was disappointing, because it was rough at idle, and getting worse by the minute.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I had all of the normal "tune-up" parts replaced by a what I thought at the time, and still sort of believe, is a reputable independent repair shop. They say it could be the coil feeding the number six misfire when I called them today. However, they claim to have checked all of the coils, both dry and with a water spray.

I'm guessing the entire problem may be this coil.

Anyway, I'm done with this car, which I bought only because it's truly beautiful, from every angle. I still love this about the car, but cannot tolerate these problems. I'm going to sell it. It's a 2004 and has less than 13,000 miles, which is legitimate. The inside and engine compartment are in nearly-new condition. The body is excellent. New tires and recent brakes. The engine compartment, especially, is absolutely spotless. I live in Rochester, NY, by the way, if anyone is interested. I hope mentioning this last part about selling it is allowed. If not, I apologize.

 

Yeah. I get it. You really have to stay on top of some of these cars. Something isn't right with it getting water into the system. I am sure it isn't anything that can't be fixed. Right off the top of my head I would suggest the air cleaner may have not been reinstalled correctly.

 

I've got a few used good coils here if you want to try that before giving up. $30 shipped and you should be able to swap it in 4 minutes

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll take a look and make sure the filter is on properly.

 

Thanks for the offer. I just might take you up on it.

I'm going to take the car to the repair shop tomorrow...the one that replaced the tune-up parts. He said he would check the coils again without charging me. He also said that replacing the number six cylinder coil would be $160+ installed. If he tells me the coil needs replacing, I may want one of your $30 coils. I'll make sure I can do it before committing to the job.

Frankly, however, no matter what the problem is, I'm going to sell the car. I know I'll regret it as soon as it's gone, but I'm just plain tired of the problems. The car has value to me just sitting in my garage and driveway: just looking at it and admiring it is worth something. I know I'm going to take a significant loss after owning it for only about fifteen months and driving it for less than 1,500 miles, but I don't want to throw any more good money after bad money, as the saying goes.

For what I'm going to ask for it (not sure how much yet) it will be a great deal. Crossfires with this extremely low mileage and in beautiful physical condition are rare. And it runs just fine, except when driving it in the rain. Here's hoping that problem will be fixed before I sell it.

 

The repair shop said they spent three hours checking the car and found absolutely no misfire and no driveability issues. They claimed to have sprayed the car with water from every angle--top, bottom, sides, and could not make the car run rough. They also said they could find no problem codes in the computer, which is puzzling because I thought problem codes are retained for more than just a few key cycles. I am quite sure the mechanic is being honest and have no reason to doubt their findings.

In any event, the car runs fine now that there's no heavy rain. Light rain does not seem to bother it.

I'm done with this car and will be listing it for sale. I think $7,500 net to me is a very fair price, even with the mysterious water problem. It has just less than 13,000 miles and is physically in as good condition as anyone is likely to find at anywhere near this price....which is to say it's beautiful. It's been completely "tuned up" and has two brand new Michelin tires in the front.

The car will be sitting in my garage, in Rochester NY, until it's sold.

 

Please list it here ,in the for sale section. Post pictures and give a complete history (as far a you know) of the car. I'm sure @that price you will have no problem, selling such a nice car. They are a little cantankerous at times. I'm sorry ,you have given up on it before you got to enjoy it. GLWS, it won't take long.

Edit; An after thought came to mind, could your mechanic have fixed a problem like 180 suggested, the air filter not seated properly? Get it out ,an "gas it " a few times, who knows ,you my change your mind.

 

I'm sure he checked the air filter in the process of trying to track down the water problem. But I'll check it myself. I don't want to prolong the agony by driving it any more .

I'm planning on listing it on eBay and my local Craigslist, hopefully today or tomorrow. I will try to list it on this forum, too. Thanks for the suggestion.