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I've copied the last post from the prior long thread.
Since I felt I was going around chasing a ghost I thought it would be best to start over again and see if I've missed anything. Seems I did. To summarize, the convertible top stopped working one cool night here in Florida. No up, no down. Since then, I've swapped stuff, thought I eliminated stuff but here's the latest. At the strong ( and I thank you for your help) suggestion of Pizza Guy I went and rechecked voltages at certain pins and to my surprise, Pin 7 on C1 never goes to ground When I open the top off the header. It stays somewhat steady at 3.2 volts. Pic attached. The trunk divider switch has been jumped by cutting the two wires and butt connecting them together. I tried opening the roof enough manually to access the open switch on the right side and when I push it up and down on the cam the voltage at Pin 7 does not change. Should my next step be to temporarily jump that switch as well? If so is it a cut and jump the wires process?
Originally Posted by JJFinFla Another update on the mystery top issue. For review, one evening I had the top down and it stopped working. It would not go up or down. After reading many posts here I checked the voltage at Pin 7 C1 on the PTCM. The voltage went to ground when I undid the D ring. Pin 16 of C1 is at ground until you turn the D ring, it then goes high (5 to 8 volts is "high"). Pin 7 goes to ground when you pop the top away from the windshield frame IF and only IF the divider switch is also closed (that is, the divider is up and pressing on the switch leaf).
[quote]The windows go down when the D ring is released as well.[\quote]
Proving that the latch release switch is OK, and that the PTCM and BCM are communicating.
Quote: That eliminates the divider switch, the Top Release switch and the top open switch from the issue. I'm not so sure, unless some of your text above is a typo.
Quote: Windows going down also seems to eliminate the CLP and the BCM as they are communicating. No, it eliminates, largely, the PTCM and BCM, but not the CLP/SSM.
Quote: I swapped out the CLP with a known good unit and also the PTCM as well. Still inop. I was able to acquire a complete trunk lock and removed the micro switch. First I tested the switch to make sure it opened and closed, then I unplugged the existing switch and plugged this one in both the open and closed positions. Still inop.
Quote: So in my diagnosis I believe I've eliminated the: Top Switch in the header Agreed. Top Open Switch on the right side of the TOP Not sure. Trunk Divider Switch CLP PTCM Trunk lock BCM Can Bus If any of these presumptions are incorrect, please advise.
Quote: This morning the car threw me a new curve ball! I had the roof down manually and put it up manually (always with the engine running). The light on the dash switch started flashing quickly and for the first 30-45 seconds of driving the car beeped quickly, then stopped. When I slowed down to under the 9 mph limit I got a slow flashing light and a slow beep until I sped up, then every time I went under 9mph it beeped until I finished my trip and shut the car off. This entire time the light on the switch flashed while driving. When I got back in the car a little bit later and started it, no light on the switch and no beeps!! What the heck!
Quote: When I got home, I shut the car off and then restarted it and released the D ring. Windows went down. When I hit the top switch I could hear the trunk lock but the roof did not move and after about 2-3 seconds holding the switch down I got a slow steady beep and a slow flashing light. I seem to have a moving target and it really frustrating. Any direction would be extremely appreciated.
Would my next course of action be the check the voltage at the solenoids at the hydraulic pump? Sounds like you did not use the tool to lock the lid or rear bow in place.
IT's been a long thread, have you ever tried putting the top down manually and trying to put it UP with the button?
If you're going to jump the switch over the passenger side, they make splice connectors that will tap into the wires without cutting them. They also have a second spot to put in another piece of wire.
Link to amazon:
I am more puzzled than before. I put the roof down manually today, engine running of course. Pulling away as soon as I got 9 mph I got beeps for about 30 seconds then it stopped. Light on the switch was blinking. When I restarted the car after shopping, no light, no beeps, nothing. When I got home I tried to raise the roof with the up portion of the top switch and nothing happened for 2-3 seconds. The roof did not move, then the light on the switch started to blink. When I pushed the down part of the switch I got the completed cycle one beep and the light went off. I've read repeatedly here that raising the roof does not include the divider switch or the top open switch being monitored. Boy is this making me nuts!
Troubleshooting electrical/electronic issues IS confusing, that is what makes those of us who have done so for 39 years so valuable!
You are confused as to Pin 7 and Pin 16 of C1. YOu are expecting Pin 7 to respond to something it does not respond to. (See point 2 below, you can't follow this without the service manual diagrams.)
Several things:
1) Starting a new thread before the issue is resolved is always a mistake. NOW anyone who wants to help has to go find the other thread and read thru it to understand what is going on.
2) If you are working without the service manual, opened to page 8W-66-1 and following pages, you are not going to get very far.
3) Reading the first few posts in this thread will probably help: https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...p-sensors.html
4) If you do not have it, go here to get the 2005 Service manual: https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...ollection.html
The most important chapter is "Wiring", go to the "Power Top" section of "Wiring".
Once again, here is how it works:
1) When you turn the D handle, Pin 16 of C1 goes from ground (0 volts) to about 5 volts. This causes the PTCM to turn the light on in the top switch on the console (showing that a cycle has started), and the PTCM tells the BCM to lower the windows.
2) If the top open switch over the passenger's head is OK, and the divider switch is OK (or is bypassed), then Pin 7 of C1 goes from about 3-5 volts to GROUND, that is, 0 volts.* Once both of these happens, the top will move if all else is OK. Pin 7 of C1 is NOT CHECKED when putting the top UP but IS checked when putting the top DOWN.
*The reason Pin 7 goes to ground is because having the divider up (or divider switch bypassed) makes the divider switch "close", then, as the top hinges up, the switch over the passenger's head is relaxed, it's contacts close, and now you have both closed, they are wired in series, and this grounds the input to Pin 7.
If pin 7 will not go to ground, either the "top open" switch over the passenger's head is bad/broken or the divider switch is bad/broken/not being pressed hard enough by the divider's rod.
Since my roof will not open or close, this eliminates the divider switch or the top open switch as possible culprits, correct?? Since the windows do go down when opening the D handle, this eliminates the roof switch in the header and probably the PTCM, correct??
Sorry for the new thread. I thought the old one was getting VERY long, hence Vol 2. .
[QUOTE=JJFinFla;991823]I've copied the last post from the prior long thread.
Since I felt I was going around chasing a ghost I thought it would be best to start over again and see if I've missed anything. Seems I did. To summarize, the convertible top stopped working one cool night here in Florida. No up, no down. Since then, I've swapped stuff, thought I eliminated stuff but here's the latest. At the strong ( and I thank you for your help) suggestion of Pizza Guy I went and rechecked voltages at certain pins and to my surprise, Pin 7 on C1 never goes to ground When I open the top off the header. It stays somewhat steady at 3.2 volts. Pic attached. The trunk divider switch has been jumped by cutting the two wires and butt connecting them together. I tried opening the roof enough manually to access the open switch on the right side and when I push it up and down on the cam the voltage at Pin 7 does not change. Should my next step be to temporarily jump that switch as well? If so is it a cut and jump the wires process?
Originally Posted by JJFinFla Another update on the mystery top issue. For review, one evening I had the top down and it stopped working. It would not go up or down. After reading many posts here I checked the voltage at Pin 7 C1 on the PTCM. The voltage went to ground when I undid the D ring. Pin 16 of C1 is at ground until you turn the D ring, it then goes high (5 to 8 volts is "high"). Pin 7 goes to ground when you pop the top away from the windshield frame IF and only IF the divider switch is also closed (that is, the divider is up and pressing on the switch leaf).
The windows go down when the D ring is released as well.[\quote]
Proving that the latch release switch is OK, and that the PTCM and BCM are communicating.
Quote: That eliminates the divider switch, the Top Release switch and the top open switch from the issue. I'm not so sure, unless some of your text above is a typo.
Quote: Windows going down also seems to eliminate the CLP and the BCM as they are communicating. No, it eliminates, largely, the PTCM and BCM, but not the CLP/SSM.
Quote: I swapped out the CLP with a known good unit and also the PTCM as well. Still inop. I was able to acquire a complete trunk lock and removed the micro switch. First I tested the switch to make sure it opened and closed, then I unplugged the existing switch and plugged this one in both the open and closed positions. Still inop.
Quote: So in my diagnosis I believe I've eliminated the: Top Switch in the header Agreed. Top Open Switch on the right side of the TOP Not sure. Trunk Divider Switch CLP PTCM Trunk lock BCM Can Bus If any of these presumptions are incorrect, please advise.
Quote: This morning the car threw me a new curve ball! I had the roof down manually and put it up manually (always with the engine running). The light on the dash switch started flashing quickly and for the first 30-45 seconds of driving the car beeped quickly, then stopped. When I slowed down to under the 9 mph limit I got a slow flashing light and a slow beep until I sped up, then every time I went under 9mph it beeped until I finished my trip and shut the car off. This entire time the light on the switch flashed while driving. When I got back in the car a little bit later and started it, no light on the switch and no beeps!! What the heck!
Quote: When I got home, I shut the car off and then restarted it and released the D ring. Windows went down. When I hit the top switch I could hear the trunk lock but the roof did not move and after about 2-3 seconds holding the switch down I got a slow steady beep and a slow flashing light. I seem to have a moving target and it really frustrating. Any direction would be extremely appreciated.
Would my next course of action be the check the voltage at the solenoids at the hydraulic pump? Sounds like you did not use the tool to lock the lid or rear bow in place.
IT's been a long thread, have you ever tried putting the top down manually and trying to put it UP with the button?
I have never seen this tool with anything but a red light. I will have to get one that shows voltage 👍
As I work through possibilities causing the roof not to operate I believe I've eliminated the roof open switch, the header switch, the divider switch, the canbus and PTCM.
In the sequence of things that are needed to start the pump the next thing on the list would be the trunk lock. On the pin out there seems to be 2 wires that show as Pin 13.I've checked voltage at both. The BR/BL stays at a steady 6.2 v. The BR/YL goes from 0 with the trunk open to 12v when trunk is shut. Does that eliminate the trunk lock from the problem??
Last edited by JJFinFla; Aug 13, 2024 at 12:00 PM.
Reason: new info
New info on my inoperative convertible top. Please bear with me as I try to be as descriptive as possible.
Here's where I am now.
Battery voltage static is 12.4v with engine running 14.2v. Operation attempts are ALWAYS with the engine running.
Top is inoperative either up or down.
When unlatching the D ring the windows immediately go down.
The trunk divider switch as been jumped.
The re-learn procedure has been attempted multiple times.
The Tonneau Cover switch has been tested for voltage to ground and mechanical operation.
The Rear Bow Latch has been tested for voltage to ground and mechanical operation.
In both of these switches they go from approx 5v to ground when operated manually and in their operational state.
The Trunk latch voltage at the CLP has been verified to go from ground to 12v when trunk is opened and closed by testing at Pin 13 C1 connector of the CLP.
I believe I have eliminated:
Top Open Switch in header
Roof Open Switch above pass head
Divider Switch
Tonneau Cover Switch
Rear Bow Switch
CLP
PTCM
Trunk Switch
Battery Voltage
I'm now at checking the Hall Sensors or the Hydraulic Pump. (BTW, there are no leaks and the reservoir is at the full line.)
Any ideas as to where to go next would be very helpful. I know what is working properly but as of yest I have not found what isn't.
Thanks ZERACER. I've tested the Hall Sensor on the Tonneau cover lift cylinder and the voltage changes when the lid is in the full up position so cross that off too!
Battery voltage static is 12.4v with engine running 14.2v. Operation attempts are ALWAYS with the engine running.
Top is inoperative either up or down. When unlatching the D ring the windows immediately go down. The trunk divider switch as been jumped. The re-learn procedure has been attempted multiple times. The Tonneau Cover switch has been tested for voltage to ground and mechanical operation. The Rear Bow Latch has been tested for voltage to ground and mechanical operation. In both of these switches they go from approx 5v to ground when operated manually and in their operational state.
The Trunk latch voltage at the CLP has been verified to go from ground to 12v when trunk is opened and closed by testing at Pin 13 C1 connector of the CLP.
I believe I have eliminated: Top Open Switch in header Roof Open Switch above pass head Divider Switch Tonneau Cover Switch Rear Bow Switch CLP PTCM Trunk Switch Battery Voltage
I've tested the Hall Sensor on the Tonneau cover lift cylinder and the voltage changes when the lid is in the full up position so cross that off too!
I'm now at checking the rest of the Hall Sensors or the Hydraulic Pump. (BTW, there are no leaks and the reservoir is at the full line.)
Any ideas as to where to go next would be very helpful. I know what is working properly but as of yest I have not found what isn't.
So my top has been fixed! I brought it to a local guy at Tight Work Auto Repair who is a well know Crossfire expert with a DRB emulator. He cleared all the codes that were stored and there were a whole bunch because of all my repair attempts. When he scanned the car it showed the convertible top motor in the pump had failed. When he started removing the pump we noticed that one of the two pump relays was not seated in the connector properly. It looked like the connector had partially fallen out. He cleaned the connector and reseated the relay and the top started moving. After resetting everything the top now works perfectly. If you need any work on your Crossfire, his name is Alex Tuchman and he is located in Cape Coral. Highly recommend.
05 Roadster Convertible Top Issues Vol 2
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