303 Protectant VS Armor All - CrossfireForum - The Chrysler Crossfire and SRT6 Resource


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Old 07-01-2008, 05:20 PM
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Default 303 Protectant VS Armor All

I wonder if any of you forum members have had anyone warn them about using Armor All on their vehicles. Our mechanics at the bus garage all put it down and say that it will rot your tires. The sales people at the store where I buy my tires say don't use Armor All on you dash or your tires. They claim it will dry them out and cause cracking.

I got a new boat this year and the salesman at the marina said be sure not to use Armor All on the vinyl seats because it will rot the thread. Are these guys just repeating a story or is there really something going on here ?

I like 303 Areospace Protectant and buy it by the gallon to off set the high cost of a 16 oz. bottle. I really like the stuff, but I also have some Armor All left and wonder if I should just pitch it.

Any thoughts ? Any Truth to the rumors on Armor All ?
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Old 07-01-2008, 05:57 PM
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Default Re: 303 Protectant VS Armor All

I have used Armor All on my cars for more years then I can even remember and never had any problems.
I used in on interiors and tires that went 70,000 miles.
I don't believe anything bad can come from using it.
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Old 07-01-2008, 06:03 PM
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Default Re: 303 Protectant VS Armor All

i see nothing wrong with armor all for tire use 'only'... (finish using what you have remaining).

but i also use 303 protectant... a much better product.

i am not a fan of dressing being applied to any interior surface... just a dust collector imo... however i use a true leather conditioner for the seats and other leather areas.

cheers!
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Old 07-02-2008, 01:18 AM
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Default Re: 303 Protectant VS Armor All

From what I understand (**disclaimer - I am not a chemist**) the polymers in plastics and vinyls consist of Bis-(2-ethylhexyl)phthlateakadioctyl phthlate, also known as DOP. This is a plasticiser that makes polymers soft and pliable. It evaporates when exposed to UV light.

The arguments against Armour All are as follows:

*Armour All brings the DOP to the surface and allows it to evaporate quicker.
Many studies show this is true, while others show that this is not the case, so I guess this needs further testing.

*Armour All doesn't block UV, thus allowing the DOP to evaporate.
This is true as far as I know.


*Armour All does not seal the DOP, nor replace it.
This seems to be true also.

Conclusion: Using Armour All will not protect your rubber pads from exposure and *might* increase the evaporation rate.

303 Aerospace Protectant has UV blockers and is not oil based so it will not dry out the surfaces it is used on.
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Old 07-02-2008, 04:08 AM
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Default Re: 303 Protectant VS Armor All

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringmaster
From what I understand (**disclaimer - I am not a chemist**) the polymers in plastics and vinyls consist of Bis-(2-ethylhexyl)phthlateakadioctyl phthlate, also known as DOP. This is a plasticiser that makes polymers soft and pliable. It evaporates when exposed to UV light.

The arguments against Armour All are as follows:

*Armour All brings the DOP to the surface and allows it to evaporate quicker.
Many studies show this is true, while others show that this is not the case, so I guess this needs further testing.

*Armour All doesn't block UV, thus allowing the DOP to evaporate.
This is true as far as I know.


*Armour All does not seal the DOP, nor replace it.
This seems to be true also.

Conclusion: Using Armour All will not protect your rubber pads from exposure and *might* increase the evaporation rate.

303 Aerospace Protectant has UV blockers and is not oil based so it will not dry out the surfaces it is used on.
Very logical and well presented Ringmaster, thanks. Thanks Valk & Andrew also.
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:12 PM
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Default Re: 303 Protectant VS Armor All

As many of your know, I work for Meguiar's. Of course we test and compare all the competitors products, even to the point of having our chemists literally take the stuff apart.

Armor All is, without a doubt, the single most maligned product in the automotive finish care world. Back in the day it was just about the ONLY product of it's kind on the market, and it was being used on plastics and vinyls of the time (think back to the great quality of domestic car interiors back in 1975 - yeah, junk). Now consider that most people did NOTHING to the dash in their cars and over time the material would just dry out horribly. So Armor All hit the market and people jumped on it. Spray some on that badly weathered dash and the material would often swell and split, so everyone blamed Armor All - after all, the dash appeared fine before applying the stuff. Truth is, if the dash is that badly dried out it will have a tendancy to swell and split if you appy almost anything to it - even plain water. But since Armor All had virtually no competition at the time, it took the blame.

Armor All was reforumlated several years ago, mostly due to changing VOC regulations that they, us and all of our competitors face on an ongoing basis, and it's now basically just a water based dressing not terribly unlike 303, or several of our own dressings. It does tend to impart a pretty high shine still, which I personally don't care for (but then again we make a product or two who's appearance I don't care for, but some folks like that look so we make 'em). Of course, just because many of these are water based doesn't mean their all identical - far from it. 303 is an excellent product, but I'd put our M40 Vinyl & Rubber Cleaner/Conditioner or Hyper Dressing up against it any day.

Otherwise Armor All is fine to use on the interior, tires, etc. If you don't mind the look .
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Old 07-02-2008, 02:10 PM
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Default Re: 303 Protectant VS Armor All

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike-in-Orange
I'd put our M40 Vinyl & Rubber Cleaner/Conditioner or Hyper Dressing up against it any day.
+1 for the Hyper Dressing. One of the best products made IMHO.
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Old 07-03-2008, 11:48 AM
 
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Default Re: 303 Protectant VS Armor All

I wouldn't use Armor All on my toilet plunger. The stuff is TERRIBLE! I had a 2001 VW Jetta VR6, and it caused the rubberized plastics to peel in a very short amount of time (maybe this was the pre-reformulated version of Armor All I was using). Prior to that car, none of my cars had this rubberized coating on the plastics, so I suppose it was never an issue. I have noticed, however, that some of the plastics on all the cars that I've maintained religiously from day one are cracking to hell and back (decades of Armor All application). In 2007, when I purchased my "new" SRT SSB Roadster, I solicited the help of forum members because I knew with all the rubberized plastics that I had to be extremely careful. Golfdude helped me tremendously in this regard. He introduced me to autogeek.net and the wonderful world of "upscale" protectorants. I use water based products from Pinnacle and Wolfgang, and I won't even go near the plastics with anything containing silicon or petroleum distillates. It's been a year now of weekly washings and detailing, and I can honestly say that I believe my interior is in better shape than when I got the car at 13 miles (of course it had been sitting in the sun for two years prior to my taking possession). I hope this helps. Thanks again Golfdude!!

Matthew
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Old 07-03-2008, 01:10 PM
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Default Re: 303 Protectant VS Armor All

Silicones and petroleum distillates are other ingredients that are usually terribly misunderstood. Silicone is inert and can do no harm to paint, vinyl, etc. The only time silicone is bad is when used in an environment where paint is being sprayed - which is why none of our polishing compounds and paint cleaners/polishes in our Mirror Glaze Professional line contain them. But that's the ONLY reason.

As for petroleum distillates - Chap Stick contains them for crying out loud.

I'm not saying that any and all products that contain either of these ingredients are acceptable to use on your car, but excluding a product simply because it may contain either is a bit silly.
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Old 07-03-2008, 01:26 PM
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Default Re: 303 Protectant VS Armor All

In my industry, we have strict silicone exposure controls. Silicones adhere very strongly to contacts and contamination can prevent solder reflow, rapid 3-d prototypers and other critical machines to fail.

That said, silicone is a terrible thing to put on plastics. It does absolutely nothing beneficial for plastic, and it's not cheap.
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Old 07-03-2008, 01:36 PM
 
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Default Re: 303 Protectant VS Armor All

I don't use chap stick on my lips for the same reason I don't use anything with petroleum distillates on plastics - It dries them out eventually. It may feel good and provide relief in the short term, but it creates dependence and degradation in the long term. Just my 2 cents, and my experience speaks volumes - No cracks or compromising of the plastics to date. Ha!

Matthew
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Old 07-03-2008, 02:13 PM
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Default Re: 303 Protectant VS Armor All

No chemical degrees here, just personal experiences.
My dad has used Armor -All on all his vehicles from day one of purchase. Tires, dash, seat vinyls, and leathers. You have to strap yourself in tight or you end up on the floor. The seats and anything you might hold on to are slicker than goose poop. None of his cars have suffered and he drives them until the wheels fall off.

I have used it with success on new cars although not as lavishly as my dad. The only time I have had an issue is when I used Armor All or STP protectorants on an old car for restoration. I have two Benzes with cracked dashboards and my Dodge Ram truck. The truck was a surprise as I was only using the wipes after a long summer of neglect.

In all 3 cases the cracks occurred about 5 days after the application and were castastropic.

I won't use Armor All on my Crossfire. I'm using a lanolyn based furniture cream on the dash and interior. Meguairs leather conditioner on the seats. Used the same formula on my Mark Cross "K" car convertible that was not garaged. It went over 220M Crack free miles before I gave it to my niece.


roadster with a stick

Last edited by Franc Rauscher; 07-03-2008 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 07-04-2008, 11:33 AM
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Default Re: 303 Protectant VS Armor All

So does the 303 stuff not contain all this bad stuff you guys are talking about? Also do they carry it at autozone?
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Old 08-12-2008, 04:56 AM
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Default Re: 303 Protectant VS Armor All

I've read that the 303 Protectant is an excellent protector/sealer for convertible tops, better then RaggTopp.

Mike I've been using Meguiar's products for a long time. I like their Gold line, and really like their Quik Detailer Mist & Wipe Spray (this stuff rocks).

I've yet to try it, but I hear great things about Meguiar's NXT line, many say it's on par with the Zaino line.

I also really like the Zymol product line, their leather conditioner and wax is terrific.
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Old 08-12-2008, 07:58 AM
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Default Re: 303 Protectant VS Armor All

Like Valk I've used Armor-All for decades w/ utterly no issues at all; still do today on both X-fires. After every wash/wax it's applied to all the seals around the windows. I've never had had any dried out or cracked seals on any of my cars.
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Old 08-13-2008, 09:17 AM
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Default Re: 303 Protectant VS Armor All

I tried Meguiars Quik Interior mist and wipe Detailer and I really like it. It's not at all glossy or greasy and leaves a more conditioned feel to the interior. It smells good too. I use the 303 on the rubber seals though. The leather get treated with Tanner's Preserve cleaner and conditioning cream.
Threw out the Armor All a long time ago.

Last edited by Fritzauf; 08-13-2008 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 08-13-2008, 11:33 AM
 
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Default Re: 303 Protectant VS Armor All

I like the 303 products for the convertible top. Both the cleaner and the protectorant. After 2 years my top looks just like new
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Old 08-23-2008, 06:51 PM
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Default Re: 303 Protectant VS Armor All

Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewdavid
I use water based products from Pinnacle and Wolfgang, and I won't even go near the plastics with anything containing silicon or petroleum distillates.
I hate to burst your bubble Matthew, but just because something is water based does not mean it's silicone free. Check Pinnacle's MSDS sheet for their Vinyl & Rubber Protectant and you'll see it contains 25-35% Polydimethysiloxane by weight. Yep, it's loaded with silicone. But that certainly does not make it a bad product, not by any stretch. Silicones and petroleum distillates are terribly misunderstood and, when used correctly, are not only harmless but actually enhance certain characteristics of a product.

We all know that dressings or waxes that contain silicones are bad to have in a body shop environment because it takes just the tiniest amount of it landing on a surface to cause fisheyes when paint is sprayed. There are products used in body shop environments called fisheye reducers and many of them actually contain........wait for it.........silicone. There are so many different types of silicones and the simple truth is they not all bad all the time.

If you really want to avoid silicones totally then the only vinyl and rubber protectant I know of that is silicone free, and guaranteed body shop safe, is Meguiar's Silicone Free Dressing from our Detailer line. But the smallest size available is 1 Gallon.


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Old 10-07-2008, 08:50 PM
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Default Re: 303 Protectant VS Armor All

Mike, your analysis of the benefits of silicones is the best and most accurate series of write-ups that I have read in an automobile forum - ever! For those non-chemists in the forum, READ what this guy is telling you - the root cause of your problems is not silicones - or petroleum distillates (oils & solvents) - or waxes... It is the fact that you have sun-drenched, old plastic/rubber - that has reached its useful life... No matter what dressings you apply to these surfaces - they were destined to crack/fail due to years of exposure to sun/weather.

Also, please realize that these dressing are really very thin surface coatings and their ability to extract/affect the underliying plastics is almost non-existant. They really just lay on the surface and provide shine (from the oils such as silicones), less-shine (due to drying/matteing agents, such as other polymers) and uv-protection (if those ingredients have been added to the formulation)... That's it...

Lastly, I've used silicone sprays, emulsions, even straight siloxanes on tires & plastics for 32 years (before Armor All existed) and have never experienced or read (in technical journals) of a negative affect of silicones due to their use on the surface of rubbers or plastics.
As Mike states - this does not mean that you want to apply paint to a siliconized surface - but just use them for their intended (and limited) purpose in these dressings - which is to impart a clean, darkened, shiney surface to the rubber/plastic.

Hope this information helps...
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Old 10-08-2008, 02:36 AM
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Default Re: 303 Protectant VS Armor All

Quote:
Originally Posted by KcKey12
Mike, your analysis of the benefits of silicones is the best and most accurate series of write-ups that I have read in an automobile forum - ever! For those non-chemists in the forum, READ what this guy is telling you - the root cause of your problems is not silicones - or petroleum distillates (oils & solvents) - or waxes... It is the fact that you have sun-drenched, old plastic/rubber - that has reached its useful life... No matter what dressings you apply to these surfaces - they were destined to crack/fail due to years of exposure to sun/weather.

Also, please realize that these dressing are really very thin surface coatings and their ability to extract/affect the underliying plastics is almost non-existant. They really just lay on the surface and provide shine (from the oils such as silicones), less-shine (due to drying/matteing agents, such as other polymers) and uv-protection (if those ingredients have been added to the formulation)... That's it...

Lastly, I've used silicone sprays, emulsions, even straight siloxanes on tires & plastics for 32 years (before Armor All existed) and have never experienced or read (in technical journals) of a negative affect of silicones due to their use on the surface of rubbers or plastics.
As Mike states - this does not mean that you want to apply paint to a siliconized surface - but just use them for their intended (and limited) purpose in these dressings - which is to impart a clean, darkened, shiney surface to the rubber/plastic.

Hope this information helps...
That's why we all like Mike from Orange McKey12, he gives advise straight up. If he doesn't know the answer he has his people he can go to for the answer.

BTW, I like how you prioritize your intrests in your personal profile.
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