Can't Start - no Crank
 

Ok so the title of this will immediately make you think it is a RCM or a SKREEM issue. I did too, but here is the story
2005 Convertible Crossfire
- Battery light came on for a few days, stupidly I ignored it as my car seems to have many idiot lights come on randomly then go out so I waited to see if it would go out..... it did, along with all ability to start the car
- had my car towed back to my house. I replaced the battery with a brand new one (old one was completely dead but under warranty)
- contacted DJ Tighe and him and I ran through some tests listed below
- RCM tested and seems ok, both relays close with key in ignition - DJ approved
- we then test the Power Module ( I think ) and we were able to determine that there was power getting to the starter when it was by-pass from the wire (applied 12v directly to the connection)
- we also tested that there was 12V getting to the wire but when connected the starter wont engage
- When I manually closed the relay when applying power the starter did engage but the car would not start.

As it sits I am able to engage the key but the car does not turnover or crank at all. in order to keep trying to turnover I need to turn key to off position then try again still nothing happens, I am not able to turn key and have it simply go to the ON position and try to crank again, the key won't move. I spoke briefly with the MSS team and they had me look inside my trunk for any moisture which I could not see. One reason was that the car at one point seemed to be having an alarm issue. Which is odd as I disconnected the alarm last year but the thought was that it might be alarm related and the car was locked out of starting for some reason. I am pretty sure I unplugged the siren module last year as I totally removed the siren (is there a plug in that I may have missed ?)

I am at a total loss of what to do next.

Re: Can't Start - no Crank
 

Update. I went out and disconnected the battery for about 20 seconds reconnected and tried to start. on first attempt it did a "half crank" certainly not a full one, turn key to off and tried again got Nothing !! decided to try the procedure again and disconnected battery again, went back to try to start and got nothing, not even a half crank. I find this very odd as there doesn't seem to be any pattern to the process

Re: Can't Start - no Crank
 

Possibly a short in the alternator,

Re: Can't Start - no Crank
 

thanks for the input. How would I go about testing for a short in the Alternator ?

Re: Can't Start - no Crank
 

There are a number of videos out there, but I found this one. It might be helpful.

Re: Can't Start - no Crank
 

A short in the alternator will not prevent you from cranking or starting the car. It will deplete the battery and then the car will not turn over and it will not start, because the battery is dead. So if your battery is maintaining 12 volts after a night parked in your garage I doubt you have a short in your alternator.
I know you worked with tighed1, but your explanation isn't all that clear; Did you leave the key in the on position for one minute (the position the key springs back to after you attempt to start the car) after trying to start the car? Did the radiator cooling fan rev up to high speed?? If you didn't hear the fan after waiting one minute then we will assume the RCM is okay per tighed1 and your testing.
Here is a picture of the Pulse Control Module with the voltages you should be getting see post #5 Pulse module voltages

PS "in order to keep trying to turnover I need to turn key to off position then try again still nothing happens, I am not able to turn key and have it simply go to the ON position and try to crank again, the key won't move." That is normal, not a problem.

Re: Can't Start - no Crank
 

Thanks. I don’t believe this to be an alternator problem at all, but at this point, I’m not ruining anything out.
I went outside again to follow your instructions. Clearly the battery is fully charged. It’s brand new and is maintaining a charge. I put the key in turned it to the on position. Let it sit for half a second and then tried to crank the car. I returned the key to the own position when it did not crank I then let it sit for over a minute without touching anything, and there was no sound of any fan or any other indication during that entire minute

Re: Can't Start - no Crank
 

Have you double checked all battery connections, both ends?

Re: Can't Start - no Crank
 

Just to be clear what is "both ends" I have def checked the battery terminal ends and have cleaned them to ensure they are good to go. What is the "other end" ? Alternator? I have not physically checked that end or any other end

Re: Can't Start - no Crank
 

Trace the negative cable to where it is grounded to the body. Ensure both ends are free from corrosion. Often time corrosion can occur inside the cable and it's hard to see. Many of us have put an additional ground cable on the battery and grounded it to one of the bolts near the transmission housing. Search the forum there is a post on how to do this.

Re: Can't Start - no Crank
 

For a quick and easy check for your ground, put a booster cable on the negative battery post and connect the other end to a good ground on the engine or frame. If it works, your existing ground is no good. Good luck.

Re: Can't Start - no Crank
 

thanks, when you say "if it works" what does that mean? What would happen? negative to negative, I am unsure what to look for ?

Re: Can't Start - no Crank
 

Using the booster cable from the negative side of the battery to the engine or frame is just providing a temporary ground. If the car starts, your issue is with the ground and you will have to repair your ground connection or install a secondary ground as previously discussed. This is just a quick way to test if your ground is the problem without having to crawl under the car.

Re: Can't Start - no Crank
 

I had same issue. You said you replaced the RCM. My mechanic put in a used RCM bought on eBay. It was bad also. Bought another one from a reputable seller and it worked. Are you able to pull codes? If it comes up P0410 (secondary air pump), it's almost always the RCM.

Re: Can't Start - no Crank
 

I am not able to pull codes, and NO I haven't replaced the RCM it has tested fine so far. I am however going to get it rebuilt from DJTighe

Re: Can't Start - no Crank
 

1) Starter won't engage.
2) Forcing the starter to turn, the car won't start.

Well, that tells me about all I need to know. No one doing real troubleshooting should ignore that the car would still not start when you manually engaged the starter - this tells you that lack of starter engagement is not the root cause, it is a SYMPTOM of the root cause. The same problem causing a "no starter engagement" issue is what is causing a no start upon starter engagement.

DO THIS:
Get in car, put key in, turn to start. Release key to ON and SIT THERE 45 seconds.
Is the engine fan running fast?
If so, replace the RCM. (Or dont and keep wasting time.)

If the fan is not running fast, measure battery terminal voltage with key at "ON". It better be 11.8 or more volts, if not, I'd suspect battery. Also, the fact the alternator light was on, tells me that, very likely, the alternator is not charging, so the battery was getting weaker and weaker as you drove the car. PERHAPS, it started charging when the light went out - but perhaps not, the light is lit based on the voltage difference between the bus in the instrument panel and the field windings in the alternator.
These cars, and SLKs, won't engage the starter below a certain battery voltage - and "testing" the battery often does no good, because "mechanics" don't understand what battery voltage instability does to the ECU/PTCM's brain. A battery that "tests good" by providing 200 amps on their meter means nothing if terminal voltage is low. Terminal voltage meant less in 1970 but with the electronics in today's cars stable terminal voltage under load is a BIG deal.

And no, Im not going to read thru the entire thread. I have little time to come here and help people anymore. PLease see my threads all over the forum with my notes and tips.

Re: Can't Start - no Crank
 

@brianlister , getting the RCM sent to DJTighe is excellent. The RCM is usually the problem when there is a no crank, no start situation. Most all of us carry a spare RCM in the glove compartment as the RCM is a common failing and by having a spare you won't get stranded as it is an easy quick replacement.

Checking the ground and positive battery cables is fundamental with a no start problem. You have recently replaced the battery so both battery terminal clamps should have been burnished and cleaned before reconnecting. The black negative wire from the battery goes to the fender near the battery. Disconnect the nut on the fender and clean the connection well. Same thing with the large red wire from the positive battery terminal down to the alternator. Just check and see that it is clean and without corrosion, but if it looks bad then turn on all the lights and the high beams, turn on the radio and the heater/A/C fan before disconnecting the negative battery terminal. Then the positive red battery wire and then then you can safely disconnect the wire down by the alternator and get it good and clean, before reconnecting. If you have gone that far get under the car on the drivers side and check the engine ground strap. It is located where the aft leg of the front wheels lower suspension arm connects to the frame. It is a copper colored braided round large wire about 7 inches long between the frame and the bell housing. Check it is clean and making good connection to the frame and the transmission. If you measure more than 0.5 ohms on any of those cables replace them. Reconnect the red positive battery cable, then the black battery cable and then turn off all the lights radio etc. By having all the lights on you help reduce shock to the electric modules that are connected all through the car.

Are any warning lights turned on in the instrument cluster??
Did you get a chance to check the starting voltages as shown in the Pulse Module post #6 ??
Does your FOB lock/unlock the doors and do the parking lights flash when you lock unlock with the FOB ??
You should check all the fuses to be certain electrical connections are indeed getting power; the small black plastic box in front of the battery, the fuses on top the RCM, the fuses in the engine bay back wall driver's side and even those in the driver's side of the instrument panel when you open the door. Most have nothing to do with starting, but some do and best to be sure.

Re: Can't Start - no Crank
 

I did some of the testing on the Pulse Module here are results I did
F1 DOES have power when key in Start pos'n
Socket for A1 DOES have pwr at all times
A5 DOES have continuity
*** B1 B2 do NOT HAVE power when key turned to Start

Not sure how to proceed but the fact that B1 & 2 don't have power seems to be a big issue.

Re: Can't Start - no Crank
 

The way I understand this:

If you have an automatic transmission the B1 connection at the Pulse Module will have a purple colored wire. That wire comes directly from the ignition switch the start position so you should get power there (12 Volts DC) when you move the switch to start. If you are not getting power when you prob up the female connection on the purple wire you have found your problem.
There is one connection under the dash Connector C200 the purple wire passes through. Check that wiring. Continuity from the switch to the Pulse Module.

And please answer the questions in my post 17. They may seem weird but they are connected to the problem you are having. You do have an automatic transmission?

Re: Can't Start - no Crank
 

Yes I have automatic

Apologies for not answering these, got lost in the shuffle, appreciate your help !!

Warning Lights - no other than ALL lights come on when turned key to position On
Battery is maintaining 12V tested today at 12.4 V
Starting Voltages for the Pulse Module are all OK except for the Connector B as explained
My FOB does indeed lock and unlock and the doors and the lights flash when I do it
All fuses in the RCM have been checked and verified, have not checked all others in the box in front of driver side

I think I have addressed all questions, let me know if you think of anything else