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TO OR NOT TO USE <<e-85
I bought my C-320 in Aug. of 2018 (Limited crossfire with a wagon skin) in other words the C-320 has the same engine, transmission, and rear end as a limited crossfire.used high test as recommended in July I started using reg gas yes 87 octane after three or four tanks full and about 1000 miles, and after much research I added some E85, 3 gal to a tank full of reg. the power increase was very noticeable , by adding 33% E-85 every thing in the fuel system is safe, google it and ask people that race and want more power ,,no people that sell or just work on cars., one of my source's is a Ford engineer , one is a nascar mechanic, mercedes shop and others,,, power not gas mileage ,, maybe this is a cheap was to gain hp in the limited as well as the srt6 jim
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Re: What did you do to your Crossfire today?
Thanks Jim, that is really good information to know. I may just try that in my SRT6. I have seen your slips listed (I have to skip by the numerous slips you have there to figure out my car's "rank" in the "fastest" category). Didn't know you sold your car. Any idea if an E55 with an EC tune can handle the 33% E85 without a retune? My SRT6 is down right now while I investigate a boost loss issue, so I am bringing my E55 to the track in 9 days. Could use the additional advantage! ~Crystal
Originally Posted by amx1397
(Post 915859)
I bought my C-320 in Aug. of 2018 (Limited crossfire with a wagon skin) in other words the C-320 has the same engine, transmission, and rear end as a limited crossfire.used high test as recommended in July I started using reg gas yes 87 octane after three or four tanks full and about 1000 miles, and after much research I added some E85, 3 gal to a tank full of reg. the power increase was very noticeable , by adding 33% E-85 every thing in the fuel system is safe, google it and ask people that race and want more power ,,no people that sell or just work on cars., one of my source's is a Ford engineer , one is a nascar mechanic, mercedes shop and others,,, power not gas mileage ,, maybe this is a cheap was to gain hp in the limited as well as the srt6 jim
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Re: What did you do to your Crossfire today?
Originally Posted by amx1397
(Post 915859)
I bought my C-320 in Aug. of 2018 (Limited crossfire with a wagon skin) in other words the C-320 has the same engine, transmission, and rear end as a limited crossfire.used high test as recommended in July I started using reg gas yes 87 octane after three or four tanks full and about 1000 miles, and after much research I added some E85, 3 gal to a tank full of reg. the power increase was very noticeable , by adding 33% E-85 every thing in the fuel system is safe, google it and ask people that race and want more power ,,no people that sell or just work on cars., one of my source's is a Ford engineer , one is a nascar mechanic, mercedes shop and others,,, power not gas mileage ,, maybe this is a cheap was to gain hp in the limited as well as the srt6 jim
Hopeully my SRT responds well to it. Also wondering if haveing a tune and pulley would effect this... |
Re: What did you do to your Crossfire today?
My next trip to the drag strip i was going to do the same thing,, if you have some old time slips to compare it to.
full tank of gas is to heavy use maybe 5 of gas and 1 &1 1/2 of e 85 the % of the ethanol is + to the E # e 10 is 10% ethanol and e-85 is 85% so set yours around 33% and your car can take it not sure with a tune and pulleys my C320 has a afr reading of 10.2 and with the 33% it reads 11.8 ,,which is good NOT LEAN my black V8 the afr's were in the low 12's could not add anything over e15 in it. good luck,, maybe we have come up with some cheap hp and only need it when we want to go fast... jim |
Re: What did you do to your Crossfire today?
Originally Posted by AtomicBubbles
(Post 915885)
alright I’m gonna go be a guinea pig and put 7 gallons of 91 and 3 gallons of e85. And see what I can come up with. It’s probably gonna run slightly leaner then what you’d typically want. Since e85 requires more fuel to burn. But 30% seems doable. Hopeully my SRT responds well to it. Also wondering if haveing a tune and pulley would effect this... . |
Re: What did you do to your Crossfire today?
Originally Posted by GraphiteGhost
(Post 915899)
:confused: I was led to believe E85 fuel isn't compatable with our fuel systems. Did I read something wrong on this topic? :confused:
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Re: What did you do to your Crossfire today?
Have a larger supercharger inlet, throttle body and DCAI coming from Needswings for Jim's old car (My new car) installing that along with a supercharger pulley and then off to the dyno for some tuning. Looking forward to dyno numbers and the track as soon it's warm enough.
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Re: What did you do to your Crossfire today?
Originally Posted by DragonSlayer129!
(Post 915902)
Have a larger supercharger inlet, throttle body and DCAI coming from Needswings for Jim's old car (My new car) installing that along with a supercharger pulley and then off to the dyno for some tuning. Looking forward to dyno numbers and the track as soon it's warm enough.
lf your afr's are low enough maybe add a gal of E-85 anything over 12.3 is too high ( for those that don't know) thanks for the update jim |
Re: TO OR NOT TO USE <<e-85
Originally Posted by amx1397
(Post 915926)
I started this post on another page then moved it to here because there seemed to be some interest in it.
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Re: TO OR NOT TO USE <<e-85
Originally Posted by Valk
(Post 915933)
I moved all the posts from the other thread into this thread
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Re: TO OR NOT TO USE <<e-85
As far as the ME2.8 can handle it would be up to a maximum of 40% E85 safe without adaptive tune. The Bosch is capable to handle that. As for 100% E85 you’ll need to get a tune. In Europe many running E85 to save cash at the pump. We have ridiculous prices. For those who say it will kill the engine well back in 2004 Mercedes made a C320 sedan FFV. FFV as flex fuel version and have same internals as our N/A. I crawled diagrams parts list etc etc and the main difference is the Bosch ME2,8 had a different fuel map and bigger injectors. On my N/A I’m on the work of a conversion. The only thing needed is specific injectors, a tune and AFR reading. That’s my 2 cent for doing it good. Some uses piggy backs and it work but I don’t like to trick the ECU. Regarding fuel lines, and seals they all are from NBR and therefore E100% résistant. N/A would need 240cc injectors, for normal driving application or 300/330cc injectors for racing use. SRT6 would need 550cc for normal street use and 730cc for racing application and powergains. cheers John |
Re: TO OR NOT TO USE <<e-85
for almost 5 months now i have added 33% E-85 to my C320 (same motor as limited) i had two encounters with two different limited crossfires, one fron dead stop at red light . ran for about 100 yds I was ahead all the way. the second one was two weeks ago,, we were on I-95 doing 60 ,,,up to 100 i won again. i can only say it is the 1/3 E-85 that i have been adding, both cars limited and C-320 weigh 3400 lbs and have the same engine, transmission, and rear end (327)
I am still modding my V8 crossfire, and making test at the track after each mod,,, so far it is V8 as most know i ran 11.78 next will be 2.5 down pipes from engine no cats to 3" exhaust will have a 3" flow through thrush in the middle( to reduce the noise),, to my SRT 6 muffler. |
Re: TO OR NOT TO USE <<e-85
Originally Posted by ShufStiX
(Post 916989)
As far as the ME2.8 can handle it would be up to a maximum of 40% E85 safe without adaptive tune. The Bosch is capable to handle that. As for 100% E85 you’ll need to get a tune. In Europe many running E85 to save cash at the pump. We have ridiculous prices. For those who say it will kill the engine well back in 2004 Mercedes made a C320 sedan FFV. FFV as flex fuel version and have same internals as our N/A. I crawled diagrams parts list etc etc and the main difference is the Bosch ME2,8 had a different fuel map and bigger injectors. On my N/A I’m on the work of a conversion. The only thing needed is specific injectors, a tune and AFR reading. That’s my 2 cent for doing it good. Some uses piggy backs and it work but I don’t like to trick the ECU. Regarding fuel lines, and seals they all are from NBR and therefore E100% résistant. N/A would need 240cc injectors, for normal driving application or 300/330cc injectors for racing use. SRT6 would need 550cc for normal street use and 730cc for racing application and powergains. cheers John To john, the only problem I’ve seen with doing the FULL e85 with the tune (and changing to larger injectors of course) is that from then on you HAVE to only use e85. You can’t switch back to regular gas unless you get a retune for the car. Niw this points me in the direction of the kits that companies make to convert your car to e85. Doesn’t require a retune because the kits run sensors for e85 % and they have PWM changers that run inline with your injectors to increase the PWM single to use the correct amount of fuel for e85. With that ^ you can use pump gas or switch back to e85 on the go. But... I don’t know any draw backs to it and would like your guys input. Also AMX I have been using 30% like you had said and I do notice a slight improvement. Especially in the mid power range. -Darren |
Re: TO OR NOT TO USE <<e-85
I am still using 1/3 also and like the performance increase in my c320 (limited crossfire drive train) I also started using 1/3 in my 2016 fusion 2.0 turbo started that last tank full and i see a difference in that already no it is not flex-fuel.
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Re: TO OR NOT TO USE <<e-85
I use Shell 91 or Nitro 93, no ethanol in it, anyone using regular gas in Canada gets 10 to 15% ethanol, to maintain a 10% across the board ethanol usage in gasoline. Gas with ethanol has a shorter shelf life so you have to add Stabil or equivalent when storing your car. Ethanol does cause damage to your car no matter what they say and gas wth ethanol gets poorer gas mileage, dries out rubber, any water in it causes corrosion, if you had any water in your gas tank it will get absorbed by the ethanol. I prefer my ethanol in single malts, beer or whatever. |
Re: TO OR NOT TO USE <<e-85
Originally Posted by onehundred80
(Post 917365)
I use Shell 91 or Nitro 93, no ethanol in it, anyone using regular gas in Canada gets 10 to 15% ethanol, to maintain a 10% across the board ethanol usage in gasoline. Gas with ethanol has a shorter shelf life so you have to add Stabil or equivalent when storing your car. Ethanol does cause damage to your car no matter what they say and gas wth ethanol gets poorer gas mileage, dries out rubber, any water in it causes corrosion, if you had any water in your gas tank it will get absorbed by the ethanol. I prefer my ethanol in single malts, beer or whatever. |
Re: TO OR NOT TO USE <<e-85
I would never trust E85 in a fuel system that was never designed for it. What good is a power increase if your fuel system is damaged?
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Re: TO OR NOT TO USE <<e-85
Originally Posted by David M
(Post 917367)
I would never trust E85 in a fuel system that was never designed for it. What good is a power increase if your fuel system is damaged?
December 2007 Energy Independence and Security Act signed by Congress and the President, which requires the use of 15 billion gallons of renewable (ethanol) fuel by 2015. In 2007 about 6.5 billion gallons were produced. 2007-2008 Surge in individual states mandating the use of 10% ethanol E10 gasoline.,, they wanted 40% but President Bush, a oil man from Texas, said no ,he would sign off on 10% ,,not 40 % yes you can still get ethanol free at 20% higher price, so David please don't use any ethanol in your car. jim |
Re: TO OR NOT TO USE <<e-85
for a few other facts:
In January 2011 the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) granted a waiver to allow up to 15% of ethanol blended with gasoline (E15) to be sold only for cars and light pickup trucks with a model year of 2001 or later. In 1896, Henry Ford designed his first car, the "Quadricycle" to run on pure ethanol.[27] In 1908, the revolutionary Ford Model T was capable of running on gasoline, ethanol or a combination.[27] [28] [29] Ford continued to advocate for ethanol fuel even during the prohibition, but lower prices caused gasoline to prevail As of 2005, 68% of American flex-fuel car owners were not aware they owned an E85 flex.[9] [10] Flex and non-flex vehicles looked the same. There was no price difference. American automakers did not label these vehicles.[10] [44] In contrast, all Brazilian automakers clearly labeled FFVs with text that was some variant of the word Flex. Beginning in 2007 many new FFV models in the US featured a yellow gas cap to remind drivers of the E85 capabilities. not everyone agrees that it could or should be used in a crossfire I for one think 33% could be used if not all the time then at least on race day. I am not telling any one to use it. read everything you can before you do. here is where it was posted in years before. jim https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...n-ethanol.html |
Re: TO OR NOT TO USE <<e-85
Originally Posted by amx1397
(Post 917391)
I am not the first , in fact our government made all oil co's. add E10 to your fuel (that's 10%) and E85 is 85%
December 2007 Energy Independence and Security Act signed by Congress and the President, which requires the use of 15 billion gallons of renewable (ethanol) fuel by 2015. In 2007 about 6.5 billion gallons were produced. 2007-2008 Surge in individual states mandating the use of 10% ethanol E10 gasoline.,, they wanted 40% but President Bush, a oil man from Texas, said no ,he would sign off on 10% ,,not 40 % yes you can still get ethanol free at 20% higher price, so David please don't use any ethanol in your car. jim |
Re: TO OR NOT TO USE <<e-85
Originally Posted by onehundred80
(Post 917365)
Gas with ethanol has a shorter shelf life so you have to add Stabil or equivalent when storing your car. Ethanol does cause damage to your car no matter what they say and gas wth ethanol gets poorer gas mileage, dries out rubber, any water in it causes corrosion, if you had any water in your gas tank it will get absorbed by the ethanol. I prefer my ethanol in single malts, beer or whatever. |
Re: TO OR NOT TO USE <<e-85
I am waiting for warmer weather and clear roads I will then data log 91 octane in the V8 vs 33% E-85/91 octane and post results. After I chatted with Jim the other night I did some research as well and lots of folks are doing this and I can't find a reason not to try it.
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Re: TO OR NOT TO USE <<e-85
Originally Posted by DragonSlayer129!
(Post 918177)
I am waiting for warmer weather and clear roads I will then data log 91 octane in the V8 vs 33% E-85/91 octane and post results. After I chatted with Jim the other night I did some research as well and lots of folks are doing this and I can't find a reason not to try it.
Unsure if that hat is actually a problem or if the computer is seeing it lean because it’s expecting regular gasoline to be used. any thoughts on this would be great! |
Re: TO OR NOT TO USE <<e-85
Originally Posted by AtomicBubbles
(Post 918179)
i will note that the other day I filled with the usual 3 gallons of e85 and 7 of 91 and after about 10 minuets of casual driving got a CEL for “System too lean” for both banks 1 and 2. I filled the rest up with 91 to even out the mixture. Reset the CEL and it didn’t come back. Unsure if that hat is actually a problem or if the computer is seeing it lean because it’s expecting regular gasoline to be used. any thoughts on this would be great! |
Re: TO OR NOT TO USE <<e-85
Originally Posted by amx1397
(Post 918254)
I don't understand what was going on because our engine requires high test being we in Florida have 93 ,and this is what i am using with the 3 gal of E 85,,, you used 91 octane and got a eng light doesn't make sense,,,,. just driving around easy maybe try 1 gal,,,, then try 2 ga,,,,l then back to 3 gal ! by adding the extra 91 , did you feel any change with power??
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Re: TO OR NOT TO USE <<e-85
don't know he has in his gas but.
all stations in Fl have a notice of ( up to 10% ethanol) some stations also have pumps that say NO ethanol. the no ethanol price is about 50% more than the regular, but the octane is up,, Oh! E85 (85% ethanol) is 108 octane. 3 gal of e85 +7 gal 93 =97.5 octane or maybe 98.1,,,,counting the 10% 3 gal of e85 + 7 gal of 91 = 96.1,,, or maybe 96.5 counting the 10% 3gal of e85 + 7 gal 89 =94.7 or maybe 95 counting the 10% maybe you can do your own math and put in the octane you want. PS found out they reduce the octane in all gas and then add the 10% ethanol to bring it back up |
Re: TO OR NOT TO USE <<e-85
Originally Posted by amx1397
(Post 918260)
don't know he has in his gas but.
all stations in Fl have a notice of ( up to 10% ethanol) some stations also have pumps that say NO ethanol. the no ethanol price is about 50% more than the regular, but the octane is up,, Oh! E85 (85% ethanol) is 108 octane. 3 gal of e85 +7 gal 93 =97.5 octane or maybe 98.1,,,,counting the 10% 3 gal of e85 + 7 gal of 91 = 96.1,,, or maybe 96.5 counting the 10% 3gal of e85 + 7 gal 89 =94.7 or maybe 95 counting the 10% maybe you can do your own math and put in the octane you want. If you wanted to save money on gas costs you should have purchased a smaller car with a smaller engine. Maybe you would be better of on the Prius forum. 😜 Surely the highest MPG can be got using 100% gasoline. The more ethanol in the fuel the more damage can be done to components not designed for high ethanol blends. What ratio of ethanol to gas is the most efficient for our cars? I for one prefer no ethanol, burning a fuel lower in latent power seems a waste of time to me. Ethanol use is good for farmers income and bad for countries where corn is a staple in their diet, due to the higher prices. |
Re: TO OR NOT TO USE <<e-85
100 some times you just don't get it. some of us want power and don't give a (100) about gas mileage,, do your self a favor and drop off this thd. , in fact go to the Volkswagen forum you will fit in perfectly.
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Re: TO OR NOT TO USE <<e-85
Originally Posted by amx1397
(Post 918279)
100 some times you just don't get it. some of us want power and don't give a (100) about gas mileage,, do your self a favor and drop off this thd. , in fact go to the Volkswagen forum you will fit in perfectly.
Some of what you say is misleading and could cause engine damage, you are not always right no matter what you think. My previous post which you got mad at is based on facts not some wishful sense of power felt through the seat of your pants. Ethanol contains less power than gas, sure the octane rating is higher but that means squat. Give us the facts and nothing but the facts. |
Re: TO OR NOT TO USE <<e-85
[QUOTE=onehundred80;918283]
You like to hear your own voice too much, LOL,,, the end |
Re: TO OR NOT TO USE <<e-85
[QUOTE=amx1397;918309]
Originally Posted by onehundred80
(Post 918283)
You like to hear your own voice too much, LOL,,, the end You may know more than the average bear but I can’t see it here. How can you get more power out of something with less latent power in it? You seem to equate more power from higher octane ratings. |
Re: TO OR NOT TO USE <<e-85
[QUOTE=onehundred80;918310]
Originally Posted by amx1397
(Post 918309)
It seems when you are faced with facts you would rather start insulting someone than offer plausible rebuttals, you sound like someone in power somewhere south of us up here.
You may know more than the average bear but I can’t see it here. How can you get more power out of something with less latent power in it? You seem to equate more power from higher octane ratings.
Originally Posted by amx1397
(Post 918309)
E15 (15% ethanol, 85% gasoline) is a higher octane fuel available in 29 states at retail fueling stations. E15 was approved for use in model year 2001 and newer cars, light-duty trucks, medium-duty passenger vehicles (SUVs), and all flex-fuel vehicles (FFVs) by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) in 2012. in 2018 Nebraska and some states close to it are, along with the fed gov. trying to get E 15 into all gas powered vehicles in their states,, supported by EPA and other gov. divisions also E33 is being studied in 15 states for the 2001 and newer vehicles. the study just started in Jan 2019 so no answers there yet, but my test so far have shown positive results |
Re: TO OR NOT TO USE <<e-85
[QUOTE=amx1397;918353]
Originally Posted by onehundred80
(Post 918310)
100 again U R wrong my facts speak for themselves E15 (15% ethanol, 85% gasoline) is a higher octane fuel available in 29 states at retail fueling stations. E15 was approved for use in model year 2001 and newer cars, light-duty trucks, medium-duty passenger vehicles (SUVs), and all flex-fuel vehicles (FFVs) by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) in 2012. in 2018 Nebraska and some states close to it are, along with the fed gov. trying to get E 15 into all gas powered vehicles in their states,, supported by EPA and other gov. divisions also E33 is being studied in 15 states for the 2001 and newer vehicles. the study just started in Jan 2019 so no answers there yet, but my test so far have shown positive results I am amazed that you can put all this twaddle out and believe it is a rebuttal of all I have said. What you state is quite true but as I have said before octane has nothing to do with the power potential in a fuel. |
Re: TO OR NOT TO USE <<e-85
after using 1/3 E85 for 3 months , added to my fuel in two cars a 2002 mercedes c320 ( same engine as a limited crossfire and a 2016 ford fusion 2.0 turbo yes it gives you a little more power but it decreases your miles per gal. I do not recommend adding 1/3 E85 for everyday use,,,,,,,(unless your car is a flex fuel and you want more power).... I looked at the fuel injectors and pump and hoses all look good.. I will use it when i go to the track as a power booster
i will report back after i try it at the track jim |
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