Experimenting with Toluene
 

I just purchased a five gallon pail of the stuff from Sherwin Williams. Cost came out to $60 or $12.00/gallon.

2 gallons of toluene for every 14 gallons 92 octane fillup is about 95 octane. This comes out to $70 for 16 gallons or roughly $4.38 a gallon.

Haven't tested it yet, but I do suspect the car is pulling timing on 92 octane (The best I can seem to find around here).

Does anyone here have access to 95+ octane fuel? How much does it cost a gallon? Also, does anyone have a cheaper source of toluene?

Re: Experimenting with Toluene
 

You can usually find it cheaper at the privately owned hardware stores and often in larger containers. They may ask for ID and some paperwork to be filled out, but its worth it. I know in this area they have to keep a list of anyone that purchases it to notify the FBI if something happens.

Stock is around 30 degrees retarded. Just the nature of the beast.

Re: Experimenting with Toluene
 

30 degrees retarded is very, very retarded. Are you talking about the NA crossfire or the SRT6?

Re: Experimenting with Toluene
 

Re: Experimenting with Toluene
 

moth balls...no...

How much is the 110 octane race fuel in VA per gallon?

Re: Experimenting with Toluene
 

That's the N/A. We have a scanner that reads ignition timing and yea it's sad.

We have Sunoco Race fuel over here for 6.50 a gallon. I think it's 103.

Toulene is pretty safe if mixed the right way.

Re: Experimenting with Toluene
 

yeah toluene is good stuff, has somewhere around 116 octane, and it has a lot of HydroCarbons, so your milage will jump up to around 30mpg in the city and 35-38mpg highway.

California makes it hard to get due to the crackheads use it for making meth. it also very expensive here, use to be cheap 4 years ago.

I think VIP fuel has a 103 race gas, with more pop than toluene but cost about $80 for the metal can, hardly worth the money .

Re: Experimenting with Toluene
 

Good info guys. I still can't believe that the stock XF engine retards 30 degrees. Is that ATDC? Unbelievable. Now it makes sense why these aftermarket chipsets can make 10% more power than the stock tune. At over $6 a gallon for 103 octane, I guess this Toluene mix is fairly cost effective, dollar-for-dollar, even with the over-the-counter Toluene that I bought.

I just ran a 30 mile test on 10 gallons of 92 octane and 2 gallons of Toluene. Total equivalent octane is 96.

The engine felt much more powerful in the low rev ranges (subjectively speaking). Highway passing in sixth between 2000 and 3000 rpm was definitely more powerful with 96 octane than on straight 92 octane.

Strangely enough it felt as if the acceleration gets weaker between 3000 and 4000 rpm.

I can feel the car push me back into the seat between 2000 and 3000 rpm but then between 3000 and 4000 rpm it just feels flat. Don't get the wrong idea, this car is *fast*. But the difference is noticeable. More so now with the high octane fuel.

Re: Experimenting with Toluene
 

interesting, i may look some up and give it a try. i notice a big drop in power depending on where i get gas and this would be nice for those weaker fill ups.:D

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I run Sunoco 94 octane in my car, I just got some last week and if I remember right it was $3.49 a gallon.

Re: Experimenting with Toluene
 

Kath over in Roseville (right off of 694 and rice st) has 104 unleaded and I think like 112 and a couple of other leaded octains. There is also a 76 station in Maplewood right on Century and 7th st (east side of north st paul) that also has 104 unleaded

Re: Experimenting with Toluene
 

we have 110 here around 7 bucks a gallon...

Re: Experimenting with Toluene
 

Toulene is pretty safe. I wouldn't run more than thirty percent (3 gal tol+7 gal gas) in the tank. Did you add any trans fluid for a lubricant? About three ounces for every gallon added as a safety measure is the average I have found in most race gas recipes. Indy used this in the early 80's at 85% and was making 1000 hp per liter between 50 and 75 psi of boost. They would have used 100% I think but there was a octane limitation rule. I bet you could even replace the methanol in an injection unit with it.

Re: Experimenting with Toluene
 

Woohoo! Finally, a performance nut from MN speaks! Thanks!!

Now I know where to take my turbo car!!

Re: Experimenting with Toluene
 

30 degrees is a lot of timing... I think the pistons are getting too hot from the oil sprayers, I think a big oil cooler with fans is a must, heck the srt6 comes standard with one.

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I might be thinking of something else.......but I think it was the tire manufacturers that got on indy's case about the fuel being used. The cars were making more and more power and the teams were blaming the tire makers for not making a product that would last. Eventually, the tire manufacturers told them to switch the fuel or they would no longer supply tires.

Re: Experimenting with Toluene
 

Maxwell,

Can you explain what you mean by "too hot from the oil sprayers" ? I must be misunderstanding you because that doesn't make much sense to me.

Since the oil is operating at 200-225 degrees, it should always be cooler than the temperature of the combustion chamber.

As far I understand, an oil cooler is used to radiate excess heat put into the engine oil by the combustion process. This in addition to the coolant. This is why modifying thermostats rarely does anything in this car - the amount of heat dissipated by the engine is limited by the radiator and radiator fans, not by the thermostat.

Therefore, the oil cooler is only a must IF the engine makes more power. It doesn't go the other way around (cooler oil=more power, that isn't right at all.)

Re: Experimenting with Toluene
 

I agree 100% with you sonoronos.

Im fairly certain that the heat being exerted on the pistons is fully from the combustion process. If the oil in any way contributed to extra heat on the pistons it would be such a negligable amount that it's not even worth worrying about.

The purpose of oil coolers in high-performance engines is to help get a longer life out of the oil, and in no way helps to "cool" the engine any further than reducing friction.

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A guy @ school has a "worked" twin turbo 300ZX. He said that the Sunoco in West Chester, PA (corner of 202& US1) has 110 octane @ 8.78/ gallon. Cost him 130.00 to fill his tank. I though he was retarded (and more than 30 degrees) but wanted a 10 sec. car so he gotta pay to play.

Re: Experimenting with Toluene
 

there are oil sprayers under the pistons, I remmember HDDP said this cars oil runs the oil at a very high temp, hence the reason why we need synthetic oil, other wise this motor would coke up.

if you can get the the oil temp down with a larger oil cooler, the oil will absorb more heat from the pistons, thus cooling them further, and alowing more timing advance on the ignition. those of you who are getting ecu tunes, your putting more timing in your maps, so your burning the fuel longer in the cylinders which adds more heat to the piston. so you want to remove as much heat from the pistons as possible, thus the reasoning behind why the SRT6 has an oil cooler. more pressure=more heat= more detonation for that CR

so you can make more hp if you add more timing, but if you add more timing you might get detonation because of the pressure is heating the fuel too soon, so you reduce the pressure by taking the heat away from the piston, and avoid hot spots on the piston so you avoid pre-ignition. now you can add more timing due to resistance for detonation.