The Forum's Obsession with Spacers - WTF?
 

After much of the transgressions and recent threads, I suppose I should start with this. :( I have not created this thread with the intentions of bashing, bad-mouthing, or speaking ill-willed/fated of any member of this forum. With that said, please read the following and then my sig. :)

The following information is applicable to track-prepped cars and street cars. however, i will keep it primarly limited to street cars. what is the obsession with spacers on this forum? i understand the 'need' to use them when to keep tires/rims from rubbering inner fender wheels or components. however, doesn't anybody know the damage that can be caused by using them? And yes, i know that since our cars have IRS we don't have to worry about this as much as those who have solid axles, but how many of you are aware of the fact that using spacers will cause ACCELERATED WEAR OF YOUR WHEEL BEARINGS?? it just seems ironic that so many of us spend so much time and money going out of way to take care of our cars to an extreme and to avoid other items that cause evelated levels of wear and tear, yet majority of this forum readily uses spacers.

now then, the reason spacers cause accelerated wear is because they change the position of the load on the bearing to the outside or inside instead of the middle (Usually the middle, anyways) causing premature wear, noise, and possible failure. and a failed wheel bearing, whether front or rear, is catastrophic. Also, they move the load the same way on the wheel studs causing the same problems/issues, however, it should be noted that broken studs are much less likely and that extended stds should be used.

now it should be noted that the spacers themselves do not typically have problems, they just tend to cause them. it should also be noted that those who complain on spacers coming loose are idiots and it's the installer's fault for not torquing them properly, not the spacer's (unless a random manufacturing defect).

i wonder how many people have roaring/rumbling noises caused from fried wheel bearings, aware or unaware? the solution to all of this would be to use wheels with correct offset/backspacing. oh and illegal in many areas.

http://www.conceptonewheels.com/images/offset.jpg
http://www.ahrinternational.com/wheel_bearing.jpg

Re: The Forum's Obsession with Spacers - WTF?
 

I'm with you on this one and wouldn't use them for the reasons you describe. I'd rather spend more money buying correct fitment rims.

Re: The Forum's Obsession with Spacers - WTF?
 

I use hub centric spacers and they are problematic. But they are cheaper than custom rims, they make the car look nice on lowered cars and make a difference on the track. I check my wheel bearings often because of the racing I do. I've had wheel bearings go bad before on other cars and it was indeed caused by heavy aftermarket chrome wheels with aggressive offsets. But hey, wheel bearings don't cost much (speaking from memory) and are easy to replace.

Les

Re: The Forum's Obsession with Spacers - WTF?
 

any modification has it good and bad points, and most that are modding on here know that already. Unless someone is hanging their wheels outside of the wheel well, I doubt any harm will come to our wheel bearings. Most aftermarket wheels are lighter, and offset usually less than 30mm is marginal. You are correct in your findings, but I believe the german engineers have done their homework here. Those racing, track racing, have more to worry about, than those of us going straight. But we are putting more load on those bearings than the everyday driver, so they should always be inspected more frequently than the manual recommends.

Re: The Forum's Obsession with Spacers - WTF?
 

When you find an extensive amount of wheels that fit without spacers let us know. That's why I (and I know many of us) use wheel spacers.. There just aren't that many VIABLE options for custom wheels without spending thousands of $$$ that fit.

Re: The Forum's Obsession with Spacers - WTF?
 

Thanks for the information, Shinobi.

Re: The Forum's Obsession with Spacers - WTF?
 

I learned my lesson about wheel spacers. That being said, I've had to have the bearings on the back passenger wheel replaced twice, which had nothing to do with spacers. The first set of bearings went bad very quickly. I had to have my axle shaft replaced as well. This is on my race car. I don't make that many left turns, so I'm real surprised that these bearings have gone bad.
The race car is put up for the winter, so we'll see how it feels this spring when I take it back to the track.

Jane

Re: The Forum's Obsession with Spacers - WTF?
 

Depends on your definition of "viable". Mandrus offers about a dozen styles for around a thousand bucks. When I looked there were a few other options available also. My Milleniums fit without a spacer.

Perhaps these are not "custom" enough for you, but if the wheel was truly custom, why not get one that fits?

Re: The Forum's Obsession with Spacers - WTF?
 

well i don't know about those 'german' engineers, but i'm an american one in this industry and know the math involved and the results of screwing with offsets. for example, moving the load on a tapered roller bearing to the inside by 0.05" (a few mm of offset) is typically enough to seize it within a relatively quick time. prolonged use of a seized bearing can cause the cages to separate spewing the guts inside the machined bearing enclosure causing it to have to be THOROUGHLY cleaned or in most cases replaced. the other result is that it will "turn" as one unit. keeping reading to find out that that does.

twice? did the same shop do the service on the second one that failed? did they repack it or replace it both times? did they clean the housing or replace it both times? that's not surprising that the axle shaft had to be replaced. its common on independent suspensions that when the bearing seizes and "turns" as a unit, it turns the axle shaft into a torsion bar. :(

Re: The Forum's Obsession with Spacers - WTF?
 

The first time, the bearings were replaced, but I don't think much analysis went into the situation. The bearings went bad right away as soon as I got back to the track. When I took the car to my racing mechanic, we couldn't even get the tire off. I knew something wasn't right. There was so much play in the rotor it wasn't even funny.

So this last time, I think the Crossfire mechanic finally looked at the situation much more carefully. I also reminded him that I'm looking to him to make sure I'm safe on the track, as he knows what I'm doing with that particular Crossfire. We'll see next spring if he gotter done.

Jane

Re: The Forum's Obsession with Spacers - WTF?
 

Wow! You sure hate spacers. I don't like using them but since I upsized my tires on the stock rims, I had to; for clearance reasons. I got some 5mm spacers but they were too problematic. So I got hub centric 10mm spacers now. No issues with them. I have to torque the wheels in steps or I'll get a vibration but other than that, all the Who's in Whoville are content. There have to be 10's of thousands of spacers on cars out in the world and the only negative noise I hear is concerning balancing problems. Occasionally some buz about premature wheel bearing noise. I'll agree that it's better not to use them if possible, but geez, wheel spacers are not as dangerous as smoking or talking on the cell phone or texting while driving. Or taking FDA approved medicine for that matter. I'll keep my 10 mm spacers until my $1300 tires wear out and I can replace them with the stock size. And since I race the car at the track, I'd say the front ones (where I use spacers) will need replacing during 2010.

Les

Re: The Forum's Obsession with Spacers - WTF?
 

I just want people to be educated cause most people don't know the downs about them. they just think it'll make their wheels fit and that all's good. WRONG... and when something does go wrong, they're so uneducated that they want to blame everyone else except there ignorant selves for their own mistakes.

3 step torque process is the correct method.

and I understand what you're saying, but majority of the work I do is on track cars and street/strip cars that cost more than my house, and when the cars make to me, I get to see all of the problems on a regular basis that most people dismiss as "not common" or "rare occurrence".

Re: The Forum's Obsession with Spacers - WTF?
 

I'd never heard of a 3 step torque process for rims. I've never seen any shop use the 3 step process. I'll defer and just say, thanks for speaking up on this, we should be informed before using spacers and I learned some things from this thread. As with most modifications, the downside is greater wear and tear or loss of daily drive ability. For some the trade off is worth it, but your right in that it should be an informed choice and not one made out of ignorance.

Les

Re: The Forum's Obsession with Spacers - WTF?
 

you should always use a 3-step torque process in the correct torque sequence on any bolt or nut to reduce the amount of strain by spreading the load evenly and progressively. this will prevent you from warping the spacer, rim, rotor, hub, and/or mounting surface, as well as avoiding damage to the wheel bearings and other components.

Re: The Forum's Obsession with Spacers - WTF?
 

I have 8 mm spacers on my track car (not a crossfire) and never had an issue with bearings. I added the spacers because the aftermarket springs make contact with the tires. I'll have to pay increased attention to this though. My street wheels, oddly enough, were custom made with a more aggressive offset so a spacer isn't necessary.