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Old Nov 21, 2008 | 06:46 AM
  #54 (permalink)  
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Mike-in-Orange
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Default Re: Caught in the Crossfire at Capitol Hill

Originally Posted by blackxfire
We should not be bailing out the big three.
1) They have, since the 1970's been producing crappy vehicles. There is a reason why Toyota has taken the top spot in the world today. A quality product. If the American companies made equally reliable cars and trucks, they would still be in the running financially. People want to buy American but are tired of getting ripprd off!
It is not just a simple question of quality. The domestics have quality on par with the imports, in some cases better. There is certainly a perception of better quality, but that's about it. When it comes to quality of materials in small cars, it's tough for the domestics to compete because of the wage differences - too many things need to be cut back content wise. Example: a $25,000 domestic vehicle vs a similar priced Japanese vehicle - there's almost $2000 more in the domestic vehicle that goes toward paying wages/benefits, meaning in the Japanese vehicles that same $2000 goes toward better materials. Both cars are screwed together equally well, both have good mechanical life spans, etc. But the Japanese manufacturer has the freedom to put nicer materials in their cars.

This changes when it comes to very high profit margin SUVs and pickup trucks. Until very recently the domestics were the only companies building these things. The Ford F150 had been, up until a few months ago, the #1 selling vehicle in the US for a couple of DECADES!! Name a popular, full sized pickup from Japan 20 years ago.


Originally Posted by blackxfire
2) Yes, Unions do contribute to the problems. Union employees and benefit packages cost more to the companies that are trying to sell a product. That's why so much manufacturing has gone overseas. I have seen plenty of waste, time=money, on Union jobs.
Let's not forget the harrassment when "god forbid" a non-union employee walks onto a job site. Especially in big union cities. Talk about the need for an FBI racketeering investigation!
Your comments here about Union wages/benefits confirms my comments above.



Originally Posted by blackxfire
3) Amazingly, we don't hear the Asian automakers crying. We don't see their American non-union employees complaining about there jobs being cut. We don't hear about the American based, non-union automaker plants having to be shut down. Think about it open mindedly!
That's because, primarily, Asian companies are the ones who can profitably build smaller cars. Going to back to my comments above about content and perceived quality. A Camry or Accord (hell, even a Sonata for that matter) has a nicer interior than a Fusion or Sebring. Because the Asian makers can spend an extra couple grand to make them nicer, without pricing themselves out of the market!! Seriously, who buys the lesser contented vehicle for the same money? And the nicer materials will automatically give the impression of "higher quality". It just perpetuates the perception. Never mind the guy who's Toyota needed 8 warranty visits to the dealer in 3 years while my Chrysler products have needed 1 warranty visit in 8 years. Yet, somehow, that Toyota owner insists his car is of higher quality than mine. Perception. It's a Toyota. Let us all bow down.

So, what were the domestics to do? People looking to buy nicely equipped small to midsize cars found great offerings in Asian imports due to the above mentioned contenting issues. People looking to buy large SUVs and pickups (and goodness knows there were a hell of a lot people fitting this description) generally bought American - until recently there really weren't a lot of foreign choices. And the American companies loved it! Lots of sales (#1 seller for 20 years!!! Woo-hoo!!!) and lots of profits. So when the bottom falls out and nobody is buying SUVs anymore, the domestics take a huge hit. Meanwhile, we don't hear the Asian automakers crying. We don't see their American non-union employees complaining about there jobs being cut. We don't hear about the American based, non-union automaker plants having to be shut down because they're still building the cars Americans (now) want. They always have. Plus, they've got these little, very fuel efficient cars in production back home that have been selling well in Asia and Europe. The Honda Fit is a fairly new arrival in the US, but it's been in production for several years elsewhere. Same holds for several models from Toyota, Nissan, et al. And it is so much faster (months vs years) to alter these for US sale than to develop a brand new Dodge or Chevy from the gound up.

Quite honestly, if Union wages for the Big3 weren't so damn high, and if Americans hadn't had this absurd, stupid obsession with SUVs for the past many years, the domestic auto industry wouldn't be in such a mess.


Originally Posted by blackxfire
4) I apologize if I offended anyone. Just wanted to vent like everyone else!
No offense taken here.
 
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