View Single Post
Old Jun 29, 2009 | 09:44 PM
  #27 (permalink)  
Kurts's Avatar
Kurts
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,984
Likes: 0
From: N.E. Wisconsin
Default Re: God, religion, and life in general

Man, I LOVE this thread so far!
John, good to see your contribution & I'm glad you joined us ! I know Erzer dangled a big juicy carrot in front of our faces; I was hoping you'd put your 2 cents worth in. It's nice to read each others musings on what we believe WITHOUT (so far) coming to insults & other less than civil griping.
Anyways, you & I (& Franc) have been down this road before & we've always kept it at a conversational level! Besides, in this thread Erzer asked for our thoughts, not an argument about who is right or wrong & neither you nor I are going to convince each other that either is wrong. Since that's the case it doesn't do anyone any good to argue!

I've got some catching up to do with this thread but I'll start with you & hope that you don't mind me making a few observations & posing a few questions.
To your comment about athiests knowing the Bible or place-your-particular-holy-book here. Knowledge is understanding, understanding leads to the truth. It behooves any athiest to make an attempt to understand just where a true believer is coming from not to mention that learning about one book or another puts one in a position to make his own judgments about questions he may have. I don't study the Bible any longer, did plenty of that in my younger years, though I still will, from time to time, drag it out to check a reference or 2, I do study ancient civilizations & that's where I first began to make the connection that 'something doesn't smell right here'.
I think I may have put down in some earlier thread about just how I got to where I am today on this whole religion thing so I won't repeat it but suffice it to say that if the basic stories, the very base of a particular religion, the cornerstones let's say, are tainted or make no sense or cannot be reasonable or can be found to be completely plagiarized it kinda places the whole religion under suspicion. This is true of the Bible, the Talmud & especially the Koran. I haven't read or spent much time with any Hindu books so I can't comment on them but I would doubt that they have anything different about them as far as truths go. I would also think (remember, opinion here ONLY) that if any Christian would actually spend time reading the Bible without relying on 'Cliff notes' from his pastor or priest & make his own judgments he or she would begin to have doubts.

And a little doubt keeps us humble & keeps us questioning & searching.

So, yes, perhaps you're right & that's a shame. A shame that more Christians (or insert faith here) don't actually read what they are purporting to believe.

Now, if I may, a couple of questions: Do you honestly believe that you could not have straightened out your life, to your own satisfaction, without relying on a crutch of religion? Do you not think that, given the right motivation, whatever that may be for you, that you could not have corrected what you believe to be an issue by using the talents & the knowledge you've obtained over the course of your young life? This is going to sound bad & I certainly DO NOT want it come off that way but: do you have such little faith in yourself that you feel you needed an outside force to help you? You were experiencing what darn near every young person I've ever known has experienced & done in their lifetime. You were not behaving badly just burning off some 'young man angst'.
And to further the question: do you not feel that, given your past & the early religious upbringing you had that this unnecessary guilt you were feeling was brought on by the same thing that you were proud of as a youngster? In other words, the guilt you were/are feeling was given to you by the very same religion/God you believe in?

Now I know that many, many people have sought help when things are bad in their life. I could tell you many a story about counselor's, mental health institutes, psychiatrists & daughter's sexually molested at 13.
Not to mention drugs & fees & paperwork.........

But these things my wife & I lived through were serious issues & issues that we were unable to cope with, not issues with a partying lifestyle or a perception of misdeeds. Praying to a deity that may or may not exist & hoping for an answer seems to be a whole lot of wishful thinking when wishful thinking wasn't going to be any help!

Once again, thanks John! I always appreciate a meaningful discussion with you. I never fail to learn something from our conversations !
 
Reply