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2004 Cranks, starts and dies. It's not the SKREEM. Help Please!!
I'm having the notorious "3 strikes and you're out" symptom but it's NOT the SKREEM.
My car was running perfectly fine until I go out one morning and it cranks, starts, runs for less than a second and then dies. Three times and then nothing, not even the starter will turn with the key. I unhook the battery and repeat the cycle just to make sure and get the same result. It's consistent and repeatable. After reading post after post (and trying some cheaper fixes first), I contacted Needswings and was assured it was in fact the SKREEM, guaranteed. I buy a new one from them, including a new transponder ring, install both and still, same problem. $800 gone. I then send the whole system (with new SKREEM) to SOS Diagnostics, have them test it and was told there was nothing wrong with my ECM/SKREEM/keys and everything was programmed properly and functioning well, proven in their test car. Now I'm just trying anything else that seems related. I have re-soldered the fuel relay connections on the RCM thinking maybe that's it? It wasn't. I have replaced the crankshaft position sensor. Also, not the problem. I'm really hoping someone has some ideas because I'm all out, please help! All suggestions welcomed. |
Re: 2004 Cranks, starts and dies. It's not the SKREEM. Help Please!!
Well, what you describe, is the SKREEM not telling the ECM that it's "Ok to start".
So, if you changed the SKREEM and ring and it still won't start - why would the NEW SKREEM also not work? Well, if the RFID chip in the key fob is bad or missing, you'd get these symptoms. Have you replaced the key fob? Did you run the key fob thru the washer by accident? Do you have a second key you can try? Other than that, I suppose it COULD be the ECM, they RARELY go bad, but if it is not operating right in that it can't interpret the SKREEM data, I suppose that could be it, but ECM failures are just so extremely rare, I just can't imagine that is it. |
Re: 2004 Cranks, starts and dies. It's not the SKREEM. Help Please!!
Originally Posted by blankenshipl09
(Post 918008)
I have re-soldered the fuel relay connections on the RCM thinking maybe that's it? It wasn't..
,email him for the cost tighed1@hotmail.com send it to TIGHED1 3601 Pinnacle Ct Sierra Vista, AZ 85650 |
Re: 2004 Cranks, starts and dies. It's not the SKREEM. Help Please!!
Sometimes the solder joints may be good but the relays are bad.
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Re: 2004 Cranks, starts and dies. It's not the SKREEM. Help Please!!
Disconnect the electrical plug on the MAF. The car is designed to run (all be it not well) without it. If it then runs, this will indicate that a new MAF will solve the problem. Search for a similar thread posted by me in 2018.
https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...w-seconds.html |
Re: 2004 Cranks, starts and dies. It's not the SKREEM. Help Please!!
I went to solder my board but after I finished I had two of the plugs to fall out of the plugs...I need help and don't have a clue to start a thread!
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Re: 2004 Cranks, starts and dies. It's not the SKREEM. Help Please!!
Originally Posted by 1951sms
(Post 918031)
I went to solder my board but after I finished I had two of the plugs to fall out of the plugs...I need help and don't have a clue to start a thread!
"plugs to fall out of the plugs" does not quite tell us what is going on. One picture can clear it all up. |
Re: 2004 Cranks, starts and dies. It's not the SKREEM. Help Please!!
I removed the RCM to solder the connections and went back to reinstall it...I had unlatched the tabs that hold the wires in place for the two front connectors. I have searched and searched and can't find anything that shows me the connector clearly.Will someone take a photo of your RCM and make my day!!
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Re: 2004 Cranks, starts and dies. It's not the SKREEM. Help Please!!
I definitely did not put my key through the washer. Also, I have 3 of them and have tried each with the same results. Since my last post I’ve replaced the rcm and still got the same symptoms. I also tested the MAF sensor and then installed a new one just to be sure. That didn’t make any difference either. I still have the same symptoms. Anyone have any other ideas? |
Re: 2004 Cranks, starts and dies. It's not the SKREEM. Help Please!!
What is the gas pressure on the fuel rail ? Should be about 58 psi.
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Re: 2004 Cranks, starts and dies. It's not the SKREEM. Help Please!!
Open the rcm.
Turn the key to the ON position. Two of the middle relays should be energized (engaged). Are they? |
Re: 2004 Cranks, starts and dies. It's not the SKREEM. Help Please!!
Fuel pressure was checked and is at 56 psi.
Looking at the rcm and turning the key on does engage two of the center relays. It actually engages the three center ones on start but one opens after a second. (Manually closing it does not keep the car running) I installed a brand new, fully charged battery. I pulled the engine cover off and tried to keep the car running (even momentarily) by spraying fuel directly into the intake to see if the car was cutting fuel and I couldn't keep it running, so apparently it's cutting spark. Thanks for all the replies so far. All help is much appreciated! |
Re: 2004 Cranks, starts and dies. It's not the SKREEM. Help Please!!
Originally Posted by blankenshipl09
(Post 918327)
Fuel pressure was checked and is at 56 psi.
Looking at the rcm and turning the key on does engage two of the center relays. It actually engages the three center ones on start but one opens after a second. (Manually closing it does not keep the car running) I installed a brand new, fully charged battery. I pulled the engine cover off and tried to keep the car running (even momentarily) by spraying fuel directly into the intake to see if the car was cutting fuel and I couldn't keep it running, so apparently it's cutting spark. Thanks for all the replies so far. All help is much appreciated! https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cro...8f74f43412.jpg |
Re: 2004 Cranks, starts and dies. It's not the SKREEM. Help Please!!
Originally Posted by blankenshipl09
(Post 918257)
I definitely did not put my key through the washer. Also, I have 3 of them and have tried each with the same results. Since my last post I’ve replaced the rcm and still got the same symptoms. I also tested the MAF sensor and then installed a new one just to be sure. That didn’t make any difference either. I still have the same symptoms. Anyone have any other ideas? I am glad you checked all of the keys. This does have the classic symptoms of bad SKREEM. Since PIZZAGUY knows the entire start sequence we might need a refresher. Pure logic and process of elimination still come back to the SKREEM. Here is why; the third try and no crank. If this were some other component the SKREEM would register the key as good and continue to let the car try to start but since it is disabling the further attempts you have to look at all the SKREEM does to prove it has the correct key and is able to tell the rest of the starting process to continue past the 3 tries. IE, bad CPS still allows the user to crank and crank and crank as many times as needed but no CPS signal no start. No fuel pressure no start but cranks like mad. Etc. Etc. The 3 tries and done point TO the SKREEM. Did you perhaps swap the key antenna for the FOB unlock/lock antenna at the SKREEM? Not even sure if that is possible with connector types. Does your trunk have water around the locking module? It may tell the SKREEM there is a fault kick the user from starting. Rodents in the car? That will do weird stuff! I am certain this is the SKREEM telling the car to stop the starting process but it's some external component telling it to. (like swapped antennas) |
Re: 2004 Cranks, starts and dies. It's not the SKREEM. Help Please!!
Originally Posted by KDW4Him
(Post 918336)
I am glad you checked all of the keys. This does have the classic symptoms of bad SKREEM. Since PIZZAGUY knows the entire start sequence we might need a refresher. Pure logic and process of elimination still come back to the SKREEM. Here is why; the third try and no crank. If this were some other component the SKREEM would register the key as good and continue to let the car try to start but since it is disabling the further attempts you have to look at all the SKREEM does to prove it has the correct key and is able to tell the rest of the starting process to continue past the 3 tries. IE, bad CPS still allows the user to crank and crank and crank as many times as needed but no CPS signal no start. No fuel pressure no start but cranks like mad. Etc. Etc. The 3 tries and done point TO the SKREEM.
Did you perhaps swap the key antenna for the FOB unlock/lock antenna at the SKREEM? Not even sure if that is possible with connector types. Does your trunk have water around the locking module? It may tell the SKREEM there is a fault kick the user from starting. Rodents in the car? That will do weird stuff! I am certain this is the SKREEM telling the car to stop the starting process but it's some external component telling it to. (like swapped antennas) |
Re: 2004 Cranks, starts and dies. It's not the SKREEM. Help Please!!
Originally Posted by KDW4Him
(Post 918336)
I am glad you checked all of the keys. This does have the classic symptoms of bad SKREEM. Since PIZZAGUY knows the entire start sequence we might need a refresher. Pure logic and process of elimination still come back to the SKREEM. Here is why; the third try and no crank. If this were some other component the SKREEM would register the key as good and continue to let the car try to start but since it is disabling the further attempts you have to look at all the SKREEM does to prove it has the correct key and is able to tell the rest of the starting process to continue past the 3 tries. IE, bad CPS still allows the user to crank and crank and crank as many times as needed but no CPS signal no start. No fuel pressure no start but cranks like mad. Etc. Etc. The 3 tries and done point TO the SKREEM.
Did you perhaps swap the key antenna for the FOB unlock/lock antenna at the SKREEM? Not even sure if that is possible with connector types. Does your trunk have water around the locking module? It may tell the SKREEM there is a fault kick the user from starting. Rodents in the car? That will do weird stuff! I am certain this is the SKREEM telling the car to stop the starting process but it's some external component telling it to. (like swapped antennas)
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Re: 2004 Cranks, starts and dies. It's not the SKREEM. Help Please!!
It’s the fuel pump relay that opens after a few seconds. The car will also stop if I hold it closed. This is with my old rcm. I have bought and installed a new rcm and, though I haven’t opened it to see what happens, the car will still die right after start. |
Re: 2004 Cranks, starts and dies. It's not the SKREEM. Help Please!!
Is the fuel pressure maintained after the relay opens?
The fuel filter has a check valve which is supposed to maintain the pressure between the time the relay opens and the engine starts. If its bad the pressure will drop off, the engine will not run and the filter needs to be replaced. Turn the ignition on and confirm the fuel pressure is maintained after the initial build up and before the starter is engaged. |
Re: 2004 Cranks, starts and dies. It's not the SKREEM. Help Please!!
Originally Posted by blankenshipl09
(Post 918566)
It’s the fuel pump relay that opens after a few seconds. The car will also stop if I hold it closed. This is with my old rcm. I have bought and installed a new rcm and, though I haven’t opened it to see what happens, the car will still die right after start. "Connected to the SKREEM is a Sentry Key Antenna Ring which surrounds the ignition lock cylinder. When the ignition is switched on, the Sentry Key Antenna Ring is sup- plied with power. A data block is transmitted inductively via the Sentry Key Antenna Ring to the SKREEM and then on to the Powertrain Control Module. If the antenna ring data block content is invalid or if vehicle battery power is too low to build up enough power for the antenna ring, the Powertrain Control Module will not receive the proper signal. This is displayed with the message “Start Error” in the Instrument Cluster." Have you measured this? "SKREEM TERMINATION With the ignition off. Measure the resistance of the SKREEM CAN C Bus termination by back probing the CAN C Bus (+) circuit to the CAN C Bus (-) circuit at the SKREEM C2 harness connector. Is the resistance between 110 and 130 ohms?" C2 is just a data connection. Are those wires good? Not crushed anywhere? Or the connectivity between SKREEM and PCM? "CAN C BUS (-) CIRCUIT OPENWith the ignition off. Measure the resistance of the CAN C Bus (-) circuit from the SKREEM C2 pin 1 harness connector to the PCM C4 pin 11 harness connector. Also C2 pin 2 to PCM C4 pin 1. Is the resistance below 5.0 ohms?" Is the ground near the SKREEM tight? |
Re: 2004 Cranks, starts and dies. It's not the SKREEM. Help Please!!
Originally Posted by Chooch
(Post 918354)
Per the pinouts shown on Service Manual Pages 8W-80-62 and 8W-80-63:
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