Attention to all Forum Members:

DO NOT TRUST CARFAX REPORTS!

I can tell you first hand that a Carfax report is unreliable. I operate 2 car dealerships and we stop using Carfax 3 years ago.

Here are the issues. First they do not guarantee that the report is accurate because they rely on the insurance industry to report all claims on every vehicle. Well that just dos not happen. In the USA there is no federal laws that mandate that insurance companies report all claims to a central system becsaue there is no such thing. It's strickly volentary. Some states may have some kind of required declaration of accident reporting but it is rare to find a state that does it.

Car dealers or wholesalers and even some shrewd privateers know how to get around producing a bad report. Most deal in vehicles from out of state knowing that nothing will be found.

FYI, Carfax has a giant class action law suite against them right now for vehicle report misrepresentation. They can not be trusted.

Before you purchase any car make sure that you perform a professional mechanical and physical vehicle inspection at a top notch service center and body shop.

Good luck members

 

That is correct. I've been told by a reliable resource in the car industry that Carfax reports are at best 80% accurate.

 

I have to agree with you on this. Friend bought a used G35 2 summers ago. beautiful car. Shown the Carfax by a reputable dealer here in Montgomery County Maryland and it was clean. He's an IT guy and one day after buying the car he found access to some other records on line and found out the car had been wrecked. He went back to the dealer with the print out and was given a brand new G35 to shut up and go away. At that point I lost my faith in Carfax.
There is a service that most major insurance companies subscribe to called LIS or Loss Information Service. Whenever we do a background check any REPORTED accident should come up on a particular vehicle. It does not track an accident that is paid out of pocket.

 

Great heads up advise. Nice to know there are people with intergrity in the car business.
Thanks for sharing.

 

This is a bit OT for the "SRT6" forum- however I can attest to this. I got burnt before when I bought a car with a clean car-fax traded it in at a later date only to find it had indeed been in an accident that never showed up until a year after owning the car. Car Fax washes their hands of this and states it isn't their fault- and doesn't tie in with their guarantee as it was a case of the data not posting to the Car Fax fast enough.

 

which means it's a good place to start. then YOU do the remainder of your homework (ie; inspection by a reputable, disinterested third-party, etc.).

a happy and safe 4th everyone!

 

Whoa, boys and girls! musicnsurf hit it right on the head. Don't drop Carfax because it is only 80% reliable. It's one toll. Before they came down the road you only had your wits, background and acumen to keep you safe.

80% is a 100% better than we had before!

 

right on...anytime you are investigating something, you use each piece of the puzzle to form your opinion...carfax is just one of them...forget the insurance report in there, and look at the registration info, the title info...they record where the car was titled, and where it was registered. You have the VIN...so, how hard is it to trace the previous owner? Not hard at all at this point...just do your research...

 

For some it's easier than others.

 

No way is Carfax 80% accurate on its reporting. In a recent national new cast investigation they found that over 70% of the Carfax reports failed to disclose real accident history. If they had 80% accuracy there would not be a class action law suite against them. As a car dealer we can't depend on Carfax reports at all. At best we got 50% out of them from their reports. At one time 3 out of 3 requests on 3 different cars all failed to report prior accident history.

If any one out there suffered financially due to Carfax my advice to you all is to jump into the class action law suite deal. You may win and be compensated for your financial loss.

 

What about the CarFax competitors like "AutoCheck" and a few others? Do they have the same type of problem? I believe EBay uses "AutoCheck" now as the default initial record scanner/reporter.

 

I said "at best 80% accurate", it goes downhill from there.

 

That's correct. I've never bought a used car without having them put it up a on a rack for me to inspect or taking it to my mechanic to get his opinion.

It's always best if you can get the books and records on the maintenance of the car. That's a good reason why Mercedes hold their value because they come with a book to record the maintenance that has to be done by a certified Mercedes mechanic.

 

Not to mention when someone has an accident and they don't go through their insurance.

But at least Carfax helps. As another said you can see the previous owners, plus things like mileage. On the Carfax for mine I was able to tell that before I got it, it was owned by the owner of the dealer.

 

Carfax is a TOOL not a CRYSTAL BALL. They can tell you ONLY what has been told to them---nothing more. They are not genies or gods for crying-out-loud. If you are not willing to do your homework on a car or a house or any other investment then do not cry foul afterward if something pops up at a later date.

Carfax is the STARTING POINT not the END POINT. It will tell you owners (not always accurate because dealers sometimes get counted, but a start), states which the car has been registered in, accidents if reported, miles at registrations, etc---a starting point. If you find something wrong, then you go to another car. If the Carfax is "clean", then you keep digging---you do not stop and think all is clear because ONE computer search says they found nothing.

There will NEVER be a full proof report on ANY car---EVER. I say this because whatever system is put into place, someone will find a way to beat it, so do your homework with a Carfax and other tools FIRST---THEN, check the car out PHYSICALLY. If you do not know what to look for then HIRE someone who does, but do not blame Carfax for the fact that you relied ONLY on a computer search, and that was it.

There are people out there that can find problems; body shops are a great place to go. They know the "tricks of the trade" to hide body damage. There is nothing wrong in trying to hide the damage; that is their job. If your car was wrecked, you would want the best job possible which would include no signs of damage---RIGHT?. But there is always "signs" if you know what to look for. And again---IF you do not, find someone who does---THAT SIMPLE! Carfax has its place, but what has happened is people get lazy and think they can find out EVERYTHING in one place---SORRY, but NOT SO.

The fact that smokinsrt6 is telling people to jump on the class action blows my mind. I buy and sell cars and Carfax NEVER said that they know it ALL---NEVER. They give a Buy-back Guarantee if they falsely report, but not if something was not reported to them. There is a BIG difference from lying and not knowing---and they do not know EVERYTHING---who does? REALLY, who knows everything---not you, not me, and not Carfax. Carfax tells you what they know---they never claimed it was EVERYTHING---it's just what they know. It is just one piece of the puzzle---the "starting" piece.

You can "TRUST" the information they sell you is TRUE; however, you CAN NOT believe that the information is ALL there is to know---big difference. This is where most people make their mistake. I will say again---Carfax does not claim that they know everything about the car!

In FIVE minutes or less I can tell you if a cars has been hit---without a lift, just looking at the body on the ground. I need the keys, so I can open the doors, the hood, the trunk, and gas cap door. If you do not have these skills, find someone who does, but DO NOT SUE because you were too lazy to do your homework and take the time to find someone to help you VERIFY a piece of paper. REMEMBER, Carfax NEVER looked at the car, so how can they know everything about the car? Simple---They can not!

EDIT: Wow, got on my soapbox---didn't I? BOTTOM LINE---get more than one source of information when buying ANYTHING major. Relying on just one source is putting all your eggs in one basket---not good because there is too much room for error. Also, never blame the tool if you do not know how to use it!

 

Hey Guys,

Carfax does promote to dealers and to the public that they are a peace of mind product. JimmyJames and most of you know eneough to perform your due diligence when buying any car. But most people do not.

As far as the class action suite goes I'm recommending that if you purchased a vehicle and suffer financial damages go out there and be compensated. I mean if your vehicle was misrepresented then bye all means try to recover some of your losses.

When we get duped unknowingly and we sell the car to a customer we give them their money back. If it's found out much later we work on compensation for the customer. We go after the person that we got the car from originally. It's only fair.

Lets not forget the car trade evolved from the horse trade, everybody tries to embellish what they are selling. Whether it's the blood lines of the horse or the originality of the car. The big difference today is we can make people own up to the B.S. if we want to.

 

First, I want to make clear that I am not trying to pick a fight with you at all. I am just trying to understand because I sell cars too. I have for 15 years now and NEVER have I heard one time that Carfax lied. I have heard that items did not show up, but NEVER did Carfax lie.

Carfax is a "peace of mind" product; they are not a "mind reading product"---big difference. I have never seen the Carfax rep claim they know "everything" about a car. And I disagree that MOST people do not know that they should CHECK OUT a used car before they buy it---to do due diligence.

People know to check out a used car, and just because they do not do it, does not make it a third parties responsibility. I am being serious, do you really believe that people think they do not need to check out used cars?

Used car salesmen have as many "bad" jokes as lawyers. We are called lairs and portrayed in cheesy, plaid suits with white belts and white shoes--as fast talkers and faster lairs that would sell their own mother. "This car was only driven on Sunday by a little old lady from Pasadena" is a standard line in a joke. You know this. And the general public knows it too.

I am not one of them and it sounds like you are not either, but please do not tell me that the general public has not seen and heard these jokes. They know to beware---they do, but if they CHOOSE not to, is that your fault, my fault, or Carfax fault? I am sorry, but the answer is NO.

Now, if a vehicle was misrepresented then YES, try to recover your loses, I am with you 100%. But Carfax does not misrepresent AT ALL. Their reports CLEARLY states items "reported" and items "found." There is nothing stating that this is ALL the information on the car. I just checked an old Carfax and everything I just said is 100% true, so where is any misrepresentation?

This is written on the top of the page on every Carfax Report: "This CARFAX Vehicle History Report is based only on information supplied to CARFAX and available as of (date) at (time (EDT). Other information about this vehicle, including problems, may not have been reported to CARFAX. Use this report as one important tool, along with a vehicle inspection and test drive, to make a better decision about your next used car." They do not claim that it is all for the information and clearly state that this report should be used as a tool. Click on the link marked information and you can read word for word what is written on Carfax. They even ask you to help them if you know something about a car that they do not know.

They also state on every report: "Before you buy a used car, we recommend that you get a CARFAX Report, take a test drive, and have the vehicle inspected by a qualified mechanic." They tell you exactly what to do, so you can protect yourself---step by step. I think this last statement is GREAT advice. So, I ask again, where is the misrepresentation? I do not see any; they CLEARLY tell you to find a QUALIFIED MECHANIC ---AFTER you get their report.

You say that you make things right which is great; I do the same thing---honor is hard to come by these days, and it sounds like you and I have it. But you say you "We go after the person that we got the car from originally." How? If it from an auction you only have until the end of the day unless you paid for a post sale inspection which responsibility then falls on the auction house and you should be compensated because you paid for a service, but the seller is in the clear after 5 pm. If it is before 5pm, you just turn down the car if it was "ride and drive." And what if it was a trade-in? Do you call up someone that you just sold a car and ask for money? Really, have you done that before? If you did, I doubt they brought you a check, and I know if you made that call you will never sell them another car.

You end by saying that "The big difference today is we can make people own up to the B.S. if we want to." I do not see the B.S. when it comes to Carfax.They never say "believe us and only us." They clearly say REPORTED and FOUND in their reports---the reports do not say this is ALL the information on the car; they actually say that this information may NOT be all there is on the car. They say all of this in several different places on the report. So where is the B.S.?

It is clear that you have a bone to pick with Carfax, and honestly, I do not get it. Carfax is a TOOL---their own words. They clearly tell you that ALL problems may not have been reported to them, and you should hire a mechanic to look at the car for any unreported damage---all of which is true and great advice. I will say again, DO NOT blame the tool, if you do not know how to use it---be it a wrench, a saw or a Carfax Report. A tool is only as good as the person using it.

 

Can not agree more with JimmyJames here... I have always told friends and family to NOT put their trust solely in a CarFax report.

Bottom line, CarFax should be one of the many tools on your "virtual tool-belt" that is used when purchasing a used vehicle. If you don't feel comfortable that you know how to spot repaints, frame work, and other tell tale signs of a damaged vehicle on your own... do yourself a favor and hire an independent contractor to do a thorough inspection FOR you.

It's just plain common sense.

EDIT: Actually I have a great story to go along with this...

My brother purchased a BMW 325i in South Florida a couple of years ago (that should be warning sign number 1... lots of good guys down there and a far greater number of BAD ones... this dealer was called Carstrada) that had a very very clean AutoCheck or Carfax. So he brings it home to me when I was living in Tampa. At first blush the car looks great, but then I start looking closer and IMMEDIATELY see signs of damage on the valance that clearly showed the valance had been repaired and straightened. I tell him to take the car back and get an exchange or a refund.

Well they obviously didn't want to give him a refund so they gave him another car, a 2005 Volvo S40 that looked even better when he brought it home. But after looking more closely there were clamp marks on the underside of the car. Turns out that these Carstrada guys bought AND turned the car in such a short amount of time, that the AutoCheck indicators that would show it was purchased at a repaired vehicle auction hadn't even had time to appear yet! A couple of months later the data showed up on the Autocheck. You just can't do enough due diligence when purchasing a used car.

 

The problem with "common sense" is it is NOT "common practice"---sad to say! Carfax gives you states of registration, number of owners, etc., but there is no way the can be held responsible for paint work---that's my point. People need to take your advice and I hope that your friends and family did.

It's like "mechanic in a can" no such thing---"car inspector on the net" is just as bad. If anyone really believes that a major car repair can come out of a can, or a full car inspection can come out of a computer----please wake up because you are dreaming!!

 

LOL, unfortunately not. See the story I added to my original post. Fortunately I was able to help him sell the Volvo on Ebay to a buyer with full disclosure, but he still took a bit of a loss.