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Re: Eurocharged CAA Dyno Results
Originally Posted by Franc Rauscher
Cheyenne Mountain I think.;)
Top Secret stuff you know? roadster with a stick |
Re: Eurocharged CAA Dyno Results
Originally Posted by HellFire
Are you talking about the car NEVER shifting from 4th to 5th or taking a few seconds to do so? Also, are you talking about it not wanting to shift when in Drive or when autosticking? Either way, if you do not typically drive aggressive, you may not have noticed this, but when you put a lot of torque down, the transmission is actually made to not shift immediately if you are not yet at the best torque curve in some situations, like aggressive driving. Basically, if you were playing with it a bit more than normal, to check out the new tune, you may just now be noticing a performance feature of the car. I actually like it, because I like to drive the twisty roads. Even if you have it in 3rd or forth and give it a lot of throttle, it will still downshift and hold that gear a bit. Most transmissions will up shift much sooner when the gas is let off. This car has a delay, so the car stays in the lower gear when the car senses performance driving. It took me a while to get used to, but as I said, it is good for the twisties, and I like it better. It may just be behaving like it is in performance mode more often now because of the increased torque. This of course, is just my understanding of it and I am no expert! LOL
I'm going to have to try some different things to see if I can explain it better or notice if there is a change between how I start out. Thanks for the explanation Franc, my head doesn't hurt and my finger can rest a bit ;) |
Re: Eurocharged CAA Dyno Results
Hi Franc,
So on the below graph, the box with "Max 165.3 HP" is the "before tune" maximum HP?
Originally Posted by Franc Rauscher
http://www.eurocharged.com/images/caa/073441.jpg
ERZER, There are two pairs of lines, blue and red Blue represents torque Red represents HP. The lower ones are your base line graphs. The higher pair is your modded values. Your max HP was 165 before the mod. 175.9 after. But you acheived the higher HP and torque at lower RPM's and held it longer. Your HP stayed well above 160 for most of the RPM range. Torque held above 190 ATW from 2400 RPM to 4000 RPM. But because you did not improve your injectors, you lost power and torque as you neared 5000 RPM and went lean. Still, Your engine has a remarkedly flat power band, especialy in the low end where you tend to drive. Custom tuned to you my friend. By the best. Eurocharged! roadster with a stick |
Re: Eurocharged CAA Dyno Results
Originally Posted by Wedge
Hi Franc,
So on the below graph, the box with "Max 165.3 HP" is the "before tune" maximum HP? franc |
Re: Eurocharged CAA Dyno Results
Originally Posted by Wedge
Hi Franc,
So on the below graph, the box with "Max 165.3 HP" is the "before tune" maximum HP? Red is the before-tune pull, blue is after. The 2 top lines are the torque curve, the 2 bottom ones are horsepower. Notice how the lines of the same color intersect at an RPM value of 5252 (hard to see on this graph, I know)? This will ALWAYS happen on a dyno graph that has RPMs as the X-axis. This is because horsepower is a calculated value: HP = (torque x RPM) / 5252. According to that graph, max HP pre-tune was about 156. |
Re: Eurocharged CAA Dyno Results
Originally Posted by Thumper SRT6
Nope. That is post tune. The different colored lines represent different pulls on the dyno.
Red is the before-tune pull, blue is after. The 2 top lines are the torque curve, the 2 bottom ones are horsepower. Notice how the lines of the same color intersect at an RPM value of 5252 (hard to see on this graph, I know)? This will ALWAYS happen on a dyno graph that has RPMs as the X-axis. This is because horsepower is a calculated value: HP = (torque x RPM) / 5252. According to that graph, max HP pre-tune was about 156. Thanks for the correction. |
Re: Eurocharged CAA Dyno Results
Originally Posted by Thumper SRT6
Nope. That is post tune. The different colored lines represent different pulls on the dyno.
Red is the before-tune pull, blue is after. The 2 top lines are the torque curve, the 2 bottom ones are horsepower. Notice how the lines of the same color intersect at an RPM value of 5252 (hard to see on this graph, I know)? This will ALWAYS happen on a dyno graph that has RPMs as the X-axis. This is because horsepower is a calculated value: HP = (torque x RPM) / 5252. According to that graph, max HP pre-tune was about 156. Still, that's a scary figure... 215 crank HP really translates into 156 usable HP. That's a significant loss of energy to the drivetrain... 28% to be exact. Based on that, the post-tune crank HP is only ~230... And these cars have a Needswings intake, right? Something ain't adding up... :confused: |
Re: Eurocharged CAA Dyno Results
Hi Jake, I'm some what confused on my numbers.After the dyno I thought you said my # was 283 and I had a gain of 38 RWHP. SRT 6 59088. I know the blower got hot and you had to do a "cool off" period, but I assumed it would be higher than 258. What am I missing? Runs like turpentined cat, no complaints there. Curiosity bugging me...
thanks John P |
Re: Eurocharged CAA Dyno Results
Originally Posted by FTroopChief
Runs like turpentined cat
|
Re: Eurocharged CAA Dyno Results
Originally Posted by Thumper SRT6
Nope. That is post tune. The different colored lines represent different pulls on the dyno.
Red is the before-tune pull, blue is after. The 2 top lines are the torque curve, the 2 bottom ones are horsepower. Notice how the lines of the same color intersect at an RPM value of 5252 (hard to see on this graph, I know)? This will ALWAYS happen on a dyno graph that has RPMs as the X-axis. This is because horsepower is a calculated value: HP = (torque x RPM) / 5252. According to that graph, max HP pre-tune was about 156. If this is the operating equation, HP = (torque x RPM) / 5252. then should not the related lines correspond in parrallel as RPM's increase/decrease? By your explanation, they do not. Or am I missing something completely? |
Re: Eurocharged CAA Dyno Results
Franc, if you are, you are not the only one.
How about Eurocharged chiming in on this and giving a Tune 101 instruction for those of us who are dummies and for those who maybe just forgot? |
Re: Eurocharged CAA Dyno Results
Originally Posted by Erzer
Franc, if you are, you are not the only one.
How about Eurocharged chiming in on this and giving a Tune 101 instruction for those of us who are dummies and for those who maybe just forgot? Or does it feel like more? Mine runs at least as fast as the Turpentined cat to which FTroop has referred. Mathematicaly, I have 60.6 more HP at the crank or 28% more boost to my butt meter everytime I push the throttle. Perhaps I should get my @ss recalibrated?:rolleyes: roadster with a stick |
Re: Eurocharged CAA Dyno Results
Originally Posted by Franc Rauscher
Does you Crossie feel like it got a pissy 6.7% gain (15) in HP from the tune?
Or does it feel like more? Mine runs at least as fast as the Turpentined cat to which FTroop has referred. Mathematicaly, I have 60.6 more HP at the crank or 28% more boost to my butt meter everytime I push the throttle. Perhaps I should get my @ss recalibrated?:rolleyes: roadster with a stick http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_12_10.gif I only got to talk to Jake briefly and took him for a drive so he could see how I drove and then left the keys with him. As I drive more highway than anything else, I trust he did what was best for my needs. Do I want or even need to be at max HP? Only to try and keep up with you and the other lead footers in the GCG. |
Re: Eurocharged CAA Dyno Results
Originally Posted by Franc Rauscher
Thumper,
If this is the operating equation, HP = (torque x RPM) / 5252. then should not the related lines correspond in parrallel as RPM's increase/decrease? By your explanation, they do not. Or am I missing something completely? Here is a simplified example. Let's assume a car has a constant torque value of 50 from 1000 RPM to 3000 RPM. If you calculate the HP at 1000 RPM, it would be about 9.5 HP. At 2000 RPM, HP would be about 19 HP. At 3000 RPM, HP would be 28.5 HP. This shows that there is a linear relationship between HP and Torque. But linear does not imply parallel. Hope that makes sense. If not, I can try to explain it better. |
Re: Eurocharged CAA Dyno Results
Originally Posted by Thumper SRT6
No, they would not be parallel. Parallel lines have the same slope; i.e. they are changing at the same rate. Since we have fairly flat torque curves, the slope of the torque line is approx. zero, meaning little change in the torque across the RPM range. But the HP will be increasing as you increase RPMs, even if the torque value does not change.
Here is a simplified example. Let's assume a car has a constant torque value of 50 from 1000 RPM to 3000 RPM. If you calculate the HP at 1000 RPM, it would be about 9.5 HP. At 2000 RPM, HP would be about 19 HP. At 3000 RPM, HP would be 28.5 HP. This shows that there is a linear relationship between HP and Torque. But linear does not imply parallel. Hope that makes sense. If not, I can try to explain it better. Now I have a question about the dyno. I know that Mustang Dynos have been lower in results than Dynojets why if you know and how does this dyno compare to the others? |
Re: Eurocharged CAA Dyno Results
Originally Posted by Thumper SRT6
No, they would not be parallel. Parallel lines have the same slope; i.e. they are changing at the same rate. Since we have fairly flat torque curves, the slope of the torque line is approx. zero, meaning little change in the torque across the RPM range. But the HP will be increasing as you increase RPMs, even if the torque value does not change.
Here is a simplified example. Let's assume a car has a constant torque value of 50 from 1000 RPM to 3000 RPM. If you calculate the HP at 1000 RPM, it would be about 9.5 HP. At 2000 RPM, HP would be about 19 HP. At 3000 RPM, HP would be 28.5 HP. This shows that there is a linear relationship between HP and Torque. But linear does not imply parallel. Hope that makes sense. If not, I can try to explain it better. So perhaps we need to stop talking about gains in HP? roadster with a stick |
Re: Eurocharged CAA Dyno Results
Originally Posted by Franc Rauscher
I get it. But since torque is what moves the car great improvements in torque, which the Eurocharged guys seem to have unlocked, means great improvments in performace.
So perhaps we need to stop talking about gains in HP? roadster with a stick |
Re: Eurocharged CAA Dyno Results
Originally Posted by JimmyJames
That was perfect!!!! Your math teacher would be proud!!!! REALLY!
Now I have a question about the dyno. I know that Mustang Dynos have been lower in results than Dynojets why if you know and how does this dyno compare to the others? As for the differences between dynos, I don't know too much. I know of 2 types: Inertia and load-bearing (I think that's what they are called). They operate in different manners to determine torque produced by a car. Here is a page I found that goes into deeper explanation: DYNO From what I've seen, Dynojets (an inertia type dyno) will give you a number that, when you factor in drivetrain loss, gives you a crank horsepower rating very close to what car manufacturers publish. (Most stock SRT6's put down about 285 RWHP on a Dynojet, which gives a realistic 18% drivetrain loss to the wheels and a crank HP of about 350). Load-bearing dynos (Mustang Dyno) seem to give lower HP ratings, but are suppose to be a truer reflection of the actual power the car has. |
Re: Eurocharged CAA Dyno Results
Originally Posted by Thumper SRT6
Thanks!
As for the differences between dynos, I don't know too much. I know of 2 types: Inertia and load-bearing (I think that's what they are called). They operate in different manners to determine torque produced by a car. Here is a page I found that goes into deeper explanation: DYNO From what I've seen, Dynojets (an inertia type dyno) will give you a number that, when you factor in drivetrain loss, gives you a crank horsepower rating very close to what car manufacturers publish. (Most stock SRT6's put down about 285 RWHP on a Dynojet, which gives a realistic 18% drivetrain loss to the wheels and a crank HP of about 350). Load-bearing dynos (Mustang Dyno) seem to give lower HP ratings, but are suppose to be a truer reflection of the actual power the car has. |
Re: Eurocharged CAA Dyno Results
Hey guys! Cool that you guys always bring up things that you don't understand, unlike some of the MB folks who just act like they know what's going on. A simple question and a lot of others can gain some valuable information!
Let's take this example. http://www.eurocharged.com/images/caa/073441.jpg The red line represents the stock run, and the blue line is the tuned after run! Now, the top pair of colored lines is torque to the wheels, the bottom is horsepower to the wheels. Now, numbers are just that numbers. Never look at dyno results on products and expect your car to do the same thing. The same car will dyno different numbers based on the environment (temperature/humidity) and day! Drive your srt out on a nice cool fall day, then drive it during late july and it will be noticeably different! Our dyno is what is called a load bearing dyno (dyno dynamics) We chose this brand over others like a dynojet as when the car is run, the dyno places a load on the wheels to simulate the car running on the street. This way, when tuning the car, you will get the same performance on the street as the dyno! Not all dyno's are the same, and you can't compare results from one to the next. My car will put down 50whp more on a dynojet then our dynod. Numbers are just that, numbers. Can you feel a difference? Does the car perform differently at the track? Do you run lower et on the 1/4 mile? (with a 30wtq difference you definitely will) Now, back to the graph. Most people compare max to max when looking at numbers. What you really need to look at is the difference between the graphs at the various rpm ranges on the bottom (ramp) In the posted graph let's look at the torque curve on the top. Look at around 2500 rpm. (just left of the B in BRAKE) You will notice that stock is around 165wtq. Now look at the tuned graph. Torque is now at 194ish. That quite a gain (approx 30wtq) at the beginning of the rpm band, when you're really getting into her, and very noticeable on the butt dyno. In the tunes, we also change things like the red line limit (bump it up), modify shift points, and modify fueling in that you actually will see a gain in mpg post tune. We do other things as well, but that should give you a good idea to start with. Yes, technically there is a formula for calculating hp/torque. But, with simple changes in the programming of the car, we can alter the way the car performs. For example, lets take a car with a hp of 200 and torque of 200 on the dyno. I can remove some fuel and modify timing and increase the hp by 20hp, and then make some other changes and keep the torque the same while maintaining the increase in hp. By the formula, the reading should be the same, but it definitely is not. We always assume 18-20% drive train loss in the cars, under ideal conditions. But, when you add miles to the car, things do change. Now add in the fact that two srt6 hand built engines can dyno within 15whp of each other stock for stock from the factory. Not every car is the same! Make sense? |
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