Do you want to know how much your intercooler pump flows?
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From: VA
Do you want to know how much your intercooler pump flows?
In evaluating the potential benefits of my parallel water path intercooler versus the stock intercooler 3 pass design I became more aware of the IC pumps contribution. The original pump ( 10 series ) has been replaced by many for performance gains and to replace a failing pump. When the development of the Super cooler first started, I measured the factory set-up and saw only about 1.5 GPM thru the HE and IC.
With the 30 series pumps that number jumped near 3 GPM due to greater capacity and pressure. This is where most of us are at today, better than stock.
To test the IC's effect on water flow I took several videos of my car in the garage while changing the IC's configuration 1*. In a nut shell I checked my car with the stock IC, my 30 pump and supercooler to get a baseline water flow. That came in at about 2.7 GPM with a battery charger to keep the results consistant.
Next I tested the water flow with the IC removed to see the maximum water flow - possibe. I also tested my car with the parallel core IC I made to see how that altered the water flow.
Finally, I put everything back together and ran a 4th test to confirm my baseline readings - Repeatability of my setup. Hope you gain a better appreciation / take something away after seeing these videos.
Testing the far with the stock IC in place - baseline readings
Testing the car without the IC ( deleted ) to check max flow.
Testing the car with the parallel path IC core ( Frankencore
)
Testing the car in the original configuration to confirm readings
What I have taken from this testing is that the 30 series pump is maxed out at about 3-4 GPM in a car setup depending on the IC flow path - parallel or 3 pass series water path. The parallel path can easily flow more water, and its the pump that has limited any flow improvements. More flow will scrub - turbulent flow - more heat from the IC. It appears that greater water flow has the potential to lower IAT and even out the spiking of out inlet air temps ( given that you are using a SEPARATED IC WATER CIRCUIT and that your car has a BIGGER THAN STOCK HE INSTALLED ).
To answer this question and see the potential benefits if they exist, I searched and found a bigger Johnson pump that is similar in design and rated lifespan to our 10 or 30 series pumps. Its called the 90 series and it IN THE MAIL at this time, so I can check its performance out. Also ebay has a greater flow meter, which is also on order and due for testing shortly.
The performance of the different pump capacities and pressures is shown in the following chart from Johnson Co. Iam thinking that modulating the voltage to the pump and thereby controlling its speed / pumping capacity; would be useful for normal and spirited driving situations.
Have a happy turkey day and be safe.
http://api.viglink.com/api/click?for...13535274575872
If you have not already seen the posts on the Technical & Modifications, there are more backup posts on this topic.
1* Baseline = 2.7 GPM - stock IC
Test #1 = 3.7 GPM - Parallel IC
Test #2 = 4.4 GPM - NO IC !
Test #3 = 2.7 GPM - stock IC to confirm setup
With the 30 series pumps that number jumped near 3 GPM due to greater capacity and pressure. This is where most of us are at today, better than stock.
To test the IC's effect on water flow I took several videos of my car in the garage while changing the IC's configuration 1*. In a nut shell I checked my car with the stock IC, my 30 pump and supercooler to get a baseline water flow. That came in at about 2.7 GPM with a battery charger to keep the results consistant.
Next I tested the water flow with the IC removed to see the maximum water flow - possibe. I also tested my car with the parallel core IC I made to see how that altered the water flow.
Finally, I put everything back together and ran a 4th test to confirm my baseline readings - Repeatability of my setup. Hope you gain a better appreciation / take something away after seeing these videos.
Testing the far with the stock IC in place - baseline readings
Testing the car without the IC ( deleted ) to check max flow.
Testing the car with the parallel path IC core ( Frankencore
)Testing the car in the original configuration to confirm readings
What I have taken from this testing is that the 30 series pump is maxed out at about 3-4 GPM in a car setup depending on the IC flow path - parallel or 3 pass series water path. The parallel path can easily flow more water, and its the pump that has limited any flow improvements. More flow will scrub - turbulent flow - more heat from the IC. It appears that greater water flow has the potential to lower IAT and even out the spiking of out inlet air temps ( given that you are using a SEPARATED IC WATER CIRCUIT and that your car has a BIGGER THAN STOCK HE INSTALLED ).
To answer this question and see the potential benefits if they exist, I searched and found a bigger Johnson pump that is similar in design and rated lifespan to our 10 or 30 series pumps. Its called the 90 series and it IN THE MAIL at this time, so I can check its performance out. Also ebay has a greater flow meter, which is also on order and due for testing shortly.
The performance of the different pump capacities and pressures is shown in the following chart from Johnson Co. Iam thinking that modulating the voltage to the pump and thereby controlling its speed / pumping capacity; would be useful for normal and spirited driving situations.
Have a happy turkey day and be safe.
http://api.viglink.com/api/click?for...13535274575872
If you have not already seen the posts on the Technical & Modifications, there are more backup posts on this topic.
1* Baseline = 2.7 GPM - stock IC
Test #1 = 3.7 GPM - Parallel IC
Test #2 = 4.4 GPM - NO IC !
Test #3 = 2.7 GPM - stock IC to confirm setup
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Joined: Sep 2009
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From: Tampa, FL
Re: Do you want to know how much your intercooler pump flows?
Woody, do you ever work, besides on R&D? lol
Nice job on the flow tests!
I haven't had a day off work in 11 days... I can barely find time to do laundry!
Nice job on the flow tests!
I haven't had a day off work in 11 days... I can barely find time to do laundry!
Senior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,166
Likes: 6
Re: Do you want to know how much your intercooler pump flows?
IC (InterCooler) is in the front of the car.....some cars have air/air - ours has air/water....
CAC (Charge Air Cooler) is what the Inlet air goes through on its way to the manifolds and the cooling water picks up on its way to the IC (at the front of the bumper)
Looking forward to definitive evidence that increased flow = more heat removal.
It's your show but.....
Can I suggest you work in reverse as "addition of heat" is the same is "extraction of heat".
Setup your vacuum through the CAC with a constant flow of say your 250cfm - although it would be good to test at least 2 flows by throttling the downstream side of the Vac. Dont throttle the inlet to the CAC as you have in previous videos as it will reduce pressure and lower the air density/heat capacity.
Now setup a hot and cold water tap with a temperature sensor and run it through the CAC at 2.7GPM.....turn the hot and cold taps until you get 100F in the water and 2.7Gpm.....measure the temp coming out of the CAC water side.
Now measure you ambient and the discharge temp from the cooler....and see how much temp the air side picks up from the hot water - as opposed to how much it looses (when it's in the car)...like I said - forward and reverse heat transfer across the CAC should be the same (in our range of operating parameters).
You now have a test bench!
You could go one step further and measure the air flow through the CAC.
With this rig you could
change the water flow rate whilst keeping the inlet temp constant.
change the water inlet temperature whilst keeping the flow constant
change the vacuum intake volume whilst keeping the other 2 constant and....etc....
You might even be able to use the warm air discharge from the vac for a couple of tests.....
At each test you are calculating the BTU's/hr removed from the water. Knowing the inlet temp and outlet temp from the CAC water and the inlet flow rate - that's your BTU's/hr (assume 4.2kJ/kg for water cp.)
Given the aluminium block itself is a source of capacity - before turning on the water, I'd let the air stabilise for a minute before taking a reading. You might even glean some info on how long it takes the system to equilibrate after you actually do turn the water on - thermal inertia that is....
If I had "do-erability" as opposed to "sit on my a$$ think and gunna-ability".....
and of course if I had spare CAC lying around - I'd give it a go myself.....but as I said - it's your show. Keep up the good work.
CAC (Charge Air Cooler) is what the Inlet air goes through on its way to the manifolds and the cooling water picks up on its way to the IC (at the front of the bumper)
Looking forward to definitive evidence that increased flow = more heat removal.
It's your show but.....
Can I suggest you work in reverse as "addition of heat" is the same is "extraction of heat".
Setup your vacuum through the CAC with a constant flow of say your 250cfm - although it would be good to test at least 2 flows by throttling the downstream side of the Vac. Dont throttle the inlet to the CAC as you have in previous videos as it will reduce pressure and lower the air density/heat capacity.
Now setup a hot and cold water tap with a temperature sensor and run it through the CAC at 2.7GPM.....turn the hot and cold taps until you get 100F in the water and 2.7Gpm.....measure the temp coming out of the CAC water side.
Now measure you ambient and the discharge temp from the cooler....and see how much temp the air side picks up from the hot water - as opposed to how much it looses (when it's in the car)...like I said - forward and reverse heat transfer across the CAC should be the same (in our range of operating parameters).
You now have a test bench!
You could go one step further and measure the air flow through the CAC.
With this rig you could
change the water flow rate whilst keeping the inlet temp constant.
change the water inlet temperature whilst keeping the flow constant
change the vacuum intake volume whilst keeping the other 2 constant and....etc....
You might even be able to use the warm air discharge from the vac for a couple of tests.....
At each test you are calculating the BTU's/hr removed from the water. Knowing the inlet temp and outlet temp from the CAC water and the inlet flow rate - that's your BTU's/hr (assume 4.2kJ/kg for water cp.)
Given the aluminium block itself is a source of capacity - before turning on the water, I'd let the air stabilise for a minute before taking a reading. You might even glean some info on how long it takes the system to equilibrate after you actually do turn the water on - thermal inertia that is....
If I had "do-erability" as opposed to "sit on my a$$ think and gunna-ability".....
and of course if I had spare CAC lying around - I'd give it a go myself.....but as I said - it's your show. Keep up the good work.
Last edited by Billy22Bob; Nov 23, 2012 at 09:28 PM.
Thread Starter
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Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,508
Likes: 34
From: VA
Code words for you; Iam on holiday. Like ur idea, will refine it and try approach. Measure the delta water as i have flow meter gives BTU directly. Taaaaaa. Daaaaaa. Like it, Woody
QUOTE=Billy22Bob;710449]IC (InterCooler) is in the front of the car.....some cars have air/air - ours has air/water....
CAC (Charge Air Cooler) is what the Inlet air goes through on its way to the manifolds and the cooling water picks up on its way to the IC (at the front of the bumper)
Looking forward to definitive evidence that increased flow = more heat removal.
It's your show but.....
Can I suggest you work in reverse as "addition of heat" is the same is "extraction of heat".
Setup your vacuum through the CAC with a constant flow of say your 250cfm - although it would be good to test at least 2 flows by throttling the downstream side of the Vac. Dont throttle the inlet to the CAC as you have in previous videos as it will reduce pressure and lower the air density/heat capacity.
Now setup a hot and cold water tap with a temperature sensor and run it through the CAC at 2.7GPM.....turn the hot and cold taps until you get 100F in the water and 2.7Gpm.....measure the temp coming out of the CAC water side.
Now measure you ambient and the discharge temp from the cooler....and see how much temp the air side picks up from the hot water - as opposed to how much it looses (when it's in the car)...like I said - forward and reverse heat transfer across the CAC should be the same (in our range of operating parameters).
You now have a test bench!
You could go one step further and measure the air flow through the CAC.
With this rig you could
change the water flow rate whilst keeping the inlet temp constant.
change the water inlet temperature whilst keeping the flow constant
change the vacuum intake volume whilst keeping the other 2 constant and....etc....
You might even be able to use the warm air discharge from the vac for a couple of tests.....
At each test you are calculating the BTU's/hr removed from the water. Knowing the inlet temp and outlet temp from the CAC water and the inlet flow rate - that's your BTU's/hr (assume 4.2kJ/kg for water cp.)
Given the aluminium block itself is a source of capacity - before turning on the water, I'd let the air stabilise for a minute before taking a reading. You might even glean some info on how long it takes the system to equilibrate after you actually do turn the water on - thermal inertia that is....
If I had "do-erability" as opposed to "sit on my a$$ think and gunna-ability".....
and of course if I had spare CAC lying around - I'd give it a go myself.....but as I said - it's your show. Keep up the good work.[/QUOTE]
QUOTE=Billy22Bob;710449]IC (InterCooler) is in the front of the car.....some cars have air/air - ours has air/water....
CAC (Charge Air Cooler) is what the Inlet air goes through on its way to the manifolds and the cooling water picks up on its way to the IC (at the front of the bumper)
Looking forward to definitive evidence that increased flow = more heat removal.
It's your show but.....
Can I suggest you work in reverse as "addition of heat" is the same is "extraction of heat".
Setup your vacuum through the CAC with a constant flow of say your 250cfm - although it would be good to test at least 2 flows by throttling the downstream side of the Vac. Dont throttle the inlet to the CAC as you have in previous videos as it will reduce pressure and lower the air density/heat capacity.
Now setup a hot and cold water tap with a temperature sensor and run it through the CAC at 2.7GPM.....turn the hot and cold taps until you get 100F in the water and 2.7Gpm.....measure the temp coming out of the CAC water side.
Now measure you ambient and the discharge temp from the cooler....and see how much temp the air side picks up from the hot water - as opposed to how much it looses (when it's in the car)...like I said - forward and reverse heat transfer across the CAC should be the same (in our range of operating parameters).
You now have a test bench!
You could go one step further and measure the air flow through the CAC.
With this rig you could
change the water flow rate whilst keeping the inlet temp constant.
change the water inlet temperature whilst keeping the flow constant
change the vacuum intake volume whilst keeping the other 2 constant and....etc....
You might even be able to use the warm air discharge from the vac for a couple of tests.....
At each test you are calculating the BTU's/hr removed from the water. Knowing the inlet temp and outlet temp from the CAC water and the inlet flow rate - that's your BTU's/hr (assume 4.2kJ/kg for water cp.)
Given the aluminium block itself is a source of capacity - before turning on the water, I'd let the air stabilise for a minute before taking a reading. You might even glean some info on how long it takes the system to equilibrate after you actually do turn the water on - thermal inertia that is....
If I had "do-erability" as opposed to "sit on my a$$ think and gunna-ability".....
and of course if I had spare CAC lying around - I'd give it a go myself.....but as I said - it's your show. Keep up the good work.[/QUOTE]
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