Hi All
Sorry if this is a question that has already been answered , But which is the safest way of removing the orange peel look from the top/clear coat , I have just got myself a G220 polisher with 3 grades of polish & sponges & at the moment i am just using the swirl remover & finish polish , I did not want to go mad to start with as i am still getting use to the G220 , I did try a small area with some 2000 grade wet & dry (stone chip) but the orange peel lives on , Am i being too soft or is it better to do a little bit at a time , I do hand finishing master models at work as in full size Car body type models for CAD surface prove out but thats before painting & the model is a soft material . So any input will be great

I think i'm just being lazy & need to put more time in .

Cheers

Andy

 

Id try 800 then go up a bit like 1500 or 2000 but your removing the clear when you do this. Bee cool lest you go into the color coat. If you want to really get it smooth, then sand and clear coat it again so you have a surface to work on, Woody with Matte front color.

 

Honestly, on a factory clear coat I wouldn't recommend wet sanding to remove your orange peel - there just isn't that much clear on a factory paint job, just 2 mils or so (that's 2/1000 of an inch!). With 800 grit paper you'd go through it in no time if you don't know what you're doing. Even with 2000 grit you can remove more paint than you realize, and the only way you're going to effectively remove those sanding marks is with a rotary buffer, wool pad and a heavy cutting compound. I just don' t think it's worth risking on a factory paint job.

Removing half of that clear is enough to severly compromise the UV protection afforded by the clear coat, and you're setting yourself for serious paint issues down the road. I work for Meguiar's and we've been working directly with all the major paint manufacturers for years, and we've been in the OEMs for decades. We've got as good if not better a handle on this than most, for what it's worth.

 

Hi Mike in Orange
I was hoping you would chip in , Cheers for that as i do not have a paint depth gauge i will not know how much clear coat i have to work with , So the question is how good a finish can i hope for with my G220 + plus polish , I have looked at some top quality surface finished Xfires on this site & look at our Xfire & ask myself how do they get a finish as good as that . do they all have the paint work refinished or can you bring a factory finished Xfire up to that level , I know the flatter the clear coat the better (ie reflection from the paint) , so the orange peel on the clear coat gives you a poor reflection . im not asking for a quick fix i just need to know what level a can aim for with factory finished paint .


Cheers


Andy

 

Andy, I don't think you have Meguiar's M105 in the UK quite yet, but I know you have Ultimate Compound which is derived from the same abrasives technology. Halford's should stock it as should Autopitstop and Elliot's Car Accessories, among others. (Yes, I cheated and used the Stockist Locator at Meguiar's UK - Car Care Products )

I would suggest you wash and dry the car, clay it, then go over it with your G220 and a foam polishing pad with the Ultimate Compound. Don't be afraid to run the machine at speed 5 and use a good bit of pressure on the pad. I always recommend putting down enough pressure to stop the pad from spinning, then back off just enough to start it spinning again. Work in a small area, roughly 60cm square and overlap your passes by about 50%. Move that machine very slowly over the paint - take your time. The Ultimate Compound will stay wet for a very long time so in that 60cm x 60cm area you should be able to go back and forth, then up and down, then again back & forth and up & down. Wipe off the excess product before it dries and move on to the next area. It's always a good idea to do a test spot on the bonnet first, then pull the car out into direct sunlight for a critical evaluation. If you need to give it a second pass, do it. If a second pass still doesn't give the results you're after, I would try a foam cutting pad in a second test spot. A foam cutting pad on a machine like the G220 can at times leave a bit of haziness in the paint, although in so doing it can also more effectively remove severe defects from hard paint. If this haziness occurs then you'll need to follow up with a second pass using the polishing pad as a step down to finish. Hopefully a couple passes with the polishing pad will do the job and you can skip the cutting pad altogether.

After that you can go straight to a wax or, for a little extra pop, hit it with a pure polish or glaze before waxing. Just don't use a cleaner wax if you opt for the pure polish/glaze step - it will remove the polish/glaze!

That ought to get you started.

Cheers!

 

For me it was trial and error with gentle products. What finally got the results I wanted was a swirl and haze remover with an orange pad (I don't think Mike would approve) followed by the fine machine polish with a white pad and machine wax with a black pad. This was after using several brands of gentle polish with a white pad looking for what would work safely. My car looks real good but I'm still searching for that show car dripping wet look. I'm close though.

Les

 

OK, call me Mr. Stupid, but what is this "orange peel" you are talking about?

 

''Mr. Stupid"....

 

Hi InfernoRedXfire

Its the surface of the clear coat that is not completely flat to the surface of the colour(sorry color) base coat , It looks like the outside surface of an orange (not orange coloured) . if you look at the reflection of an object that has straight lines you will see zig zags on the edges like poorly drawn graphics on your PC , thats the orange peel on the top of the clear coat (poor reflections). hope this helps


Cheers

Andy

 

Thanks buddy!

 

Yeah, I'm familiar with "orange peel" texture for building walls and some cars behind the wheel wells but don't recall ever seeing it on Xfires.

 

Hi Mike-in-Orange

Is the stuff
Meguiars #105 Ultra-Cut Compound

What pad would you use with this polish. I have the 3 Sonus SFX foam pads ,



Cheers

Andy

 

Well it isn't supposed to be there. It is a paint defect or can be caused sometimes by harsh wear on the paint... a good number of xfire owners never experience this issue with the OCD like washing/waxing performed on there cars.

 

Hey, it's not up to me to approve or disapprove anything! As far as I'm concerned, if it works then great! I do agree with the concept of using the least aggressive process to get the job done, and I would rather see someone use a more aggressive liquid and less aggressive pad rather than a mild liquid with a cutting pad, but paint systems are all different and what works great on one may be totally ineffective on another. So bottom line, if it works for you then who am I to complain? Of course, since you admit to being less than completely satisfied with your results, you may want to try a very clear finishing polish with a more gentle pad as a final prep before waxing. Something like Meguiar's M205 Ultra Finishing Polish or 3M Finesse-It II used with either a polishing pad or even a finishing pad.

That's the stuff, Andy. I would start with the polishing pad (mid grade of the three) and only step to the cutting pad (firmest of the three) if yoiu aren't getting the results you want with the polishing pad. Again, keep in mind that the cutting pad may leave some haze in the finish even as it removes swirl marks, so you may have to follow with a second pass with the polishing pad and the same M105. You won't know any of this for sure until you start working on the car, so a test spot is always recommended.




RE: Orange Peel. You will be very hard pressed to find a factory paint job without some orange peel. Some are pretty good, others are horrible. Every Crossfire I've seen with a factory paint job has some level of orange peel. Interestingly enough, my PT Cruiser has very little. Among the best I've seen in factory paint jobs are Bentley, Rolls Royce, Ferrari (though not always), some Audis and a couple of McLaren SLRs (OK, these were almost perfect!). I've seen some S-Class Benzes with lots of orange peel, and plenty of custom cars with a fair amount too. It all comes down to how good the painter is or, lacking that, how much clear is laid down and then wet sanded to remove the orange peel. High end show cars and other custom paint jobs will make use of many coats of clear and then extensive wet sanding (usually 1000 grit followed by 2000 or even 2500 grit) followed by compounding and polishing. I know for a fact that some concours winning show cars (think Pebble Beach) have undergone $20,000 worth of wetsanding/compounding/polishing to get a truly flawless finish. That price does NOT include the paint job. Then again, we're talking cars worth millions of dollars so what's twenty grand between friends, huh?

 

Hi All

If you have a good look at a normal production car ie Ford , Vauxhall etc they are covered in orange peel , With going to water based paints is orange peel more common

Mike in Orange Cheers for all the infor', I will be start working on the Xfire this weekend or next weekend.



Cheers Again

Andy

 

Mike,

I have a new aspen and it has orange peel and no where near as nice finish as the crossfire. What do you suggest for it? I know you work for Meguiars and have used their products for a long time. Over the last few years I have changed over to race glaze and have liked the results. What Mequiars products do you recommend to get that orange peel out and get some deeper shine. To top it off it's the brilliant black color which is more like a deep charcoal gray with serious metal flake.
Thanks for your wisdom.
Cruzin

 

Cruzin, the ONLY way to get rid or orange peel is to wet sand, cut and buff the finish. But this is most definitely NOT recommended for a factory finish as there simply isn't enough clear present to do it safely. I'm a bit hesitant to link directly to the Meguiar's 5 Step Paint Care Cycle article on our company forum because I don't want to look like I'm just a shill for Meguiar's, but it is a pretty good read and explains a lot about what's going on with your paint, how to address various issues, and what it takes to bring out the best in a finish. If you Google "Meguiar's 5 Step Paint Care Cycle" it will come right up.

 

Hello Mike,

Thank you I will read up and go from there. I've actually talked to painters about color sanding and shooting a few more coats of clear. I've had mixed results as most don't think the oem paint is worth a hoot.

Thanks again,
Cruzin
P.S. I'm a huge fan of Car Crazy

 

Hi Mike
Well been all over the hood with the 105 UC & i seem to have very shinely Orange peel now this clear coat is hard stuff , Should i move on to a cutting pad with the same 105 UC , Or could a 2000 / 4000 grit disk do the job . I think i have a too lighter touch , i did the stop the disk spinning & back off thing .

Cheers

Andy

 

As I've mentioned before you will NOT remove orange peel simply by buffing the paint, and that includes with a rotary buffer and a wool pad. You must wet sand in order to remove orange peel. But, as I've also stated, it is NOT recommended to do this procedure on factory paint as there simply isn't enough clear present to safely eliminate the orange peel anyway. And even if you did have plenty of clear coat, which you do not, wet sanding is a very advanced process and should not be entered into lightly. You most definitely do not want to learn how to do this on a vehicle that you care about. Watching a few videos on YouTube is NOT sufficient to gain the proper technique and knowledge. Incorrectly sanding the finish will result in depressions in the paint, tracers left behind from the sand paper if you choose a low quality paper, and the very real posibility of sanding through an edge on a body panel. But even if you did an excellent job sanding, you then need to remove the sanding marks, and even 2000 grit marks are deeper than you might think. You will need a rotary buffer, a wool pad and a heavy cutting compound to remove those sanding marks, especially from paint as hard as that found on the Crossfire. Rotary buffing is another process you do not want to self teach. Again, the possibility of inflicing real damage is quite high, especially in the hands of a novice. A pro makes the process look downright simple, but the learning curve is pretty darn high. You can be highly skilled with a D/A buffer but that doesn't prepare you for what a rotary can do both for the paint and to the paint.

Bottom line: do your best to eliminate swirls and fine scratches, but live with the orange peel. Seriously.