Hey guys my wife just broke down and admitted what she was about to buy me for my birthday this weekend:

FLEX PE14-2-150 Rotary Polisher, FLEX circular polisher, rotary buffer, circular buffer, FLEX PE14

I've had my crossfire NA 2004 Limited model for a few years now and always have been complaining about the swirl marks in the paint from the previous owner. I've kept it in good shape since I've had it but I've been talking about getting a buffer for awhile and she caught on

I've been reading about the rave reviews on the porter cable buffers for the past couple of months and wanted to open a discussion on this flex buffer. I haven't heard of the brand but beyond hand application of waxes I've never ventured into the buffer arena yet. For the price point is this comparable to the porters I've heard so much about or should I steer clear of getting a flex buffer?

Been a long time reader of these forums thanks to everyone for all of your input!

 

Keep this in mind. Dual action may take longer BUT it is fool proof. I use the Griot method and machine. I also use their products for polishing BUT I prefer Meg's for waxing, etc.


View our video guide at
the bottom of this page! Welcome to our Dual Action Orbital Polishing Guide. Learn how to remove swirls and scratches, polish away oxidation, and apply wax using your Porter Cable 7424XP. These guides explain proper techniques and suggest what swirl removers, polishes, waxes, and sealants will give you the very best results. The techniques described on these pages will get you started on your way to smooth, shiny paint, regardless of the age of your vehicle.
Examples of a dual action polisher include the Porter Cable 7424XP 6” Variable Speed Polisher , the Meguiar's G110 Dual Action Polisher, the Griot's Garage 6 Inch Random Orbital Polisher and the Flex XC 3401 VRG Orbital Polisher.

What is a dual action polisher?

Dual Action polishers are characterized by the motion of the head. It spins on a central spindle, and this spindle rotates around an eccentric offset. A good metaphor for a dual action polisher is the earth’s orbit. The earth itself spins and it also orbits around the sun. Dual action polishers are also called orbital polishers for this reason. To the right is a simplified illustration of the underside of a dual action polisher, like the Porter Cable 7424XP or the Meguiars G110 Polishers. You can see how the opening for the backing plate sits off-center. The counterweight sits opposite the backing plate to balance the weight of the pad and plate to prevent wobbling.

The rotating and orbiting of the pad produces what many refer to as a "jiggling" motion. This irregular motion prevents the polisher from burning the paint, which refers to removal of paint below the clear coat surface. Dual action polishers are very USER FRIENDLY because they produce very little heat compared to a rotary polisher.

The same safety feature which reduces the possibility of damage from a dual action polisher also prevents it from removing very deep scratches. While a dual action polisher will improve the appearance of scratches and remove most swirls, it does not produce enough heat to cut deep into the paint.
If you need deeper scratch removal, this will require a rotary or circular polisher. Keep in mind, rotary polishers in inexperienced hands can quickly burn the paint. The pad spins at high speeds and it's up to the operator to keep the polisher moving at all times. If the polisher lingers for a second too long on one spot, it can burn through the paint. See our Circular Polishing Guide for more information.

Dual action polishers will improve the texture and luster of automotive paint with virtually no risk. They are the most user-friendly option for beginners and professionals, and they consistently produce beautiful results.
Note: Scratches that extend below the clear coat should be repaired by a professional. Attempting to remove these deep scratches could result in removing too much clear coat and causing the paint system to fail. If your fingernail catches on a scratch, consult a professional.

 

The above is maybe the best advice you can get. A rotary polisher in the hands of one without experience can ruin a car in seconds.

Porter Cable 724

Porter Cable 7424 Complete Starter Kit, Porter Cable 7424 buffer, Porter Cable power tools

 

I teach both DA buffer and rotary buffing classes here at Meguiar's - I've taught literally hundreds of people how to properly use both tools, so let me put it to you like this:

If I spent 30 minutes with you in a one on one training session on the DA buffer, I would be comfortable letting you buff out my car.

If I spent an entire day with you in a one on one training session on the rotary buffer, I doubt I'd be comfortable turning you loose on your own car.

The learning curves are that different with the two tools. If you use the DA wrong all you do is push product around and you get no results. If you use the rotary wrong you drop your car off at the body shop and pay them to repaint a panel.

That said, the Flex rotary you linked to is their new tool, and I happen to have one. It is, in a nutshell, freakin' incredible. This coming from someone who hates the Flex 3401 forced rotation DA. But I would still caution you against using one.

There are good DA buffers on the market, from Meguiar's G110v2 to the Griot's Garage unit to the Porter Cable 7424XP. They are pretty much all the same (although the 7424XP is a bit down on power compared to the other two) and you can use a wide variety of pads and liquids with them. I'm not all that impressed with the products Griot's makes to go along with the buffer, but there is an awful lot to choose from even if you decide not to go with Meguiar's products.

I wrote a fairly in depth introductory article on using the DA buffer for our forum - you can read it at D/A Buffing 101 – An Introduction to the G110v2 (and similar) - Car Care Forums: Meguiar's Online and it should give you some good insight into how to use the tool for maximum results.

 

Mike, I have a friend who owns a body shop not far from my house. I walk over and visit once in awhile. We had this same discussion. I lost a letter off the rear of the roadster, so I peeled the rest off and debadged it. I was trying to get the glue off when I scratched the paint. I thought damn, now I will have to get the trunk lid painted. Took it across the street to show him my damage, and said, you didn't ruin it. In 5 minutes, with his buffer, it was back to new, better than before. In right hands they can do really great things to the paint...He will buff both my cars real soon...it lasts all summer as long as I keep them clean...

 

Hi Mike

I am almost out of Griot's polishing products. Can you tell me the meg's products for light, medium and heavy polish. Thanks.

Joe

PS The TR6 cleaned up great. Thanks.

 

Thank you everyone for some very thorough answers! I've been properly scared away from the rotary buffer for sure now I'm going to do some comparing on the different DA buffers and see if I can't get a nice kit like you linked maxcichon. You probably saved me from burning a hole in my paint for which I'm eternally grateful!

I'll post some before and after pictures on whatever model I get.. cannot wait to get started!

 

watch the edges...real easy to burn an edge as the paint is thin there...just take it slow...I take mine to the body shop only because we are friends, and he doesn't charge me much, you know beer, wine, dinner with the spouses....lol....and he makes it look so easy, when it isn't...

 

Late to put in my thoughts but.....

After reading all of the various posts about buffing I went with the G110v2.
Had no idea what I was doing 'cept for the advise given here on CrossfireForum.org, and my cars look like a pro did them.

Looks like a few hours researching here will keep you from having to go visit Mike for an hour out West!

 

My pleasure. I suggest not only watching the video that Mike-in-Orange linked to, but think about joining that forum. You'll learn more about car-care than you can imagine! Mike is a God when it comes to knowledge and advice.

Listen to him. Most of us do!

My son washed his '97 TownCar for me to compound and polish while he's out in the freshly polished and waxed xF roadster.

He'll get a lesson in paint repair when he returns. Good Lord, there is a LOT of paint on this car! But it sure looks nice for 170K and 14 years.

 

For working on the Crossfire I'd stick with Ultimate Compound on a polishing pad at a fairly high speed on the buffer (5 for sure) and follow with Ultimate Polish on a finishing pad at a reduced speed - 3 to 4 range. Finish off with whatever wax floats your boat. Ultimate Compound and Ultimate Polish each run around $10/bottle at WalMart or most larger auto parts stores, but they are derived from our top of the line pro stuff - just tweaked to make them a bit more user friendly on a DA.

If you look through the "Pictures from Saturday Classes" section of the meguiarsonline.com forum you'll see a huge range of vehicles that we've taken from crap to gorgeous easily with these products. It's what I use when teaching those classes.

Keep in mind that the above is just a good starting point for the vast majority of vehicles. You get out what you put into it, meaning if someone doesn't take the time to learn proper technique with the tool they won't get the kind of results they want. By the same token, you can adjust that technique for different paints (well, honestly, you have to) and you can take additional steps, and devote more time, to get the best finish possible. It's not unusual for me to spend upwards of 10 hours on the paint alone when detailing a car. My own Crossfire, a 2005 model purchased new in the summer of 2007, was mess when I got it. I put almost 20 hours of rotary work into it to get it where I want it. That's a LOT of time for a two seater car with no roof!! But then again, I'm a wee bit over the top with this sort of thing.

 

I am in the maret for a new buffer too. My 15 year old 10 DA still works but I am ready for something that doesn't beat up my arms and hands. that Felx loos real good. Mayby I should get that and prctice on the wifes car Also the Cyclo loos really well made. anyone try one of those? The Maguires and Griots looks like the same buffer?

 

The Meguiar's G110v2 and Griot's may look like the same tool, but they aren't. While loosely based on the Porter Cable 7424 they were both developed by their respective companies to outperform that tool, and they do. In fact, both offer more punch than even the 7424 XP, but the Meguiar's DA is quieter than the Griot's tool. Obviously I'm partial to our own unit, but if you can't source one (they're still on backorder for the next couple of weeks) then go with the Griot's unit. But do yourself a favor and skip their pads and liquids - you can easily outperform them for less money. And skip that awesome Flex rotary unless you really know how to use one - the rotary is an incredible tool in the right hands, but very dangerous in the hands of a novice.

The Cyclo is heavy, expensive, and just a single speed. It's also large enough that getting into a lot of areas can be a pain, if not darn near impossible.

 

Thank you for the advice! I am not in a huge rush but I do want to spend some quality time on my car's appearance in the near future. I wasn't planning on using Griot's liquids but I do get confused with all the Maguires products. There are certain Maguires products I have used for years such as their spray detailer and tire and rubber dressing natural shine. I have used the NXT, gold class and Maguires Carnuba, Scratch X, and some of their glazes, in the past which wasn't bad for a daily driver but not really in the same league as Zaino for indoor shows. I have always done my car by hand and used the DA buffer on the wife and kids cars.

I would like to get the paint on my SSB Crossfire where it would look awsome under flourecent lights at an indoor show. What are your thought for this in the Maguires line? Have you ever tried Surf City products? Zaino? I haven't used Zaino on the Crossfire yet because it is too much work to do by hand on a daily driver. I thoght with a machine, I might use Zaino on the Crossfire.

 

Back in the day( 1979) I was a "Tidy Car" dealer and did paint sealants, pin striping, detailing ,etc. We used the CYCLO buffer, it had a differnet name, but was the same unit. I still have one that am going to refurbish. It needs a new cord, grease, etc. but still works. I need to get new pads,etc. for it. It always worked very well, you just have to be careful around the windshield, tight places, etc. as it can get caught and cause small damage if not used properly. As to the polishing compounds, polishes, etc. I have not used very many. I would also be interested in what everyone thinks. I still had a couple of cans of the "TIDY CAR" sealants that were great at the time, but I'm sure that there are better products available now.

 

Mike-in-orange wrote:
For working on the Crossfire I'd stick with Ultimate Compound on a polishing pad at a fairly high speed on the buffer (5 for sure) and follow with Ultimate Polish on a finishing pad at a reduced speed - 3 to 4 range.

Well I have to report I used it today on the TR6 and I can't tell you how great a product these two are. Now bear in I already had 10 hours on that small car and I put another five in today. Just wish I knew how to load pictures. It is a navy blue color and there is NOT a swirl mark on that 12 year old paint. Mike thanks again. By the way it was only about $8.00 a bottle.

Joe

 

Glad it work it out so well for you, Joe. I wanna see those pix though!

 

Question! Some pictures below of end result not sure if I messed one of the steps up. Before we get there want to explain the process I used:

Alright so yesterday I washed my crossfire with NXT Generation car wash and clay barred it with Smooth Surface clay bar kit. That actually took about 8 hours (had a lot of road grime and the back of the crossfire had a -lot- of embedded dirt grime that took over an hour just rubbing all of that out.

Pic 1: After I clay barred. These were all taken in my garage with 500w halogens and I forgot to white balance my car is alabaster white though.


Today I took out the Porter Cable 7424 HD w/4" Lake County Orange Light Cutting Pad. I applied Ultimate Compound (dab in the middle) spread it before turning the buffer on, and buffed at a speed of 6. I started out on 5 but it wasn't getting the swirls out so I re-did it with 6 and left it there the entire rest of the compound buffing. I put a moderate amount of pressure but jumping on the forums I just read about the technique of pushing until you start to bog the motor down then letting off a bit. I kept pressure on but was careful not to bog down the motor so I think I might have been a little lighter then suggested.

Pic 2: After Ultimate Compound DA Buffing


After that I used a White CCS 6.5" Polishing Pad with Ultimate Polish on speed 4 with light pressure (the pad didn't look like it could take much so I tried not to have the pad pressed in enough that it bowed up around the backing plate.)

I then used Ultimate Liquid Wax using hand applicators

Pic 3: After Ultimate Polish DA Buffing & Ultimate Liquid Wax by hand


Now my question is about the little flecks you see in Pic 2 & 3, was there any way I could have avoided those, did I mess up somewhere along the way and cause those? Overall I'm very very happy as these pictures are very macro looks at the paint job. It got dark before I finished today so I wasn't able to take a daylight picture but I did pull it out of the garage after polishing earlier and it looked very impressive. I'll get some daylight pictures of it tomorrow but for now here's a pic of the hood in the garage:



The flecks are only noticable if you're really inches away from the paint otherwise it looks very nice right now

Is that normal or what did I do? Thank you for all the help you guys have been wonderful !

Oh and here was a before picture (this was how the swirls were over the entire car)

 

The tiny flecks are essentially impact damage from tiny bits of stuff hitting the car at speed. They are a sign that the car is driven on public roads - yes, it happens to all of us, it's just more noticeable on certain colors, primarily non metallic paints. There really isn't much you can do about them, but you certainly did not cause them by doing what you did. All the swirls that were present before you started actually masked these little pits, which is why you didn't notice them before.

Overall though, you did an outstanding job removing swirls from what is, in my experience, very hard paint. Good for you!!

 

Mike, Hawk, Max, thank you all so much! The only reason I was even introduced to the buffer (and the DA buffer) is because of this forum and you guys. I'd have still been using a mitt and random cheapo car washes if I hadn't of been so well informed coming across this forum I really appeciate everyone here this is a great community! I feel like I've just started with this little project there's so much left to do getting this car where I want it but for now this is a fantastic start! These are my photos from yesterday when I'd finished the third coat of wax:







I can't thank you guys enough you've been such a great help in getting me here. Thank you!