Big Oil and the Truth
Originally Posted by seayyard
Some of you are so brainwashed into believing all of what you see on the news and what you hear from "GOVERNMENT SPOKESMEN" Its all a charade!!! I got a guy down the street that runs his car on old vat grease!!! Oh there are other forms of fuel!!! He gets 400 miles on a 20 gal bucket that costs him $5 bucks!!! That's not BS!!!
OK, so the guy down the street has a diesel engine car that smells like french fries when he drives. That is great for him (really, it is). But when you do a little investigation (so easy a brainwashed caveman can do it), you will see that in the U.S. there are only around 100 million gallons of used cooking oil "produced" each year. Sounds promising, except that we use 140 BILLION gallons of gasoline each year! So there is enough of this recycled biodiesel for 0.07% (or 1 in 1,400) of us to use to run our vehicles. Can you imagine if a handful or other drivers in your town start burning the recycled oil? Your neighbor would be waiting in line and the same 20 gallon bucket would cost $50.
One little fact that everybody overlooks...Our military in it's role to save the world is a major consumer of oil products and refinery capacity. The deeper we get into the middle east the more "oil" consumed... the by-products of war are higher prices, taxes and inflation...
Gary
Gary
Originally Posted by arado
One little fact that everybody overlooks...Our military in it's role to save the world is a major consumer of oil products and refinery capacity. The deeper we get into the middle east the more "oil" consumed... the by-products of war are higher prices, taxes and inflation...
Gary
Gary
THANKS! Rob M and Danaurora for your intelligent contributions to the discussion and your support.
I enjoy a good argument even if we must simply agree to disagree. But, I have learned when people (like some that posted to this thread) spout conspiracy theories, blanket hatred of a group of people or philosophy, or make wild conclusions from suspect information, it’s time to just smile and tell them to have a great day. All you can hope is that they are not smart enough or too much of an anarchist to vote. The question that will keep you up at night is “they own a Crossfire?”
I enjoy a good argument even if we must simply agree to disagree. But, I have learned when people (like some that posted to this thread) spout conspiracy theories, blanket hatred of a group of people or philosophy, or make wild conclusions from suspect information, it’s time to just smile and tell them to have a great day. All you can hope is that they are not smart enough or too much of an anarchist to vote. The question that will keep you up at night is “they own a Crossfire?”
Conspiracy advocates serve a purpose. Was Oswald alone? Was Pearl Harbor sacrificed? Was Iraq about oil? Only a fool accepts the party line...I question everything, including those looking through rose colored glasses. I drive a Crossfire and questioned it too.
Gary
Gary
Originally Posted by Rob M
True. Though many would agree it is in our best interests to maintain a strong military, during wartime fuel costs go up around 30%. The DoD is the largest departmental consumer of oil in the world. Not to mention Iraq oil production is lower than before the war. You hit on something that many of those upset with high gas prices are oblivious to - inflation. The FRB and Government have used it as a "stealth" tax to increase prices on most of the things we consume by about 50% in the last 7 years.
Originally Posted by sterling013
THANKS! Rob M and Danaurora for your intelligent contributions to the discussion and your support.
I enjoy a good argument even if we must simply agree to disagree. But, I have learned when people (like some that posted to this thread) spout conspiracy theories, blanket hatred of a group of people or philosophy, or make wild conclusions from suspect information, it’s time to just smile and tell them to have a great day. All you can hope is that they are not smart enough or too much of an anarchist to vote. The question that will keep you up at night is “they own a Crossfire?”
I enjoy a good argument even if we must simply agree to disagree. But, I have learned when people (like some that posted to this thread) spout conspiracy theories, blanket hatred of a group of people or philosophy, or make wild conclusions from suspect information, it’s time to just smile and tell them to have a great day. All you can hope is that they are not smart enough or too much of an anarchist to vote. The question that will keep you up at night is “they own a Crossfire?”
Originally Posted by Rob M
Unfortunately, I'm forced to provide a little Econ 101:
OK, so the guy down the street has a diesel engine car that smells like french fries when he drives. That is great for him (really, it is). But when you do a little investigation (so easy a brainwashed caveman can do it), you will see that in the U.S. there are only around 100 million gallons of used cooking oil "produced" each year. Sounds promising, except that we use 140 BILLION gallons of gasoline each year! So there is enough of this recycled biodiesel for 0.07% (or 1 in 1,400) of us to use to run our vehicles. Can you imagine if a handful or other drivers in your town start burning the recycled oil? Your neighbor would be waiting in line and the same 20 gallon bucket would cost $50.
OK, so the guy down the street has a diesel engine car that smells like french fries when he drives. That is great for him (really, it is). But when you do a little investigation (so easy a brainwashed caveman can do it), you will see that in the U.S. there are only around 100 million gallons of used cooking oil "produced" each year. Sounds promising, except that we use 140 BILLION gallons of gasoline each year! So there is enough of this recycled biodiesel for 0.07% (or 1 in 1,400) of us to use to run our vehicles. Can you imagine if a handful or other drivers in your town start burning the recycled oil? Your neighbor would be waiting in line and the same 20 gallon bucket would cost $50.
Last edited by seayyard; May 29, 2007 at 08:51 PM.
Originally Posted by Mediacritic
The House, eager to do something about record high gasoline prices in advance of the Memorial Day weekend, voted narrowly Wednesday to approve stiff penalties for those found guilty of gasoline price gouging.
(Bush will likely veto to help protect oil companies gross profiteering and price gouging.) 5/24
- Buzzflash
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18825910/
(Bush will likely veto to help protect oil companies gross profiteering and price gouging.) 5/24
- Buzzflash
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18825910/
Whenever government sticks its nose into the market, the market gets distorted and results are predictable. But hey, the Democrats are gonna save us.

God help us!
Originally Posted by seayyard
Originally Posted by sterling013
Well from the responses from another thread, I am starting this thread to answer many of the issues brought up about evil big oil so it won’t be buried in the other thread. Below is a refresher course in world oil 101.
The jump in U.S. gasoline prices this year has so far drained consumers of an extra $20 billion, or about $146 for each passenger car in the country per the GAO. The national price for regular unleaded gasoline hit a record $3.22 a gallon this week, and is up $1.05 since the beginning of February, according to the Energy Department. The added expense is taking money away from consumers to spend on other goods and services, spending billions more on gasoline constrains consumers' budgets, leaving less money available for other purchases. Why don't people think about this with tax cuts? If you want to cut prices on gasoline, cut the taxes, the state, the city, the feds, etc. It adds up to 60 cents a gallon.
Many of you (and politicians) want to take the profits of big oil, But if you're big oil, why would you even consider investing billions of dollars in a country that is trying to effectively ban your product?
Someone noted that grocery stores profit margin is 2%, because people have to eat, and questioned why doesn't big oil look at it that way. Grocery stores are distributors, not manufacturers. Your local gas station is the distributor and is making only about 2% profit. Big oil is the manufacturer, just like Pepsi or Frito-Lay, and they make much more than 2% just like big oil does. Do you want to take their profit too? Let’s just take everyone’s profits? Remember we are governed by the free enterprise system. Profits are good! Live it, love it, or leave it.
I know that the gas price is one of these things that when it comes up, it goes up, people think that there's some suspicious or conspiratorial reason behind it, they just cannot accept the fact that the free market works in gasoline. So let me ask some questions. How many oil companies are there that sell gasoline in the US? I don't even know the answer, but it doesn't matter because there's more than one. If you don't think they are competing with each other, then you don't know the world. ExxonMobil, BP, Shell, and whoever the others are, they compete with one another. I realize that some of you might think they all get together and set the price, but even a US Senate study after hurricane Katrina proved there is no collusion.
How many companies are there selling gasoline in this country that are not American? Citgo, BP. Do you think that ExxonMobil and BP and the rest are getting together to set prices in the US? Remember, these people are the world market. Now, where does this oil come from? Gasoline is oil first and there are a bunch of different places it comes from all over the world. Actually, the number one country we get oil from is Canada. Not Saudi Arabia, Venezuela or Russia. The oil companies do not own this oil as it is, they have to purchase it.
So tell me how it is that oil, which starts the whole price timeline, coming from so many different places in the world, ends up as refined gasoline with no free market determining the price in this country. I want to know how this is possible. I want to know how it is that BP, ExxonMobil, Citgo, etc. are getting together with the Russians and with the Saudis and coordinating this. Then the guys playing the futures market in oil on the commodities market, I want you to tell me how they are involved in this so that the price is set by one person from the time it comes out of the ground 'til it gets to your car as gasoline. All these companies compete with one another at the retail level, they are competing with each other to find oil all over the world. We have to buy oil from all these different countries, and we have to refine it here. All of these aspects have market circumstances that rein in the desire for people to charge more than what they can get for it. Then you've got the stockholders of these publicly traded oil companies who are demanding profits as big as they can be. They're publicly traded companies and if the managers of these companies don't get as big a profit as they could or if they get too little a profit, there's going to be hell to pay from the shareholders.
Have you heard of a country called China? More and more people have access to automobiles that use gasoline, and they are putting a lot of pressure on the worldwide supply of gasoline. The US politicians are standing in the way of this country finding any more oil on our property; be it Alaska; be it off one of the coasts, they won't let it happen, while at the same time they're talking about energy independence.
Big oil earns only 30% of its income from operations in the United States. I want to know how it is that big oil and all these companies competing with one another somehow control the product around the world from the moment it comes out of the ground. I want to know how they own Saudi Arabia, Russia, Iran, and Venezuela. There's oil coming out of the ground everywhere but here. With all the pressure on the supply from the rising Chinese economy and the Indian economy, can you tell me how big oil controls every drop from the time it comes out of the ground until tends up as gasoline in your tank. But you can't tell me because it's not possible.
Do you like flipping on the light switch or having air conditioning at home? Where do you think that comes from? They won't let us do nuke power, so it's coal and it's oil. I haven't even scratched the surface of the oil industry and the costs in finding it, drilling it, bringing it up, transporting it as crude across the oceans and pipelines and so forth.
I literally am amazed that somehow the truth and the facts of the oil business, economics of the oil business, escape people when the economics of most other things are never questioned. I guess that comes from a vocal minority of activists and the Media routinely telling people they're being gouged. Yet nobody ever complains when they're talking about raising those taxes. This market is so complex, it's like the climate, although it's not nearly as complex as the climate, it is profoundly complex, and to try to control it and corner it is impossible.
Saudi Arabia at 8.3 million barrels a day is the largest producer in the world. ExxonMobil at 2.54 million barrels a day is the fifth largest. ExxonMobil's market share of the world oil market is 3%. There is no way big oil is engaging in price fixing and controlling every bit of the oil from the ground to your tank as gasoline with only 3% of the world oil market.
If you are really all that excited by the gas prices, maybe it’s time for you to trade in your Crossfire for a Toyota Prius, and you can join those smug others who like to smell their own farts (see South Park). I’m filling my Crossfire up and driving down the road just for the fun of it!
The jump in U.S. gasoline prices this year has so far drained consumers of an extra $20 billion, or about $146 for each passenger car in the country per the GAO. The national price for regular unleaded gasoline hit a record $3.22 a gallon this week, and is up $1.05 since the beginning of February, according to the Energy Department. The added expense is taking money away from consumers to spend on other goods and services, spending billions more on gasoline constrains consumers' budgets, leaving less money available for other purchases. Why don't people think about this with tax cuts? If you want to cut prices on gasoline, cut the taxes, the state, the city, the feds, etc. It adds up to 60 cents a gallon.
Many of you (and politicians) want to take the profits of big oil, But if you're big oil, why would you even consider investing billions of dollars in a country that is trying to effectively ban your product?
Someone noted that grocery stores profit margin is 2%, because people have to eat, and questioned why doesn't big oil look at it that way. Grocery stores are distributors, not manufacturers. Your local gas station is the distributor and is making only about 2% profit. Big oil is the manufacturer, just like Pepsi or Frito-Lay, and they make much more than 2% just like big oil does. Do you want to take their profit too? Let’s just take everyone’s profits? Remember we are governed by the free enterprise system. Profits are good! Live it, love it, or leave it.
I know that the gas price is one of these things that when it comes up, it goes up, people think that there's some suspicious or conspiratorial reason behind it, they just cannot accept the fact that the free market works in gasoline. So let me ask some questions. How many oil companies are there that sell gasoline in the US? I don't even know the answer, but it doesn't matter because there's more than one. If you don't think they are competing with each other, then you don't know the world. ExxonMobil, BP, Shell, and whoever the others are, they compete with one another. I realize that some of you might think they all get together and set the price, but even a US Senate study after hurricane Katrina proved there is no collusion.
How many companies are there selling gasoline in this country that are not American? Citgo, BP. Do you think that ExxonMobil and BP and the rest are getting together to set prices in the US? Remember, these people are the world market. Now, where does this oil come from? Gasoline is oil first and there are a bunch of different places it comes from all over the world. Actually, the number one country we get oil from is Canada. Not Saudi Arabia, Venezuela or Russia. The oil companies do not own this oil as it is, they have to purchase it.
So tell me how it is that oil, which starts the whole price timeline, coming from so many different places in the world, ends up as refined gasoline with no free market determining the price in this country. I want to know how this is possible. I want to know how it is that BP, ExxonMobil, Citgo, etc. are getting together with the Russians and with the Saudis and coordinating this. Then the guys playing the futures market in oil on the commodities market, I want you to tell me how they are involved in this so that the price is set by one person from the time it comes out of the ground 'til it gets to your car as gasoline. All these companies compete with one another at the retail level, they are competing with each other to find oil all over the world. We have to buy oil from all these different countries, and we have to refine it here. All of these aspects have market circumstances that rein in the desire for people to charge more than what they can get for it. Then you've got the stockholders of these publicly traded oil companies who are demanding profits as big as they can be. They're publicly traded companies and if the managers of these companies don't get as big a profit as they could or if they get too little a profit, there's going to be hell to pay from the shareholders.
Have you heard of a country called China? More and more people have access to automobiles that use gasoline, and they are putting a lot of pressure on the worldwide supply of gasoline. The US politicians are standing in the way of this country finding any more oil on our property; be it Alaska; be it off one of the coasts, they won't let it happen, while at the same time they're talking about energy independence.
Big oil earns only 30% of its income from operations in the United States. I want to know how it is that big oil and all these companies competing with one another somehow control the product around the world from the moment it comes out of the ground. I want to know how they own Saudi Arabia, Russia, Iran, and Venezuela. There's oil coming out of the ground everywhere but here. With all the pressure on the supply from the rising Chinese economy and the Indian economy, can you tell me how big oil controls every drop from the time it comes out of the ground until tends up as gasoline in your tank. But you can't tell me because it's not possible.
Do you like flipping on the light switch or having air conditioning at home? Where do you think that comes from? They won't let us do nuke power, so it's coal and it's oil. I haven't even scratched the surface of the oil industry and the costs in finding it, drilling it, bringing it up, transporting it as crude across the oceans and pipelines and so forth.
I literally am amazed that somehow the truth and the facts of the oil business, economics of the oil business, escape people when the economics of most other things are never questioned. I guess that comes from a vocal minority of activists and the Media routinely telling people they're being gouged. Yet nobody ever complains when they're talking about raising those taxes. This market is so complex, it's like the climate, although it's not nearly as complex as the climate, it is profoundly complex, and to try to control it and corner it is impossible.
Saudi Arabia at 8.3 million barrels a day is the largest producer in the world. ExxonMobil at 2.54 million barrels a day is the fifth largest. ExxonMobil's market share of the world oil market is 3%. There is no way big oil is engaging in price fixing and controlling every bit of the oil from the ground to your tank as gasoline with only 3% of the world oil market.
If you are really all that excited by the gas prices, maybe it’s time for you to trade in your Crossfire for a Toyota Prius, and you can join those smug others who like to smell their own farts (see South Park). I’m filling my Crossfire up and driving down the road just for the fun of it!
Last edited by nascarhq; May 31, 2007 at 02:58 AM.
Originally Posted by nascarhq
gas in iran is 4 cents a gallon, if you are so naive that you think oil is a free market you probably believe just about anything.
try 38 cents a gallon. but it's not $0.38 because they can produce gasoline at that price. keep in mind that iran buys nearly half of its gasoline on the open market because they too have limited refinery capacity. countries like saudi arabia, iran, and venezuela heavily subsidize the cost of fuel as a "favor" to their people. of course, even at $0.38 the typical iranian making around $2k per year cannot afford to own a car much less pay to keep it fueled so the poorest people don't stand to benefit at all. and guess what's coming next for the iranian consumer? gas rationing. you can only buy so much at the cheap price. need more then you'll pay much more if you're even allowed to exceed your ration. does anyone here remember what happened when then president nixon (r) implemented price controls on gasoline? i was just a small child but i remember waiting in line with mom to buy gas.
I would say F oil and drill deuterium in the Marianas and Philippines. Much environmentally friendly, lots of deposit which replenishes every 24 hours...but of course , it will ruin global economy!
Who will feed the Arabs when that happens?
There's only one country that has the world's largest deposit of deuterium (with an 1,800 mile stretched in the Pacific). The Muslims and Al Qaeda are wanting to claim that part of the country now, thanks to the arms support from Libya, Iran and Saudi Arabia.
Who will feed the Arabs when that happens?
There's only one country that has the world's largest deposit of deuterium (with an 1,800 mile stretched in the Pacific). The Muslims and Al Qaeda are wanting to claim that part of the country now, thanks to the arms support from Libya, Iran and Saudi Arabia.
[quote=sterling013]
Many of you (and politicians) want to take the profits of big oil, But if you're big oil, why would you even consider investing billions of dollars in a country that is trying to effectively ban your product?
Actually, the number one country we get oil from is Canada.
You get your oil from Canada where it is produced, and where it is sold by the litre. It's currently 1.15/ litre or in US gallon equivalent 4.60/gallon.
Shell owns many of the gas stations and sets their own prices. They are both the distributor and retailer. They forced many private owners out.
The price now can vary as much as 15 cents/litre or 60 cents a US gallon within a few miles. Explain that...
Don't you worry about oil companies who invest billions. They are holding the country ransom. You can drive a Prius but if the masses go this way, dont be surprised if the oil companies just charge more and more for less gas> They will enjoy the same profits having sold only a fraction of the gas.
The free market BS is about as phoney as the price of diamonds.
If the North american population was on the ball they'd pick one gas company and boycott them until they dropped the price. It's not like they are doing us a big favor. If they dont sell it to us then who will purchase it?
Many of you (and politicians) want to take the profits of big oil, But if you're big oil, why would you even consider investing billions of dollars in a country that is trying to effectively ban your product?
Actually, the number one country we get oil from is Canada.
You get your oil from Canada where it is produced, and where it is sold by the litre. It's currently 1.15/ litre or in US gallon equivalent 4.60/gallon.
Shell owns many of the gas stations and sets their own prices. They are both the distributor and retailer. They forced many private owners out.
The price now can vary as much as 15 cents/litre or 60 cents a US gallon within a few miles. Explain that...
Don't you worry about oil companies who invest billions. They are holding the country ransom. You can drive a Prius but if the masses go this way, dont be surprised if the oil companies just charge more and more for less gas> They will enjoy the same profits having sold only a fraction of the gas.
The free market BS is about as phoney as the price of diamonds.
If the North american population was on the ball they'd pick one gas company and boycott them until they dropped the price. It's not like they are doing us a big favor. If they dont sell it to us then who will purchase it?
Last edited by jaded1958cars; Feb 26, 2008 at 11:43 PM.
Originally Posted by BrianBrave
Hi Sterling13 – WOW! Are you misinformed?
BASICALLY WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT YOU GOT ALL WRONG DUDE!!!
BASICALLY WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT YOU GOT ALL WRONG DUDE!!!
Last edited by jaded1958cars; Feb 26, 2008 at 11:52 PM.
well aside from the profits that the oil companies make I think that the gas tax should be somewhere around 5-6 dollars a gallon, thus forcing people to choose more economy set vehicles.
I have worked in Yemen gas was .12 cents a gallon it has now risen to .18 cents, I worked in Russia, lower Siberia gas was about .50 cents a gallon
I currently work on a Shell project originally budgeted at $11B for a Tar Sands Mine-expansion and an Upgrader to process the oil, it currenlty is over budget $2B and is over a year late
So how will Shell recoup costs raise prices of the end commodity
Cheap oil came from cheap labour and low transsportation costs, oil originally came out of the desert at .25 cents a barrel, until the Saudi's got wise and wanted their cut of the profits
Money makes the world go round that is why the first money (coins) were made round
I currently work on a Shell project originally budgeted at $11B for a Tar Sands Mine-expansion and an Upgrader to process the oil, it currenlty is over budget $2B and is over a year late
So how will Shell recoup costs raise prices of the end commodity
Cheap oil came from cheap labour and low transsportation costs, oil originally came out of the desert at .25 cents a barrel, until the Saudi's got wise and wanted their cut of the profits
Money makes the world go round that is why the first money (coins) were made round
Here a few questions for you all to ask and do some research on.
When Iraq torched the oil fields in Kuwait in GWI (1991) what happened to the price of oil and gasoline? Remember all the fires?
A barrel of oil rose from $18.87 (1990) to $24.06 (1991) then dropped back down to 15.41 (1992) and rose then to $15.98 (1993).
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/wtotusaw.htm
Now oil is $102 a barrel? Why, well supply and demand, the USA hasn't build any oil refineries in like 20 years - yet we always have gas at the pump, the oil companies never seem to run out of gasoline to sell.
So let's look at US oil production:
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mcrfpus1m.htm
If you look at these numbers you will see US oil production as dropped big time from 1990 (right around GW1) of 234 Million barrels of oil per month to 150 Million barrels of oil a month in Nov 2007 - that's a 36% decline in production.
Oil fields in America are not running dry. The oil companies a shutting them down.
Why, to manipulate supply of oil and force themselves to import oil from the international spot market (of which they own a huge majority of foreign oil fields) so they make a huge profit from that market.; then they mix that high priced imported oil with the cheap domestic oil they produce at $5 a barrel and charge you the consumer the international spot price.
BOOM - Instant Billions in profits every quarter (3 mos)
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=XOM
It's called the fleecing on America and we all just stand back say - Ah! Da!
When Iraq torched the oil fields in Kuwait in GWI (1991) what happened to the price of oil and gasoline? Remember all the fires?
A barrel of oil rose from $18.87 (1990) to $24.06 (1991) then dropped back down to 15.41 (1992) and rose then to $15.98 (1993).
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/wtotusaw.htm
Now oil is $102 a barrel? Why, well supply and demand, the USA hasn't build any oil refineries in like 20 years - yet we always have gas at the pump, the oil companies never seem to run out of gasoline to sell.
So let's look at US oil production:
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mcrfpus1m.htm
If you look at these numbers you will see US oil production as dropped big time from 1990 (right around GW1) of 234 Million barrels of oil per month to 150 Million barrels of oil a month in Nov 2007 - that's a 36% decline in production.
Oil fields in America are not running dry. The oil companies a shutting them down.
Why, to manipulate supply of oil and force themselves to import oil from the international spot market (of which they own a huge majority of foreign oil fields) so they make a huge profit from that market.; then they mix that high priced imported oil with the cheap domestic oil they produce at $5 a barrel and charge you the consumer the international spot price.
BOOM - Instant Billions in profits every quarter (3 mos)
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=XOM
It's called the fleecing on America and we all just stand back say - Ah! Da!
Hang on - there will be a day in the near future when you'll reminisce about the good old days when gas was $3.50/gal. A major factor (if not the main factor) globally is the fact emerging countries are requiring more and more oil. Some countries like China are willing to pay extravagant prices to keep their economies going. Basically, it will be a bidding war. As the Americans lose this battle, prices in the US will skyrocket and industry will grind to a halt. When all our vehicles stop someone will suggest a national transportation or a national electrical power system but it will be to late then. We will pay for our failure to look to the future.
You can not have economies such as India and China growing at exponential rates and not have a comprehensive policy to deal with such powers. The Iraq war is just a drop in the bucket.
Bend over and smile wide
You can not have economies such as India and China growing at exponential rates and not have a comprehensive policy to deal with such powers. The Iraq war is just a drop in the bucket.
Bend over and smile wide



