I know this topic has probably been discussed in the past, but I'm curious what experience anyone has had with the 3M product. It appears Andrew has had good luck with it. However, I'd appreciate some additional help before I make a reasonable investment in it in both time & $.

Does it really work?

Any experience with "do it yourself" installation?

Is it visible once applied?

Does it last?

Who should I buy it from? I live in Ohio.

Any feedback on cost of professional installation would also be helpful.

Thanks for your responses!

Judy

[/b]

 

I'm interested too Judy...cuz after seeing what andrew did and how transparent it looks, and seeing a 350Z at the dealership where I bought, I've done a bunch of research into the various products and they are 1) not inexpensive and (from what I can find on the web) 2) not easy to install by the inexperienced. I'm tending towards having it professionally installed, cuz I don't want to spend a bunch on the film onto to screw up installing it myself and have peeling and bubbles and such.

 

Here's a website for the invisible bra

www.xpel.com

 

i live in ohio and am an installer. the film will last the life of the car...comes with a 5 year warranty. cost of installation...b/t $250 and $400 depending upon coverage area less product cost.. its worth every dollar in gold. the film is nearly invisible to the eye. a professional install is highly recommended.

Stongard Installation Instructions
Items needed:

1. New large plastic spray bottle
2. Rubbing alcohol
3. Glass cleaner
4. Water
5. Johnson & Johnson Baby Shampoo (allows you to pull up and re-apply SG for flaws or bubbles during install)
6. Scissors
7. Heat gun / blow dryer
8. X-acto knife
9. Minimum of 2 people to install (required for large pieces)
10. Lots of patience!

Step-by-Step Instructions:

1. Use factory touch-up paint on any stone chips, apply with a toothpick. Allow paint to dry thoroughly.
2. Apply glass cleaner to paint surface, allow glass cleaner to soak. Re-spray and remove with a lint free towel. This removes any dead bugs on the paint surface.
3. Apply straight rubbing alcohol on a towel, apply to paint surface where Stongard (SG) will be applied. This removes any remaining wax.
4. Mix solution: water, rubbing alcohol, and a cap full of Johnson & Johnson's Baby Shampoo. Shake well.
5. Use scissors to cut out all pieces of SG from backing paper.
6. Start with smallest pieces first.
7. Saturate first area where SG will be applied on the car.
8. Spray finger tips with solution to avoid leaving print on the film.
9. Remove SG from paper and saturate adhesive side of film with solution, re-spray car surface. The wetter the better.
10. Line up SG, and saturate front of film.
11. Squeegee from the inside/out, pushing bubbles outward to the edge of the film.
12. Pull up if necessary to remove flaws, re-soak and re-squeegee.
13. Repeat for each piece.
14. Use heat gun/blow dryer for adhering loose edges. Squeegee. Be careful not to wrinkle film by using too much heat.
15. Apply largest pieces last.
16. Keep all surfaces wet/saturated at all times, until set in place.

Flaws will be present after installation, don't be alarmed. Park the car in the direct sunlight to aid with flaw removal. Don't be judgmental until at least a week after installation. Almost all flaws with evaporate with time.

Some trimming may be required on the edges. Use an X-acto knife to "slightly" to score SG, lift edge and remove excess SG. Don't push too hard when trimming, you may damage, scratch or etch the vehicles paint. this is an art.

 

Sweet! andrew do you know any installers in Michigan? my Xfire and my mothers PT would like to have it installed!

 

take a look on this website: invinca-shield.com for an installer in your area...always ask to see some of their work prior to scheduling your car.

 

I've had it since I got the car in November. You can't see it on any of my images. You can however see it up close. So far no paint damage where it was installed.

I'll be having it installed on every vehicle I own forward.

I've got it on the following:

Front Bumper
Hood
Head Lights
Fog Lights
Behind each wheel
On each mirror housing

 

there will never be any paint fade under the product. i removed a kit after 5 years and the paint beneath the film was as good as new.

 

I was talking about rock chips, not paint fade.

Was just saying it was doing its job well!

 

my bad!

 

Thanks to Andrew & everybody else who responded.

I've checked with 3M & Invinca-shield for local Ohio installers. One has changed phone numbers & "compensates" the person who has that original number for referring calls. However, she won't give me the new phone #. She will reportedly take my number & forward it. I hung up.

The other installer responded that he would have to call me back with a price (in ten minutes). He has yet to call back 36 hrs. later.

I think I will have to buy the product & do this myself. It still does look like a valuable product, if done right. Unfortunately, it looks like 3M & distributors will set up anybody as an installer. Has the potential of creating a bad name for the product. Could be a good market for someone.

 

Check the dealership where you bought your Crossfire. Or any local car dealership for that matter. "Invisible Bra's" are getting very popular, most dealerships offer an aftermarket service, often they have model's on their showroom floor that have had them installed as "additional dealer markup" items. Get them to refer you to who they use.

Personally, I'd like to do this myself, setup a little side business and get good at installing the stuff (right tools, practice, etc.) doing it evenings and weekends by referral from dealerships. If I could make a couple hundred bucks a week doing 1 or 2 cars, it could make my CF payment :!: :lol: :!: and then some.

 

Not a bad idea! I may pursue this with my 21 yr old son who is looking for a way to make some extra money while working on his degree.

Thanks again. The Forum & members are Great!

 

Tell your son Wireless Networking... make about $200 - $350 an hour... for an install... most people in the world havent the slightest clue about computers still... and its extremely popular and many people still need them installed... thats what I do :lol: works great!

 

Yeah... I was thinking of that myself :idea: ... sheesh, I fire up my laptop and hit 4 totally unsecured WAP's from my back yard! Not than any of them can see mine (MAC filtering is your best wireless friend). If only they knew what >I< now know about them (teehee)... one's even a local cop that has an (how do I say it... :?: ) interesting photo collection. ops:

I do highly secure wireless networks for the Navy, so I think I can setup a home WLAN, just a matter of figuring out a cheap way to advertise my abilities without raising too much IRS scrutiny. :wink: :shock: :wink:

 

Yah I get ya on security Dave... as you can see im a security freak running a OpenBSD 3.3 server !

but I found word of mouth... worked GREAT... and I put some flyers up and local stores.. got some from that... then joined a company that actually advertises... it "was" owned by my close friend... but he moved away and now im back to doing it if someone asks...

 

judy...i would strongly recommend against installing this product yourself. 99% of the diy's end up with very disappointing results and end up removing and wasting the expensive film. i live in columbus, ohio and have installed over 100 3M kits. i'm not sure where you live in ohio but if this too far to drive...i would ask your local highline dealers for an installer recommendation in the area. a full kit will require 3-5 hours to install correctly.

 

Hi Guys

I produced a PPF 101 guide for the UK 350Z forum so people could make some informed choices about this stuff.

Would the Mods like me to do something similar for here. Not a selling tool just features benefits etc treatments the usual sort of thing.

PS we have 23 UK dealers if you are in the UK and looking for this stuff.

Best Wishes


Tom Wakeford

 

I don't have an issue with it.

 

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HI Guys First thanks to the Mods for letting me post this

Given the various discussions on the board about Paint protection film in general, I thought you might find a few pointers about the process and it's benefits and limitations helpful when making your decisions about whether to do this or not on your motor.

This is not about which manufacturer to use (although we would be happy to have you)
its more about the questions you need to ask and issues you need to be aware of.

First: Film, straight off there are about a dozen films available worldwide. They break down into two categories those with a topcoat and those without. There are currently only two manufacturers that actively have a topcoat 3M and Bekaert (clearshield) a third is developing one (avery) The 3M film is the one that has been in existence the longest (although this is occasionally disputed). The film that protects your car is a layer of flexible material with lots of micro pores in it this allows the film to flex and absorb the kinetic energy of the impact. The downside to this is that these pores will absorb and retain road grime, tar/rubber residue etc. This is a major problem in the UK as the film will go dark grey (or even black) after about 3 months. The topcoat prevents this and means there is no special maintenance needed. We recommend topcoated films which is why we use 3M product (as do Armourfend).


Second: Your paint finish, none of the films should harm the
manufacturers paint in anyway (emphasis on manufacturer) and are usually warranted as such HOWEVER aftermarket resprays can be affected by the chemical used to fit the product (isopropyl alcohol). Or can cause a poor respray to lift when the film is removed. A good and correctly trained installer, should be able to advise you on the steps needed to ensure this does not happen. Our training at our facility are resprays and we have trainees pulling film off them dozens of times every weekend and it takes many months before any lifting occurs (equivalent to about 4000 years of life some nut in the office calculated). This is why most warranties (including ours) exclude aftermarket paints as we have no control over the quality of the job.


Chemical interaction shows itself as a rippling or flow marks in the paint this only happens with a particular type of product (we tested for months to find which ones) and it is mainly the clearcoat used most typically by some large smart repair companies that cause this. Large body shops normally use a different process that is unaffected by fitting the film.


Third Fitting Issues: There are several things that can go wrong in fitting, due to cold, wax on the car, poorly trained fitters etc. So i will list these and their causes for you.

Fingers: these are little rises at the edges of the film where the film has lost contact with the car the causes can be failure to de-wax the car correctly, fitting after a coating product, incorrect chemical mix, temperature, even just sloppy fitting, this is an unacceptable defect and you should always reject the job.

Lifting: This is where an edge of the film begins to peel back a few months after fitting, this can be caused either by poor fitting, wax on the car when installing, failure to finish the job off or washing the car within the first week. If you have washed the car too soon and this has caused it is easy to identify. Otherwise the job should be rejected and the film replaced. Lifting can be caused by vandalism during the first couple of weeks, however this leaves fingerprints under the film so again is easy to address (this is very rare and we have only had one case in the last year).


Marks on the film: There are several causes for this first straight tramlines are a film defect and are easily spotted, small scratches on the surface (usually slightly curved) tend to be squeegee marks due to dirt (or hard water particles) a small number of these would not be cause for a rejection of the job, however lots of them will affect the clarity of the film and may be cause for rejection these are avoided by keeping the squeegee wet. These can usually be removed by gentle use of Meguiars Scratch X. Scarring, these are caused by the squeegee, there will sometimes be one or two of these on jobs they will only be visible from a couple of inches and should not be cause for rejection however if there are lots of them or they are visible from a couple of feet away, again I would reject the job.

Water Bubbles: The film process is like window tinting and moisture under the film can take up to a month (depending on humidity). This will show itself as water bubbles or on black cars as a rash of white spots these will disappear if a water bubble is still there after a month or so the installer should replace the film.

Stretch marks: These show up as vertical rows of miniscule white dots or as feather edges they can appear up to two weeks later, this is due to over stretching the film or working at very low temperatures or on a cold car this is typically seen when some one insists on a home fitting in the winter. Or due to poor install either way the job should be rejected as they will not go away.

Yellowing: Modern films should not yellow and should be warranted against this, however on a white car the film can look slightly creamy this is due to the adhesive (but as almost no-one has a white car now its almost a non-issue).


Cutting on the car this tends to be done either due to a custom design or poor fitting due to excessive stretching under no circumstances should you accept this and if you discover it has been done you should sue the installer for damages as it will require a respray.


Disassembling the vehicle, some installers who work on bulk roll by hand, remove headlights and indicators and such, the ONLY parts that you should allow to be removed are tow hook doors, washer jet doors and number plates, this is due to the fact that otherwise an aperture has to be designed around them and you may not like the result. It is better where possible (can't always be done) to keep the film as visually continuous as possible. Removal of lighting arrays can (and probably will) invalidate your warranty.


Fitting at home: Some installers will fit at home (we prefer customers to go to installer premises) there is nothing inherently wrong with this, however you must accept the fact that there WILL be occasional minor defects that will occur when fitting in your garage. Most notably the occasional small speck of dust under the film, remember your garage is not a sterile environment so this is impossible to completely eradicate in a domestic situation. The trade off of course is the convenience factor and these specks would only be visible within 3-6 inches of the car.

I would strongly suggest whoever you use, you check out the following:

1) See their training certificate from a company you trust.

2) Make sure they have public liability insurance and make sure the manufacturer has product liability insurance (always helps to know where to direct your wrath if something goes badly wrong). Check out whether you get a warranty, if so what kind.

Kit Designs: This is important, owing to the difficulty to install and what defects may occur and how much you may have to pay these, fall down into three main types: multi piece (usually aimed at the consumer/diy market) these break large areas up into many small pieces meaning the average person could attempt fitting. partial break designs, these are usually bumpers that are split in half or into three (maximum) pieces this is to make it easier for the installer to fit and will result in fewer minor surface defects they are a breeze to install but do result in more lines on the car. One piece designs these result in fewer lines and a much more aesthetically pleasing appearance they are however slightly more expensive to buy as the design process for these is much more complex and the installation is much more difficult to do these should ONLY be done by a professional and you should always ensure they have been trained before letting anyone start one of these on your car.

Carbon Fiber: There are two types of Carbon Fiber around; first and second generation.

First Generation: This results in water being trapped between the layers during manufacture consequently it gasses out for months (maybe years) you should not fit film under any circumstances to first Generation carbon, as it may cause the layers to delaminate due to pressure building up between the layers.

Second generation: This is a dry process and 3M's view is that it should be fine. We have successfully fitted film to the Carrera GT which is largely carbon construction (second Gen), we do apply a caveat: that is, do not seal the reverse side of the carbon and monitor the film, if fresh bubbles begin to appear under the film after a month, remove the film IMMEDIATELY!

I have a carbon fiber bonnet on my weekend toy and as its first Gen we could not fit film and the stone chips have caused cracking in the lacquer A real pain when you are in my business.



Phew! Hope this helps you when deciding on Paint Protection film it really is the most cost effective purchase you will ever make for your car and whoever you use I hope you get what you expect, I am a great believer in an informed consumer market so armed with this information you should be able to ensure you get a great job done for your money.


Best Wishes


Tom Wakeford