Both of those logos were for the Karmann Ghia (obviously) but the black one w/out the red Ghia shield was used on the Porsche 356. I got those (they're readily available on ebay) but they can't be easily mounted on your car w/out drilling holes because of some pins on the back. They're a beautiful enamel badge but any attempt to cut off the pins on the back generally result in ruining the badge. The enamel cracks very easily.