Hi. I honestly don't know the difference between Rack & Pinion and Recirculating Ball steering. Although, after reading reviews of the Crossfire, I hear them talking about the 'dated recirculating ball steering system'. How is this dated? How is it different from rack and pinion? Is it any better? Any worse? Thanks.

 

Here is a good explanation of how it works.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/steering3.htm

 

I believe the difference is cost. The rack and pinion is cheaper to produce. They then try to tell you it feels differently and rack/pinion is better. I have driven cars since the fifties with r&p...The Crossfire feels fine to me...

Gary

 

Despite all the poo-poo'ing about the inadequacy of RB steering that I've read from the "expert" reviewers, I cannot tell the difference between this car's steering from any other car I've owned with R&P steering. The Crossfire is a nimble and agile car regardless of what any non-owner says.

 

Thanks so much for clearing it up.

 

In my opinion, the Recirc Ball steering lacks feel. When you are mid turn and hit a bump, it feels very "wooden". Rack & Pinion steering is known for its superior feedback among other things including progressive weighting and accuracy.

 

That's probably true, but as a mere mortal, I couldn't tell the difference. The car is capable of handling better than I can drive it. When I get to the point where the RB steering is limiting my ability to drive then I guess it will be time for an upgrade.

 

These car reviewers are such a bunch of hacks. One of 'em says something negative about a car and everyone of the rest of them parrot the same complaint, valid or not. Rack and pinion systems are OK but vary widely in accuracy and feel. A Mercedes-Benz steering box is going to be a tight accurate product regardless of design. Here in Cincinnati we have really poor road surface quality since tons of road salt is used every Winter. Pot holes, ragged coarse surfaces, patches and seams are everywhere. Rack and pinion designs are great on a smooth racetrack. On a bad roads they "kick-back" and make you have to "fight" the wheel to keep the car on line. I like the Crossfire's steering just fine. It just goes where I point it and doesn't react to every road imperfection it encounters. If that's a "dated" design fine, I don't care to fight the steering wheel every time I hit a bump.

Slim

 

It seems like automotive "journalist" (and I use that term loosely) always praise R&P steering for its quickness, or being more responsive, and for its light and agile "feel". Since these are all subjective opinions (shared by many) then there must me some truth to them. But as Cincy Slim pointed out, in the real world, and not on a race track, there is alot to be said for the RB's heft.
Personally I feel the only real test for how well a certain steering system works is to take it to a slalom course. Of course weight distribution, suspension, chassis stiffness, tire performance and size all come into play on a slalom course. But I can think of no better (or less opinionated) way to put a cars steering system to the test.
When a Limited Crossfire can go thru a slalom faster than such cars as a NSX, every BMW, Ford GT, Lambo Gallardo, Miata, RX-8, Mini Cooper S, 350Z, Boxter, and match a SLR McLaren, I'd have to say the old "antiquated" system is still holding its own quite well.
R&P may feel better, but RB still gets the job done.

(results taken from Oct. '05 Road & Track magazine "Road Test Summary)

 

On the street, I don't notice that much of a difference. On the autocross course...*big* difference. My RX-8 and my Celica had *much* better steering feel/feedback. Some of that is likely the recirc ball, but I also think the steering is just over boosted, esp at low speed.

 

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well for one recirculating ball gives no feedback.
the whole point of it is it isolates you from the road.
so you don't feel the bumps, which was good for the MB of old, where comfort was above all else
but
the cost to that is you don't get any feedback.
you don't get any sense when the tires are loosing traction or how much grip you have in a corner.

rack and pinion transfers a lot of energy from the bumps but the advantage to that is you feel exactly what the tires are doing.
which is why if you look at almost all the other manufacturers of sports car.s
they all use rack and pinion.
and even MB no longer uses it for the newer models since they are trying to be sporty as well.
i have owned both, and there really is a world of difference.
you might not notice if you are a cruiser.
but if you ever drive fast in corners you notice it immediately.

 

You guys seem to think you can actually drive good enough that a rack vs. recirc ball steering really matters. It's all about how good you can drive, this is a BS thread I'm out.

 

am i speaking to the late Ayrton Senna? or is this Michael Schumacher?
you don't have to use these cars on a track or be an ace car driver to notice it.
i am not a fantastic driver but i noticed a big difference.
it's not about how good you can drive.
its about how much fun you have while driving.

 

I too am inclined to think this is bs. I have driven r/p cars since the fifties. The MGTD r/p was a vast improvement over the MGTC. I have driven at high performance such cars as the Sunbeam Tiger which I still own. I find the Crossfire quite good in it's "feel" of the road. It handles very well. Also when you employ power steering on r/p it reduces the "feel" of the road. Another factor to consider is the ratio of steering, i.e, how much of a turn lock to lock on the steering wheel. r/p usually has a smaller ratio. The Crossfire has power steering and r/b...OK by me.

Gary

 

As with any technology, the results usually depend more upon the specific implementation than the basic technology.

In the case of steering gear, it's my understanding that the geometry of the connection between the rack or pitman arm and the steering knuckle is a make or break element in the vehicle's overall steering performance.

IMHO, our Crossfire's steering is plenty good enough.

- Bill

 

Rack and Pinion vs. Recirc Ball has nothing to do with how good of a driver you are. One is not "faster" than the other around a track. Its a feel thing, a connection to the road. Drive the Crossfire back to back with a 3 series or a miata and the difference TO ME is very apparent. The Crossfire steering is fine, sure. But there is a reason Recir ball technology is no longer used.

 

It's mainly no longer used as much because buyers want R&P (can you say 'Hype') and they tell the manufacturers and dealers this. The manufactures and dealers respond to the customer's wants and desires.

No average driver on the street NEEDS R&P steering... it's like having a spoiler on a pickup truck... it's a bragging tool for people who never actually USE the car in extreme situations. i.e. - My car has X BHP, X ft lbs of Torque, heavy duty sway bars, independent front and rear suspension and R&P steering.

As for the isolation from the road while at the track for me... I'm just fine with that. It let's me concentrate on the apex and exit of the turn I'm in and not focus my attention on some little pebble I just ran over. When I'm more advanced and I'm pushing the car to it's limits at the track... THEN I'll probably NEED that feel.

Until then... I'm happy with the RB steering box.

 

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Like I said, I think some of it may have to do with the xfire steering being overboosted...I'm not trying to say with some sort of factual statistical significance that rack and pinion is better than recirc ball. I can't say that *all* of the difference is due to r-p vs. rb.

However, I have driven them on the same tires (Hoosier A6's...slightly different sizes, but similar relative to the wheel...245/35R18's on the xfire 7.5's and 285/30R18's on the RX-8 8's). Alignments were very similar and the suspension designs are very similar. Steering ratio (16.43:1) and turns lock-to-lock (2.99) are very close to xfire. Wheel is smaller though.

The steering feel and feedback between the 2 is night and day. Putting a bigger bar on the xfire and toeing the front out some has helped some, but it's still no contest. Some of it may be r-p vs. rb, some of it power assist issues...but IMO, no doubt part of it is design...bottom line is the xfire is not good in that area...biggest complaint I've got against the car so far. (and in that case, as I said...really only on the autocross course...I don't notice it so much on the street...if I never autocrossed, I might not ever notice it on the street).