I know I really shouldn't do this...
Back in the 70's the U.S. got hit hard with the oil embargo. Under Carter the economy tanked even worse than it had been before. (The economy was already on the rocks, like it or not.) Carter was incapable of doing anything about it so we elect Reagan. His trickle down theory didn't trickle all that far, as people are greedy. (And I don't mean rich people I mean all of us.) Still the rich had more money to spend on stuff and investors had portfolios full of companies rapidly out-sourcing jobs, but the money was great. Even car companies prospered as they closed U.S. plants slowly. And as the number of union workers shrunk they did even better but there was bound to be a tipping point. But we couldn't see it coming. Clinton brought a "balanced budget." Easy to do with all the foreign capital flowing in and banks issuing more and more questionable loans. For as long as it all held up the average citizen would feel more and more comfortable. They invested in 401 K's and year after year those assets kept growing and growing. All was well. The lower end of the economy didn't see that happening. They saw the manual labor jobs they were qualified for stagnate and worse, even lower in value, as we imported more and more labor for jobs americans "wouldn't" do. As time wore on and the promises of each politician became less and less believable they began to grow bitter and angrier. Even seeing the chronically un-employed do better than them. These were not america-haters, they loved their country. Many of them had parents and grand-parents who'd fought for their country. Slowly their anger turned to the self serving politicians. The rich who promised better times but never delivered. When the conservatives went down the same old road that they said the liberals were on a few of them even voted liberal. The thinking being, "hey, at least they're up-front about it. Maybe they'll shake the conservatives from their sleep and they'll start helping us for a change." Didn't happen.

And now for the answer to all our problems. The answer that will bring america back into a country where hard work and sacrifice will give a man the chance to work himself up to middle class...

I got nothin'.

 

I was mostly with you till you got here. Now, I'm not so sure. We are at that place you speak of where" hard work and sacrifice will give a man the chance"...I know it because I live it, every day.

Let me explain. I am not from wealth. My dad raised five boys in a small 960 Squarefoot tract house in a working class community. I got some college education but was never a Frat boy. I traded time for money in big corporations and small companies until I went out on my own.
I started and failed more companies than I can count. Did a personal bankruptcy and started over at 50 with nothing. In the last 11 years I have made a small profit in only two. In the last 25 years I have made a profit in only 4 years. Failure is a reality. There are no garrantees.

Only, in this country could anyone have the opportunity to keep on trying to succeed. This year, of all years, it looks so far like we may do OK.

For 25 years, it would have been so easy to give up and work for someone else. It would have been so easy to let the government pay my bills. Or someone else could worry about my future or my paycheck cashing. All I would have had to give up is my pride, my conscience and....my freedom.

Only, in this country did I have the right to keep on trying and the environment in which to do so. Those were the only garrantees.

But that is changing now. If we want the security of having everything provided whether we work for it or not, then let us keep going where the current Federal government is steering us.There will be security but no freedom.

My work, my dream, my freedom is under attack. I will soon be told that I don't pay enough, or I have to provide health care, or that the product I produce is not necessary to the good of the country. Or, that I obviously can't run a company and will be asked to fire myself. I ain't going easy!

Hard work and sacrifice. You've got that in you, right?
Pride and accountability to yourself, You've got that, right?
A self interest to make things better for your family. You've got that, right?

THEN YOU TRULY DO HAVE SOMETHING. Don't sell yourself short.

Don't let anyone take these values from you. Don't let them take these values away from anyone else. I don't care if I'm ever rich but I will never force my neighbor to pay my bills. Or raise my kids or subsidize my failing business. Don't you let them do it either.

That is what the current administration is getting ready to do. Ask me how.


roadster with a stick

 

I guess having fired the CEO and given notice to other board members, the President essentially took control of GM today. He also told Fiat to buy Chrysler and what cars he expected them to build.

Since he didn't scold the UAW one can assume their jobs are are safe and taxpayers will now subsidize their salaries and pensions.

Don't you just wonder what kind of cars the government will create?
I guess we are going to see a rebirth of the Yugo and that 1950's thingy the Russians produced for 20 years. A return of the classics we all loved.

Maybe Crossfire prices will go up now.

roadster with a stick

BTW Rush, that there was spin. Blatant, in your face spin. You were wrong, I'm not that good at it.

 

He does not HAVE TO step down (he's not facing arrest). GM could turn down our bailout money, I suppose.

 

Oh come on. No, he's not facing arrest (where the hell did that comment come from) but Obama told him "walk out the door now, or GM will never see another penny". In some parts of the world they call that strong arm tactics, in others it borders on blackmail or at the very least, coercion. This puts us on a pretty slippery slope when the President of the United States of America can do this to the CEO of a major corporation. Obama is, quite literally, taking control of the domestic auto industry and I'll just bet the boys over at the Blue Oval are happier than ever that they managed to avoid having to take any bailout money.

 

Wagoner was not moving fast enough to get the house in order. Now the Hatchet Man is in charge.

 

You are right. They could turn it down. But they didn't. So now, because we have given them some already, they haven't a choice. Obama called the note and now we own GM. Great.

First the government participated in a banking scheme that locked up commercial credit. Not intended perhaps but they are at fault none the less.
So now the auto makers ask the government, who has no trouble sending piles of money to their banking freinds who still won't free up credit, to back up the financing. Government says come back later and beg.

Then the government tells GM to dump Wagner or no money .
GM dumps Wagner and Obama says"I'm still not giving you the money."

Wagner has been at the helm for about 7 years. He has turned the company around with new products and streamlined production. He is a car guy, not a bean counter. Have you seen the new product line from GM?
Exactly what consumers are ready to buy and the new electric vehicle coming on, the Volt.

Unfortunately, consumers aren't buying anything right now so all car companies are suffering. Obama says "Screw GM' and tells Chrysler to sell off to Fiat. The Japanese and the Koreans are backing their guys so when this storm is over, how many jobs will President Obama have sent overseas by arrogant decree?

Meanwhile we, the taxpayers, will own whatever is left in the bag from GM and Chrysler and those unions will want payback for their support of Barry last fall. So how much money will we have to print to pay their salaries while the union guys sit in the "Job Banks"?

Rumor has it the Chineese want garrantees. Wanna bet it's an option on 44,000 Hectares of land and all it contains in Central Kentucky?

 

Here's an interesting article on MSN, http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29962730

The writer makes a good point... "The responsibility of government, however, is not to keep any particular company running. It is to keep the workers of the auto industry employed, and so far there is no plan."

As Franc said above, GM has worked hard to reinvent themselves updating their product line to be more competitive. What exactly has the government done to plan for all the unemployed auto workers if GM and Chrysler close their doors?

 

Franc,
A-Man.

 

What a great forum we have here. I'm constantly and, pleasantly, surprised at the wealth of information and intelligence on this board. Thank you all.

With regard to Wagner, I can't say I know too much about the guy. The reality, however, is that the administration is sensing increasing public displeasure at lending more money to companies. So, whatever they or anyone else might say, the decision to give Wagner the boot was mostly political. The administration had to do it if they were going to offer more of our money to GM or Chrysler.

With regard to letting GM and Chrysler take the bankruptcy route, I think that would be better for the country. It will be painful for hundreds of thousands for many years, perhaps even for an entire generation, but the two companies need to shed some of their financial and other legacies. They need to be reborn.

Reborn? Consider why we all love our Crossfires so much. It's not because it is a Chrysler. If we must attach a name to it, it is because it is a Mercedes under it's Chrysler skin. It drives the way it does because of its Mercedes pedigree. American cars are in need of some rebirths.

Having said that, I'm concerned that my XF will lose its warranty if Chrysler goes bankrupt. In that case, I'll be here more often to get more info about fixing various problems...

 

Here is a big pile of sugar that should make everyone feel better about his medicine.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/firs...-plan-emerges/

In truth, I'll bet he can't even change a tire. If Chrysler andGM fold, the dealers fold. So how do I get the same service?

That is what he said! Spoken from the new owner of GM.

The only Crossfires that will qualify would be ???????????????
I imagine even an '08 sold next summer wouldn't qualify.

Good thing we have the forum.

 

Obama is doing what he thinks the people would want, and I don't think he's wrong. The people spoke on election day and what they said rang loud and clear, they want a socialized US. They want the govt to dictate their lives...as long as it brings them some form of rebate check. Nevermind where the money comes from, the govt has deep pockets.

Or they don't care enough to take the time to have a say by voting. Because their one little vote doesn't count or because one politician is no better than the next, whatever the reason.

Oh well, back to the car industry, as long as big oil isn't making money off the deal alls OK. After all their gas is the reason why the temperature of the Earth has risen and caused floods and why the spotted owl doesn't have a rainforest to live in.
I sure am glad the US govt has decreed that cars have to have better has mileage sooner, we don't want the silly populace to decide what they want through the power of purchase.

Sorry for the rant. Feel free to throw stones.

Dh

 

And, in a related story, the Premier of China stated today that his government would be very interested in purchasing more bonds to back the US treasury on certain conditions. Some lingering trade negotiations must be completed and the "CEO of the country must step down."


roadster with a stick

 

let me ask you guys this... if chrysler does go belly up and disappear and government claims that they'll honor the warranty... who would do the warranty work?

don't really matter to me as i opted to go with a third party warranty where i can take my car to any shop. just curious though, how this would work out assuming there would be no more chrysler dealership to take your car to.

 

Help, I am unsure.

Does this mean I am driving a Fiat made by Karmann for Daimler ?

PP

 

Come on. Give Obama a break. He is new at this running a business thingy.
You can't possibly expect him to understand all the details.

Something else to consider, GM and Chrysler sell products world wide. Are we, the US taxpayer going to pay to fix cars in Europe and Australia and South America?

Damm details.



roadster with a stick

 

It means you are driving and exotic that no one will know how to fix in 20 years because the companies that built it are long gone.

I would advise that you keep friendly with this bunch 'cause we are very much on our own.

roadster with a stick

 

Yes this bothers me. How can Obama be telling private companies they arern't financialy viable while he runs this government without any real concern for spending, its the old bait and switch he points the finger at someone else while he does the same thing or worse!

 

I agree, especially when Rick Wagoner was willing to work for $1.00 a year and the guy thats replacing him is demanding his 1.3 million dollar salary remain intact. And demanding Chrysler be sold to a forign company Fiat in 30 days is B.S. too! GM is announcing a make your payment in event of job loss plan up to 700.00 for 9 months,who is going to pay for that???? We are. SOCIALISM AND FASCISM IS HERE

 

Packard, Studebaker, Tucker, etc. come to mind. They did not go out of business because they were bad cars. Just look how much they are worth now.

In 20 years someone will see a Crossfire driving down the road and say "Wow! Look at that. I have not seen one of those in years."