Ok so this is my first "new" performance car and the first time dealing with the syncro'd tranny. I've been driving stick since I was 14 and never had any issues driving anything. The Crossfire on the other hand is a whole new animal. For some reason I can't seem to get the right timing of the shifts for a solid pull.

Basically my question is, has anyone gone through and figured out where the powerbands for each gear are? Or, what are the tricks of the trade to driving this beauty? Any information whether it be on this site or another that I can probe into is greatly appreciated.

 

The optimal shift points are going to be the the rpm at which horsepower (or torque, you get the same answer) in the current gear, starts to fall below the hp (or tq) in the next higher gear.

If the curves dont cross, the optimal point is then the maximum safe mechanical rpm limit for the engine.

Your hp curves can be obtained from a dyno.

 

Torque and horsepower do not peak at the same RPM. Horse power is related to torque X RPM. The point about shifting so as to maximize HORSEPOWER delivered is correct. An unmodified NA has a peak HP of 215@5700 and peak torque of 229@3000. Given that peak HP occurs just before redline, you will go fastest if you shift at 6000 RPM (or very close to it).

 

The point where peak torque and peak horsepower overlap is the peak of your power band. There's usually about 500 rpm of usable peak power band. This is where your car makes it's best pull. Best to run it on a dyno and figure out where those numbers are. Each car will differ ......

That's just my Dos Centavos

 

N/A or SRT6?

Either way, if you are shifting with your automatic by hand, it will be far slower than letting the computer shift. This delay in shifting will negate any advantage you may have by shifting a few hundred RPM before it automatically shifts at redline anyways.

 

Don't let off the gas between shifts....

 

it doesn't matter.....put it in low, floor it, hang on and see what happens...

don't trust me? Well, I will tell you what happens. It will shift on its own...you may think you are shifting it, but it has a mind of its own...it won't let you over rev the engine, so it shifts....try it....

 

Both methods will give you the same answer, try it and see - either from actual dyno data in each gear or a single dyno pull data with the other gears calcukated mathematically.

 

Here it is graphically. This is from a single dyno pull, with torque and hp in each gear calculated from the one-gear data.

The solid lines represent torque in each gear. The dashed lines are hp in each gear. You get the same answer using either one.

The important thing to take away from this is that for minimum elapsed time, you must maximize hp (and tq) at all times.

 

which doesn't happen with this car....foot to the floor, it will back off to 60% throttle when it shifts...

 

Everyone is giving you info and advice on an auto stick.
I can't tell for sure but aren't you talking about a 6 spd manual?


roadster with a stick

the way is should be!

 

I most definately have the 6-Speed. I would never go auto stick. So, now how many of your comments are useless to what I'm looking to find out?

 

I was thinking you had an SRT6...you can ignore all my comments, and talk to Franc about the stick....lol

 

Of course you are. My kinda driver.
Me I made no comments yet so surely they aren't useless YET!

You are looking for optimum shift points on your Crossie, NO?

Is it Stock tune?
Any Mods at all.

Yes it makes a difference.

One issue I know you are having is 1-2 as the first gear launch is not so great. Standard tune and air intakes puts you at 33 MPH at red line. Torque curve goes soft at 4500 RPM. So drag racing the Crossie is not so good.

Sprint Booster equipped? Don't let anyone kid you. On this car it makes a difference.

Have you done a throttle reset?

Answer and I'll go further.


roadster with a stick

 

Complete stock base model. My dad bougt this one, bought a second one and I bought it off of him. 1 to 2 blows goats and its a rough start from 1 at that. I've been thinking that the clutch is bad and thinking that should take away my issues. It's hard going in to 1st from stop and a light shift to second doesn't work ya gotta give it a little bit of a snug pull in.

I just bought the car a week ago but I've been driving it for a good 6 months now. I haven't done any tuning, mods, etc. 46,000 miles on her with the cooper zeons for tires. I'm pretty sure the tires have been it's only upgrade since stock by any owner.

I have big plans for this car and I want it to be done right in every way shape and form. But first, I need to know how to drive it...

Help me out big guy?

 

OK, Your 1st gear issues are just part of the car. Some relief can be offered but the damm thing is just clunky. It is not you or your clutch.

Now, do a throttle reset.
Get in the car and put the key in the ignition.
Turn it on, all the way to the right, but don't start the car.
Push the accelertor to the floor. All the way hard.
Hold for 5 seconds and release.
Turn the ignition to the left but not off, and leave the keys in the ignition for two full minutes.

You have now reset the throttle to factory presets.

Drive the car and see if you have throttle response improvement. The engine will literaly seem "brighter."


Step one is done.

Cheapest peformance mod you can do on the car.

Until you get a sprint booster, you should do this every 4 to 6 weeks. Especially if someone else drives your car.


OK. Now we go for shifting points. This may vary from car to car and driver to driver. I'm trying to remember exact RPM's from before my dyno tunes so if anybody has better numbers for stock, chime in.

Remember that the rev limiter will come on around 5400 to 5700 RPM's
If you want to spin tires, two things to remember. One, most likely you can't. Two, the only way to do so, even slightly, is to turn off your traction control. That might be part of the "clunkyness"you feel.

Best power band is between 1800 and 4500 RPMs so shift into second at about 4500 or 25 MPH

2nd to 3rd is from 25 MPH to about 50 or 55.
3rd to 4th is 50 to 95
4th to 5th is 90 to 130
5th to 6th is 120 to top end (arguably 156 MPH)

There is some overlap but somewhere inside the overlap is the best for your car. Depends a lot on overall weight and how many people in the car.
Quarter mile speeds and time about 95-98MPH @14.7 sec. A decent Corolla can do it. Don't sweat it. Corollas are plain and have no souls.
With practice a little better is possible.

Spend money on a CAI and a good flash tune you can do better but breaking into 13's is next to impossible without major bucks or laughing gas.

TVT has some decent mod kits as does Eurocharged.

TVT is a good shop in NJ.

Eurocharged is in Plainfield IL about three hours from you and well worth the trip.

Both have ads here and are on the forum a lot.

Anthony at TVT is a good guy. I have met him and many here swear by his work.

I have had real good luck with Eurocharged and recommend them highly. Tony Lawshee is awesome at squeezing every ounce of HP and torque out with a dyno tune.

If you come to the CAA, Eurocharged will be doing tunes here on Tuesday the 22nd.

Hope this helps you get started. Don't hesitate to ask these guys or anybody on the forum. I'm just one of many willing and eager to pass on what we think we know about these really cool cars.

DID I miss anything guys? Chime in for the newbie.

roadster with a stick

 

you are the stick man Franc...I think you summed it up pretty good...I went back and re-read the start...don't know why I thought it was an auto...but you bailed me out.....again...lol...no one drives a stick any harder than Franc....except maybe Valk....

 

That's only because Gary is just plain crazy.

roadster with a stick

 

Franc, Let me just tell you that you are a god send. I knew I was going to need to surround myself with people that know these cars and was hoping to find that here. Well, I have now I’m just plain ole’ excited.

Well, I did the throttle reset this morning before work and I could already tell the difference just in my drive to work. I’m excited to play with it a little after work. You say do this every 4 to 6 weeks until I get the sprint booster. I’ve never actually used, or seen anyone use one on any platform around here. What exactly is it going to be doing and what are the gains?

The shift point information is exactly what I’ve been looking for. This should help me out a lot getting some decent pulls. I’ve been trying to learn the car and I’ve been getting a rough idea of where the power is. This is perfect though. I can see myself spending a good amount of time and gas in the car this evening feeling it out with those shift points.

What do you suggest for the CAI? Is there a specific brand that you prefer or no? I’ve kind of been looking around because I know I need to let my baby breathe a little better.

With the tune, do you suggest I get the CAI all put together and then make the trip down to Tony at Euro? If that’s case, that just sounds like a fun day trip and spending some time down there chattin with the guys at the shop. If he’s as good as you say he is then I definitely deem the trip worth it. I want to do this car up right and somebody that knows it inside and out, plus knows how to get the most out of it in a safe manner is exactly what I need.

As for mod kits what do you suggest? I’ve heard a lot of people going with the TVT kits but what is going to be the most bang for my buck? Obviously they have lots of different options in kits but at what point are you just going over board? I looking to get the full potential out of my XFire and going with tasteful modifications. I have a different thread for what people suggest for mods and kits. So, if you want to check that out and see what people have said then toss in your input there it would be greatly appreciated.

The CAA that you are talking about, I assume that it’s on the events page? Where is that being held? I might want to come to that to see all of your guys’ cars and then get some face to face pointers on mine. There is nothing better than spending a day surrounded by people that not only share a common interest in cars but in a specific car. I might need to take a road trip J

Ever since I started spending time on this site, my XFire and this site have almost become an addiction. I go from the site to car, from the car to the site, back and forth. My free-time is no longer free time. It’s XFire time… I’ve become utterly and completely infatuated with this beautiful, really cool car.

 

Glad to have someone with you spirit aboard. As you know, Franc, and many others here are great resources brimming with info on these little hot wheels.

The talk about a group of people enamored with this car, do yourself a favor and come to the Dragon, you will find out more about your car and how to handle it in a weekend than most people will in their entire ownership period (and it is fun to hang out at the lodge after the sun goes down and get drunk with a bunch of other XF aficionados )