yeah i think its more of a learn to walk before you run type philosophy which seems wise, given the amount of money the owner must've spent on R & D and custom fabrication.

 

No lies about boost or times.... If you want to talk about the physics we can sit down and I can teach you. The turbo flows a hell of a lot more air then the supercharged did. So do the intake manifolds and the intercooler. I didnt build this car because to make you happy... I built this because everyone said it could not be done and it was. And it was done in 10 days. Who said the ecu wasnt modified? Who said the car makes less than stock power? You assum a lot with out knowing anything about the car.

 

~edit~ not gonna start an argument

 

Superchargers cause parasitic loss. So really, they eat up a lot of the HP generated by the 14lbs of stock boost. So it's entirely possible to make more power with less boost using a turbo rather than a supercharger.

The 50 trim is only a "Tiny little turbo" if you own a 700+hp Supra. Outside of a diesel truck, you're not going to find a very many factory cars with a turbo even 1/2 the size of a 50 trim stock.

Here is a 50 trim next to a stock SRT-4 turbo:




This is a run by a 1-off creation. 10 days into the project. Low boost. Very conservative tuning. Using a turbo they had literally on hand. The car obviously didn't get boost until it was passed the 60ft point (you can hear a 50trim hit boost). After he DID get boost, he had no traction.

I'd love for this car, EXACTLY as it is in these videos, run a bone stock SRT-6 from a roll. Seeing as Eurocharged is saying it beat a heavily modded C32 handily, I don't it would prove to be "worse than stock".

 

well if you want to start asking "why" about things i think you might want to stop making so many assumptions.

how can you criticize people who are working hard and having fun with crossfire related projects?

for someone as upset and critical as you are about this "worse than stock SRT6" you might want to look into the fact that boost pressure is a meaningless number unless you know the amount of airflow.

i think they mentioned it made more than an SRT with most bolt-ons with 7 psi less. This tells us it is probably already at ~375 whp, with around ~12 psi. these things might mean a bit more to you if you drove an SRT-6.

If the airflow is more efficient you can make more power. "the physics don't lie" as you so eloquently put it. There are always going to be advantages and disadvantages to different setups, but to come in and bash these guys for experimenting and sharing their results is pretty ruthless in my opinion. Calling them liars is also a stretch since you obviously dont realize that a car with 750 hp and 30 psi, could also run a 13 second quarter mile while in the R&D stages. So c'mon man if you don't have anything nice to say, please don't say anything at all.

 

i cant stop lauging at the comments in this thread!!

wow... some people really do need to sit down with Bryan and have him explain the basics

 

Is the turbo running off of just three exhaust runners? I can't tell by the pictures but this could be the problem with some of the lag off the line. This is a great project and will be fast as hell when it's all said and done no doubt. Good Job!

 

are you serious?

 

+1 to that.

I'm sure Bryan and everyone over at Eurocharged won't have their feelings hurt by some comment on here...so I'm not worried.


Popcorn is in the microwave.

 

I felt dumb and have been reading up on this stuff, please let me know where I'm wrong.

Wouldn't it be easier to upgrade the S/C? There is another thread containing info on it, but I think he just upgraded his current S/C and not replaced it.


Turbo's run hotter, much hotter. Wouldn't this cause more engine damage sooner then a supercharger?
The amount of heat being produced burns out hoses and wires much faster then a S/C.
In turn the intercooling system would have to be upgraded significantly.
Isn't there more damage/shock done to the transmission too, due to the sudden increase in power?

I think the 1 plus is a nicer whine from the turbo. How will the turbo lag be overcome, isn't this always the case?

How would one go about buying a upgraded S/C?

I now know that superchargers eat up more power but with the right pulley it can be set off and have more of the power consistently there. I like the idea of having the power always available and not have to worry about any low rpm lag.

I guess this would be for the track only?

 

1) If turbos ran so hot that they destroyed engines, they wouldn't be more common than superchargers on factory vehicles

2) I'd love to see a bigger blower. But the R/D to do that would be far more expensive and complex than a turbo kit/tune. Setting a car up for a turbo can make it far more flexible. You just take off the turbo, and put a new one on (assuming there is room in the engine bay). Changing superchargers is not that easy.

I don't think anyone has ever built/ran a larger supercharger for this platform.

3) Turbo Lag is VASTLY overrated.

 

Somebody should have told the Forumla 1 guys back in the '80s that they had it all wrong. Getting a measly 1200HP out of a turbocharged 1.5L engine was just a joke I suppose? They would have been better off with superchargers, but those F1 engineers don't know jack anyway, right?

 

4) The H/E already has to be removed to change from a S/C to a Turbo application on teh SRT. The HE is water to air and the turbo needs air to air... well I guess NEED is a strong word...but I'll stick with it...Turbo applications almost always have air to air, unless you are in an 18wheeler.

 

More exhaust gas less lag or is this not correct? Just seems that it would take less time to spool with more exhaust gas running through the hot side. Like I said just can't tell from the pics.

 

No. There's a thread on MBWorld where a guy is doing just that.

C32T Winter Project, 7-800Hp - MBWorld.org Forums

This is a vague statement. Turbine housings, the exhaust portion of the turbo, can run very hot when the EGTs (exhaust gas temps) are hot. However this heat typically doesn't affect the engine itself but, in this application it might simply due to its location. Time will tell.

Sure, if you're dumb enough to have your hoses and wires touching the turbine housing. If you did that you shouldn't own a car.

Not necessarily. Water to air is still superior at dropping AIT (air intake temps) then an air to air. Our OEM intercooler simply wouldn't work in this particular application, nor is it cut out for increased boost seen by pullied superchargers. It's just to small and the location sucks. If it were a STS version then yes the OEM intercooler would work and probably quite well too.

Smaller turbine housing, more efficient exhaust system.

See the MBWorld thread

The faster you spin the blower the more power you are robbing off of the crank. Not only this but folks have already reached the limits of the OEM blower. They are making more boost but at a cost–higher AITs which cause timing to be pulled causing a drop in HP.

Couldn't be anymore wrong.

 

I am loving how everyone is dissing the supercharger now that a turbo has been put on the Crossfire....

 

My favorite is the guys in this thread that have zero mods on their cars and that never race their cars posting up like they know all about tuning and racing and being arrogant.

Both turbos and superchargers have their own pros/cons.

The fact that someone got a turbo working on the srt6 is great though, lets hope it results in some good times with good power. Not just a peaky and narrow turbo powerband that results in relatively slow times with high trap speeds that is only good for roll racing. I think they will get a good balance worked out though and we will see some nice results.

There will be a lot of speculation in the meantime, some of it silly but the results will just have to speak for themselves.

Good job guys getting it on there and running, keep working on it and see how far this platform can go

 

Speaking from experience with heat related issues. Rubber tends to degrade with heat over time. So would it be prudent for longevity with this setup to provide some heat shielding for the turbo? I know it's early in the development stage but just thinking long term. My 93 RX7 TT had many heat related issues due to the heat from the turbos. These issues were unforseen or ignored by the design engineers.

 

Thanks for all the answers....

Couldn't be anymore wrong as to what? It was a question.


Punctuation sometimes. Confuses? me! too;




I like that people are throwing up ideas it adds to the forum. Some people don't mod there cars because they don't want to. I don't believe if your car is not modded you can't speak or ask about the topic.

That's like saying you've never laced up game in the NFL but can't talk about the game after.

 

I know, and that was my answer.