The datalog tonight seems to show I'm getting plenty of fuel at the top of 2nd and 3rd, but there was a momentary spike in a narrow RPM band that has me puzzled.

The lean spike is the red text below in the image on the left. Please note in the photo on the right, that the A/F fattened back up and was very healthy (too rich) as it shifted into 4th.

By the way, my boost gauge was showing a peak of 23 psi on the run and it was 50F at the time.

d9c20f1a.jpg-----------------

 

IMO, the TTM injectors paired with the SL55 fuel pump is providing plenty of fuel. Now, do I think running stacked (at sea level) is going to make me faster? The answer is a resounding, NO.

Even with two heat exchangers (one huge and one stock) paired with a Johnson pump I'm seeing an increase in IAT's of 95 degrees, and that wasn't even a full 1/4 mile run.

I'm not really interested in adding an ice box right now and racing season is just around the corner, so I'm heading in a new direction. Tomorrow I plan on installing a stock SC pulley, stock injectors, and my old tune.

It's been fun (to an extent) trying to solve the lean issues with this car, but it's clear to me that my old 20psi car would likely walk all over the 23psi car parked in my garage, and that's what I needed to find out for myself. Mission accomplished.

Peace.

 

i think you should at least leave it at 23 psi for the first weekend of racing and try the setup. it will give me a fighting chance!

if you dont mind send the data to bruce for further examination

 

Thanks for sharing this journey with us Grip. Do you think the high AITs are causing the lean out? Did you ever try bumping the fuel pressure up?

 

I think the IAT's are unrelated, since the temp climbed even higher after the lean spike, yet the A/F richened back up.

I bought the equipment, but never increased the fuel pressure. The next guy will have to do that.

 

You should read back through 240M3SRT's build thread....he dealt with this for a year and could not stop it. 20+ tunes, fuel pumps, intakes....you name it we tried it. No fix....He ended up putting the car back to stock and selling it.

 

Thanks, but he dealt with what exactly? ...correcting a lean issue? I think that's licked with these injectors.

I also suspect the high IAT's I was seeing might be due to me running too rich.

 

His build thread is GONE!! It was 37 pages of incredible info. GONE!

It was called Dyno, rants, raves something like that.

https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...ts-ect-37.html

Here's the old link I saved. WHAT A SHAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Where in the world did it go???

Yes Grip...lean issues in 4th. Not on the dyno...on the street where it counts...Just wait untill you hit 25 lbs of boost...the car does fun stuff then. It will hesitate and almost throw you through the front window.

 

I'm pretty sure he never tried bigger injectors, or found out what duty cycle his injectors where at.

 

He tried bigger injectors, fuel pumps, more versions of the Eurocharged tunes than I could count. He finally bought an inmotion tune…same issues. He actually fixed the boost issue by taking off his needswings style intake and putting on the SL 55 intake (less boost, same hp) but he could not fix the lean spikes. He was seeing huge lean conditions in 30-40 degree temps in Texas, it was amazing that car did not blow the motor.

 

Ok, didn't recall that part.Wish the thread was still available.

 

IMHO, running 25psi is pointless without serious cooling mods (killerchiller, remote ice box, etc.) due to the extreme charged air temps. For that matter, 23psi is pointless for me right now. Later on when there is an upgraded intercooler/ice box kit from TTM, I'll go back to stacked, but for now I need to get things buttoned up for March 3rd.

I'm so impressed with the TTM injectors, I think they will continue to reside in my engine even though I'm going back to 20psi.

 

Cool! What's so good about the TTM injectors?

 

Sad part was he had every mod you could buy and even some that he invented and the car could not get into the 11’s. I agree about the 25lbs of boost, but that is what he was seeing with just the 185 back then. He ended up trying a 181 and then came over to the “dark side” and bought a code 3. (This is when there was a huge debate about boost and pulleys)

My car…at the time, with a Code 3 Pulley, Needswings single intake, Eurocharged canned tune and 100+ lbs of subs and amps in the hatch on 20 x 10 rims could run just as fast as he could at 12.1’s – 12.2’s all day.

Sometimes... at least with these cars….less is more.

 

I have always suspected that given the overdrive of the waterpump (41%?) and accessories (17%) that comes with the 181 pulley, that a code 3 (65 mm or so) should make about the same NET power

Chris

 

I couldn't agree more, it's a bit shocking when I see the efforts of so many go wasted... And three of the fastest Crossfires on this board all have the most basic mods -- S/C pulley, tune, Single CAI. Mimi and mrphotoman all are in the high 11's with those mods. Photoman did run a huff of meth once or twice, but still.

I plan on seeing my 1/4 mile times in the next few weeks. Granted, I'm not a serious 1/4 mile racer and I plan on hitting the strip with my OEM wheels, all-seasons in the rear, and the A/C or heater blowing (depending on the finicky TN weather). I like running my car in street trim; removing seats, installing rocket launchers, parachutes, wheelie bars, skinnies up front -- not for me. I like to see what I would run *IF* I was dumb enough to indulge in a little street competition on a deserted industrial road in Mexico.

For others, wringing out every last drop of performance is the goal and I salute them. But, it's kinda like installing a $20,000 V-8 to gain .4 seconds... If I can run a 12.2-12.1 in full street trim with three mods and a Starbucks in the cup holder, I can't see detroying my car, spending an additional $3,000 on more mods, and adding dozens of "track only" aides to get those extra tenths. I'm okay with running a "slow" 12.2

Anthony (grip-grip) is a phenomenal driver and I am excited to see him dig deep in the 11's... I fully expect to see him hit 11.5 before the summer is over.

Once the header group-buy is completed, I probably won't do much else to the motor. I'm getting to the point where 1st and 2nd gear are useless from a dig out of the corners... My focus is now going to shift to chassis refinement. And a better cupholder for my Venti.

 

Better spray pattern, lots-o-flow

 

Give Bruce a call at TTM and he'll explain. Here's cliff notes for those that haven't followed:

20psi + stock pump = Lean
20psi + SL55 pump = Not Lean
23psi + SL55 pump + stock injectors = Lean
23psi + SL55 pump + TTM injectors = Not Lean

Yes, there is a lean spike, but I've been told that can be corrected with a revision. Max boost at the top of third is pig rich, and that proves IMHO that these injectors and SL55 pump is all you need to get all the fuel 23psi (and maybe more) needs.

 

I have the "304" injectors in my car along with a split fuel rail, 181, and big intake. I datalogged on a 25 degree F day to the top of third gear. I saw almost the same situation as Grip, leaning out a little to about 13.1 AFR in the 5K rpm range then fatten up after 5800 rpms to about 11AFR. My recorded boost was 22.1 psi. I have a stock fuel system up to the rail, including the stock rubber hose.

I just wanted to add that my car also leaned then went fat like Grip's.