Ground Control kit reviews
 

I think it would be good idea to place all impressions and or reviews of this kit in one thread if possible. I don't have a review for the masses and my first impressions may be flawed because of a slight oops by the shop. I can't say exactly how it happened but heres the story. My car's ride height was set to the exact height it had before the install and then aligned. On the way home I was hearing tires hitting fender liners on the big dips/bumps taken at speed. Pulling into the supermarket/alcohol depot, I turned the wheels sharply parking and was scraping the front fender liners badly. Well, I get out and observe that she's sitting about 2" lower in the front than when I left the shop. The rear seems lower too but not much. It's raining cats and dogs here at the moment so I'm leaving it until tomorrow when I'll lift the front my self. It's easy enough to do. Therefore I can't say much, yet, except it can go lower than low. Hot FIYA low!

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

Your ride height looks right about where mine is set. I don't rub liners unless on track. I'm still on stock front tire size which is probably the difference.

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

I'm on the stock wheels and tires. I swap rims and tires at the track .... usually. I'll raise it up, go to the track and lower it a little at a time until it rubs then lift it a bit. Then it's back to the shop to be corner balanced. All I'm comfortable saying for the moment is the car rides similar to the K&W's, believe it or not. My -2.7º of negative camber looks to be around 4º at the moment.

Les

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

That front looks ummmm pretty low, here is how ours sits.

https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...=88724&thumb=1

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

I have an iPhone 3 so most of my pictures didn't come out. Here's a couple of the rear.

What I have: 2.25 ID 6" 900 lb springs in the rear. All 4 links.
2.50 ID 8" 1200 lb springs in the front. All 4 shocks are Koni race shocks, rebound adjustable.
The fronts and rear shocks have different part numbers that define the different rod lengths, but are otherwise the same. They are valved for my springs.

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

Im back at the shop. After raising it up some I decided they needed to revise the instal since I plan to hit the track tomorrow. I took a few photos in the sun that I'll post later. The front settled to 3-1/2 inches behind the front wheel.

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

Back from the shop with the ride height at a more reasonable level, where I had the K&W's. No rubbing anywhere at any time! I think a true street review should wait because it seems I received some incorrect parts (sized for 2.25” and not 2.5” springs) for the front which added to the drop problem and transference of road noise. However, here are my first impressions. All inputs result in much more precise reactions. The steering, while still needing lots of input, is precise. Move the wheel and the car responds immediately. No waiting. No roll or dive that I could detect. I'm getting more road noise from the rear of the car which I believe is from the rubber delete on all the links. To be confirmed at a later date. No creaking, banging or groaning at all. Even with my race alignment, the car maintains whatever line you put it on. No following lines in the concrete highway. Straight as an arrow. The tires are transmitting every bit of information about the road. You can feel what the tires are rolling over. Not harsh, I'd say informative. Perhaps information not wanted on a street car. Perfect for a race car. The race springs, while super stiff, give a nice ride. Perhaps a passenger would be a better judge because like I mentioned before, you can feel through the steering wheel what the tires are feeling, in a way. The quality of the parts is top notch. The system on the front to keep the spring from bowing is sweet. How the kit goes on isn’t obvious from looking at it. As a matter of fact, I was clueless. The shop got it right after a call to Ground Control. No instructions were included but I was told the G/C answered the phone immediately and was helpful and friendly. My race review won’t be ready for a while, unfortunately. I’ll have to wait for the replacement parts before pushing the car on race rubber.

On a side note, the kit can lower the car so much it'll sit on the tires in the wheel wells. I don't know how high it can go. My K&W's were as low as I could go without doing damage or wrecking. I was rubbing slightly front and rear with them.

Les

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

Thanks for the information bud and great for putting up the thread!
I will get mine this week due to customs.
We have both street and full racing kit for my albino srt-6.
More to come from from this side of the pond aswell!

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

Thanks Les. I will wait until you run them awhile. If don't move on to another car....this could be a nice change of pace for the XF's and get back into the mood of keeping them. I have hit a performance wall with the coupe. I need something more to play with....lol

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

I hear you loud and clear. We've hit a performance wall without opening the engine or using nitrous. My review thus far is of a racing set up on the street which is kinda useless really. This is going to be interesting you know. It took a long time for me to dial in, or perhaps adjust my driving, to get the most out of the K&W's and I expect a learning curve for the alignment, tire pressures, sway bar setting, etc. with the G/C suspension. I'm setting my car up to what it liked on street tires and I'll go from there. The good thing about road racing is a better handling/braking car can beat a higher horsepower car once you get around it. So much more time can be gained in the handling than with an extra 100 hp. I have to admit, power is addicting.

I parked beside a new Corvette at the alignment shop yesterday. It's huge beside the Crossfire except in height. Roofline is lower which surprised me.

Les

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

Yes sir, I understand. I think you have the right place to be doing your thing. I haven't had that much luck with the characters around here. You would think they are all Indy car drivers. More money than talent. Coming from the dirt track days, I am not easily impressed. But, that is me, not the car. I think the cars are competitive in a lot of different areas, round track and drag racing, even car shows. Vettes are everywhere. But I am impressed with the new Z06 for sure. Although not a hellcat fan, it has impressive numbers for a car of that size and weight. Not impressed with the Camaros. Although the Z seems to be a good round track car. Problem is, they are all in the same price range. Which leads me right back to my 2 cars. Both spotless, both still low miles, and both still quick in the quarter with no nitrous... Only time will tell what we do.. Maybe playing with the suspension will get my interest back....keep us informed. I am most interested in how the parts hold up under load....good luck

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

Les, make sure you double check all the jam nuts and torque mark everything.

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

Will do. It's part of my pre race prep.

Les

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

simple solution doc.....PORSCHE!!!!

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

Sorry my friend. I love yours, but you get to work on it, I don't and that is what I like...lol. Nope, still on the fence on what I will do....maybe this suspension Les is reviewing for us all will give me something to do and play with while waiting on some more go fast parts to be found and made soon I hope... Hope she runs well today Les...

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

You act like he is the only person that has any input....why? Lots of forum posts? My guess is you won't ever go to the track anyways.

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

Uh Oh . . . :eek:

http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/k...the-show-2.png

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

Well, well. I see some of your "calming techniques" from Jan. have pretty much flown out the window....

Enough with the chest thumping because "you were the only one who stepped up and donated his car".

Les has always been highly respected for his continued input on all the changes he's gone through on a race ready setup. And never once has he found any reason to put down a members comments simply because they weren't his thoughts personally. That probably comes with tons of "experience", something you seem to be sorely short on. Alot of our older members were racing long before you were even a gleem in your mommy's eyes. Instead of worrying about what others think, give us some credible input on what the setup has done for you. That's what most of us are waiting to hear about before we drop a butt-load of money on a system that has very little testing or feedback. I'd have conserns when you state that " I don't rub liners unless on track" which is the last place I'd want my tires rubbing. Makes it sound like you're not set up for racing. At least give us an intuitive review of whatever type setup you're running (street/race) and you'll probably gain back some of the respect you seem to badly crave. Otherwise, keep flaming away and see where it gets ya! :rolleyes:

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

Ok old timer, I have stated numerous times my impressions. The only time I have rubbed a wheel liner is on track, never on the street. I do have the exact same kit as Mr. Les. What gives you the impression I'm not credible or set up for track? Les I'm not trying in any way to under mind your input. It just seems most are so far up your rear they have tunnel vision. I will not reply to this post again. Good luck all.

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

Not sure where this all came from. Les never said he was rubbing due to a design flaw, but rather the spring perches may have moved or springs sagged quite a bit after initial installation.

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

Les has spent countless hours not only racing, but also posting videos, helping members, and most importantly detailing everything he does on the track so the rest of us don't have to try the same stuff he has already used. The fact that he does this for all of us makes us all respect him, his wins definitely help as well :D.

If you have something constructive to add, I am sure we would be all ears. Thank you for whatever part you had in helping with the kit, but until specs and the ability to order becomes available to the rest of us, it doesn't matter too terribly much, but the reviews help everyone...

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

Getting 2 kits delivered tomorrow or wednesday. Weekend will be fun :D

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

When I first signed up on this forum I spent hours and hours reading posts by HDDP, NoCones, 240, Cruzinquick, Distant Pulse and others from which I learned much about our cars. They weren't always agreed with, at times even open warfare seemed to have been declared. Not everyone is looking for the same thing and opinions will differ depending on goals, circumstances, etc. but that doesn't decrease the value of differing points of view. I value what Tommy has written. I read every word. I don’t find my posts in conflict with his. My modus operandi is to fiddle. I've already had my ride height as low as you can go in the front, by accident, and drive, not turn, but drive. The ride was on the bad side. I raised it up myself halfway from where it had settled and my former K&W height. The car rode much better. Now it's at the K&W former height and it rides even better. Still darn low BTW. Probably has something to do with shock travel. This is with stock rims and tire sizes. Next will come the wider race rubber and if it doesn't rub at the track it's going lower until it does, then back up a bit. If I hit the bump stops I'll say so. If the sway bar hits the camber arms I'll say so. If the links transfer vibration and sound I'll say so. (I've removed most of the insulation from the back) The more I drive the more I like it up to now. The front isolating rubbers got destroyed, were squished out one side and broken so now I don't have those rubber isolaters. When I get things right I'll revisit the feel of the tires, sound transmission, road noise. (Donovan is shipping replacements) I change things, go back, change again, and again and then for fun, again. This kit makes adjustments so easy! Maybe not important for a street car because it'll be set right and forgotten but for a racer it's priceless. I'll keep wrenching and sharing. Eventually there will be enumerable combinations of springs and shocks from Ground Control on the streets, not just the race kit. Everyone matters. I’ve had bad days, nay bad weeks when unpleasantness was my companion. It happens.

The suspension settled a lot. That's why it was rubbing. Donovan told me to go ahead and put the race tires on and have at it. The rubber isolater isn’t needed so that’s my plan. I need a couple of dry days first, the track is in a low area that floods and it’s still raining.

Les

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

Les . . . It looks like your whole island may be capsizing!

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I guess stock ride height will be possible if wanted, right? I just want to lower mine like 30 mm all around.

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...............

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

Don't know. I'll be back at the alignment shop in the next week and I'll ask them to see how high it can go. I don't think you'll have a problem with 30mm. My front is lowered around 20mm and the rear around 40mm at this moment.

Les

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

Good news, bad news and other news. I mounted my race rubber in preparation for hitting the track and ...... the sway bar has hit the camber arms. I'm thinking it happened after leaving the shop the first time when the height fell so much. I don't think it's hitting now that the cars higher, but I need to make sure. Tomorrow I'll wrap some electrical tape around the spot it hit so I can tell for sure when I hit the track. I sent Donovan a photo and he asked a few questions about how the sway bar links are adjusted. So I have some homework to do tomorrow which leads me to more good news. Too much work tomorrow! I haven't been able to say that all year. I don't think going to the track will be possible until a later date. Taking a good look without the rear tires on I can tell you it has tons of space to adjust both up and down. Right now it seems to be adjusted more or less in the middle. Stay tuned.

Les

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

Called the track and it's under water so nothing doing today, perhaps this weekend. My replacement rubbers haven't arrived either.

Les

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

The replacement rubbers you're talking about are the spring pads, right? The ones we can get from Rob in the different thicknesses? So the new coils from GC sit fine on the OEM spring pads? I guess it doesn't matter now what #dot pad you get since it's fully adjustable. Probably whatever thickness is the strongest and less likely to tear out? I'm still just trying to wrap my head around all of it. I know it's not rocket science, but.......

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

It's a completely different system. It's a isolation pad that goes between the base and spring. Here's a pic of the correct isolator and broken one as well as a front suspension shot with the rubber squeezed out before it let go. I received the wrong rubber by accident with the kit. Now I'm good to go.

Les

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

Thanks, great pic. I get it now.

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

Had the car corner balanced today. The number you can't see is 694. This is with the 13lb. battery, passenger seat delete and racing rims and tires. Oh, and me in the car with helmet, Gopro, Aim solo, fire extinguisher etc.

Les

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

Fresh impressions for the curious. I drove to the shop on my race rubber and back home on my street tires. I can say without a doubt now that the rear solid links transfer more sound. The front quieted down with the correct rubbers that were replaced yesterday. For street only cars, I'd forgo all the links. The exception being those lowered cars that need camber arms to get the rear camber in spec. Another observation is when the wheels are lifted off the ground the rear springs loose contact with the perches. They can't come out but could be a concern jumping curbs on track. A tender spring on top may be advisable for racing. I'll know soon. This isn't a concern on the street IMO. My rear sway bar lengths are set 1" shorter than stock. When we disconnected the rear bar to corner balance the car it sprang up about 2". I'm waiting to see how the rear of the car behaves on track before making changes. If the car turns out to be loose I'll lengthen them. If tight, shorten them some more. Next Sunday is a track day when more analysis and impressions will be available. The cars current alignment is front: 0 toe, -2.7º camber: rear 1/4" toe in, -1.2 camber.

Les

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

Yes, it jumped up about 2". I'll get under the car and adjust it to where it has no load.

Les

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

Here are the "take offs" and a picture of the stock camber arms where they were contacting the sway bar. Yep, even the curved stock arms were hitting.

Les

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

Man I'm beat! It was a hot one today,. I was nervous about the changes to the car, as usual for me. To cut to the chase I was within 1 second of my all time best. I got stuck behind a Suby that was pretty well driven with lots of power and was only able to catch him under braking. Being the type of event it was, track time, no passing without a point bye. So he cost me some 10ths. With the days heat I think I did pretty good. The alignment I chose for the front was close to perfect. I used Tommy's alignment, -2.7º for the front. For the rear I used what was working with the K&W's on my car. It needs a fair amount of additional negative camber the G/C race kit. Everything happens faster with the G/C race kit. Turn in, changes in direction, braking, lifting off the brakes all have immediate response from the car. I scared myself a few times in a section the has quick changes in direction because the car responds so quick to the wheel. I almost lost the rear of the car being too abrupt. The car worked better than I expected jumping curbs. The faster the speed the better the car felt. The bumps at 100 and up get absorbed much better than the K&W's. The race kit is a RACE KIT. Make no mistake, you will most likely be unhappy with it on the street. If your streets are generally decent and your 20 ish it's acceptable. I worked up to speed a little at a time. When I got to really exploring the limits I found the handling to be predictable, and when I pushed too hard, recoverable. With practice the car will be faster. No doubt. The limits are more or less the same (tires) but how you get there and and how quickly are completely different. Today the front was sticking and the rear on the loose side. Partially due to the alignment. Partially due to using air in the tires. When they hit the sweet spot (pressure) it's magic. With air I have to under inflate the tires to begin and they end up with too much pressure by the end of the heat. So my next mod is a nitrogen tank. It'll help a great deal and make it easier to get into a rhythm. My camber arms are hitting the sway bar. Not on track. On the street on big dips at speed that compress both sides at the same time. I'll be playing with the length of the sway bar links to learn if the contact can be adjusted out. As I reflect on the event I'll post more info. Did I mention how great the car feels over 100? Just amazing. Now to change the alignment, get nitrogen in the tires and adjust to the new feel.

Les

Re: Ground Control kit reviews
 

Visited my suspension and alignment specialists today with the knowledge and results from Sundays event. He frowned at me when he saw the rake I had in the car. We ended up lifting the front to match the back and went with more negative camber in the rear. I taped the sway bar and camber arms where prior contact has occurred. I didn't hear any hits on track or on the way home today so I believe it's resolved. I'll pull the rear tires and take a good look after a few days of trying to cause it to hit.
As a side note I have a video of the second heat. Somehow it's corrupted and I can't get my video editor to import it. When I solve the problem I'll be posting it. Some of the cars passed by my lowly SRT-6 were a Charger SRT-8, Boss 302, Ferrari F12, and others. One I couldn't get by was a full race Subaru STI. Everytime I got close enough to give it a go I made a mistake and went 2 wheels off or similar. Whisper number was 500hp at the wheels for him and I believe it based on how he pulled me on the straights.

Les