Thanks Mike. And yes Some times I think I'm the Energizer bunny! I don't think I'll be getting a film thickness gauge but thanks for the explanation, you are the master!

 

Great thread.

I'm a #m/Meguiar's fan.
Will your pads fit my PC?

Thanks

 

Excellet job Mike... long time no see.

I will probably get up the nerve to clay bar my SRT6 in the next few months as all the washes have taken their toll. Being a black car, it gets washed probably more than any other color.

You mentioned ... did you mean using a D/A (and no... I don't really understand what a D/A is either) or a high speed rotary (Porter Cable?) but which should I use to get those annoying swirl marks from all the washes out? I know the clay bar will help, but I've never done that either. I've just seen results others have posted.

Yep, I'm a n00b at paint care... I have enough pits in the front of my car from track and road time to equal a good pot hole. I will try and get to fill most of those with the touch up paint I got from the dealer and then use the "Paint Chip Repair Kit" I got from Langka.com to level them out. I presume I should do this prior to the clay bar and then removing the swirls right?

EDIT: Okay, D/A = Dual Action... I actually have an air powered dual action sander... can the buffing be done with this if the head is changed?

 

If your machine is a Porter Cable or UDM or even a Flex, then yes, our pads will fit just fine.

 

Hey Jody, you can use an air powered D/A for this, and if you have a velcro backing for your sanding disks to mount to then the foam pads should work fine with that. But you'll need a pretty sizeable compressor to power the thing for time needed to buff an entire car.

Otherwise the machine of choice is either the Porter Cable 7424 or Meguiar's G110. Use a polishing pad with something like M105 Ultra Cut Compound and take your time. As for claying, don't worry about that process as it's very simple. By the same token, however, don't expect clay to get rid of your swirls - it only acts on above surface bonded contaminants and those swirls are actually very fine scratches below the surface. That's where the buffing comes in.

I'd get the wash/dry/clay done first and then go at those stone chips before jumping into the buffing process.

 

Thanks Mike! As always... you know your stuff...

I'll see if I can get time to do that in the next few weeks... any recommendations for clay bar?

 

Honestly, most consumer clay kits are pretty similar so whether you choose Meguiar's, Mother's or ClayMagic it really doesn't matter too much.

 

Thanks for the advice, Mike. I ordered some M-105 and a yellow polishing pad. I'll let you know how it works out.

Thanks!

 

The secret to any paint damage/imperfection is to go from aggressive to least aggressive; but always start with the least aggressive possible. More often than not, elbow grease is better than brute force.

Although not complete , dated, and certainly up for discussion, the following list should help you on the abrasiveness of products for your vehicle’s finish:

COMPOUNDS, POLISHES AND GLAZES SORTED BY CUTTING ABILITY

Most Aggressive -> Least Aggressive

9 – Compounds
3M SUPER DUTY RUBBING COMPOND HEAVY CUT 39004
MEGUIAR’S BODY SHOP PROFESSIONAL DIAMOND CUT COMPOUND 2.0 VERY HEAVY CUT #85

8
MEGUIAR’S BODY SHOP PROFESSIONAL COMPUND POWER CLEANER HEAVY CUT #84
3M PERFECT-IT III EXTRA CUT RUBBING COMPOUND 05936
MEGUAIR’S MIRROR GLAZE HEAVY CUT CLEANER #4

7
3M IMPERIAL MICRO FINISHING COMPOUND MEDIUM CUT 39001
MEGUIAR’S MIRROR GLAZE MEDIUM-CUT CLEANER #1
3M PERFECT-IT III RUBBING COMPOUND 05933

6
MEGUIAR’S BODY SHOP PROFESSIONAL DUAL ACTION CLEANER POLISH MEDIUM CUT #83

5
3M PERFECT-IT II RUBBING COMPOUND FINE CUT 39002
MEGUIAR’S MIRROR GLAZE FINE-CUT CLEANER #2
3M ONE STEP CLEANER WAX, MEDIUM OXIDATION REMOVER 39066
MENZERNA INTENSIVE POLISH
3M PERFECT-IT SWIRL MARK REMOVER DARK CARS 39009
3M PERFECT-IT SWIRL MARK REMOVER LIGHT CARS 39109
MEGUIAR’S MEDALLION PAINT CLEANER #97
MEGUIAR’S SCRATCH-X #108

4 – Polishes
MEGUIAR’S BODY SCRUB A10
MEGUIAR’S DEEP CRYSTAL PAINT CLEANER #30
MEGUIER’S QUICK DETAILER #66
MEGUIER’S SPEED GLAZE #80
BLACK FIRE DEEP GLOSS POLISH

3
MEGUIAR’S BODY SHOP PROFESSIONAL SWIRL FREE POLISH LIGHT CUT #82
MEGUIAR’S MIRROR GLAZE SWIRL REMOVER #9
3M PERFECT-IT III MACHINE GLAZE 05937
3M FINESSE-IT II MACHINE POLISH 39003
3M FINESSE-IT II FINISHING MATERIAL 05928
MENZERNA FINAL POLISH

2 - Glazes
MEGUIAR’S BODY SHOP PROFESSIONAL HAND POLISH VERY LIGHT CUT #81
3M PERFECT-IT III TRIZACT MACHINE GLAZE 05930
3M IMPERIAL MACHINE GLAZE 05991
3M ONE STEP CLEANER WAX, LIGHT OXIDATION REMOVER 39006
3M PERFECT-IT III FINISHING GLAZE 05941
GEPC


1 – “Non-Abrasives”
MEGUIAR’S MIRROR GLAZE SHOW CAR GLAZE #7
MEGUIAR’S MIRROR GLAZE MACHINE GLAZE #3
3M IMPERIAL HAND GLAZE 39007
BLACKFIRE ALL FINISH PAINT PROTECTION


In the old days with #7 Sealer Reseal Glaze, and today with #81 Hand Polish, because these products don't build-up, that is to say they do not have any Lasting Characteristics, Meguiar's has historically said you can apply them often.

Many owners of street rods and aniques cars have never done anything to their car's finish except to apply,
* Deep Crystal Polish
* #3 Machine Glaze, (by hand)
* #7 Show Car Glaze, (used to be called Sealer Reseal}Glaze
* #5 New Car Glaze

and now even newer products like,
* #9 Swirl Remover 2.0, (by hand)
* #81 Hand Polish

For regular maintenance I almost exclusively use Clay followed by:
3M IMPERIAL HAND GLAZE 39007
or
MEGUIARS MIRROR GLAZE SHOW CAR GLAZE #7
and finish with
Meguiars NXT 2.0

For touch-ups I use Meguiar's detail spray.

Wax: Be careful using wax. It may not really be necessary. In fact, it can act like a magnet to attract scratch inducing thingys like dust/grit. Better to wash often (correct procedure, though) and use abrasive products less frequently. Wax is best on your wheels.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

 

Nice list, Veloce, but there are some notable changes to it in the Meguiar's line:

M105 Ultra Cut Compound is now our most aggressive product, closely followed by M95 Speed Cut Compound and M86 Solo.

On the consumer side, ScratchX 2.0 is now more aggressive than M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish, and Ultimate Compound is more aggressive still - probably on the order of M04 Heavy Cut Cleaner. But that's where things get interesting.......

M04 Heavy Cut Cleaner makes use of a diminishing abrasive that really requires the use of a rotary buffer to break down. It's sort of an old school "rocks in a bottle" product, meaning you can feel the abrasives in it if you rub some between your fingers. Ultimate Compound can be used by hand or with a D/A buffer as the abrasives are extremely fine, very uniform in size and shape, and super hard. This combination gives it great cutting ability but also leaves a very nice finish. Using M04 HCC by hand is not recommended because you can't break it down and it will most likely haze the paint while it removes defects. Ultimate Compound won't do this because of the nature of the abrasives.

 

While many believe this, I used to as well, it's not the case.

As a preface, I've polished many cars. I own a car care company.

I was using Menzerna Power Gloss on a 4" Orange LC pad with a PC. I had initially polished with IP but stepped up to PG as there were still some RIDS I wanted to get rid of. Needless to say, our paint is VERY unusual. I've talked to other detailers on Autopia and they seem to agree.

While polishing I was going along as normal on speed 6, I stalled for approximately 2-3 seconds to hover over a scratch. After moving away my PC, I found this:

DSC_1066-1.jpg

I went through the clear . Now, I do suspect foul play (previous owner) as to why the clear was extremely low in this area, but this is just proof it CAN happen.

Like Mike said there are tools to measure clear depth, but they're very expensive.

Here is an after picture, it's not really noticable thankfully.

DSC_1084.jpg

 

That is a far, far more aggressive combination than most people will ever use, though. In fact, it's a combination I (either personally or in my capacity as a Meguiar's Surface Care Specialist) would ever suggest. Most enthusiasts, and that covers just about everybody on this forum who enjoys detailing their cars (as well as most other forums with weekend warrior detailers) are not going to grab a heavy cutting compound to use with a D/A. Couple that with a cutting pad, even a light one like the LG Orange, and you're waaaaay beyond what most people do, and should, use. But doing so with a 4" pad and you seriously step up the aggression level.

A PC is actually more aggressive with a small pad since it concentrates the energy in a smaller area (a rotary is a bit less aggressive with a smaller pad because the rotational speed on the outer edge is much lower and speed = power here). You can actually generate more heat in a concentrated area with the combination you used than with, say, a wool pad on a rotary buffer. You'll get more heat, but less controlled cut, with the combo you used - especially if you hover in one spot with a fair bit of pressure.

Now, consider that you were working on a used car with an unknown history, and you really increase the risk of problems.

For an enthusiast user who follows pad/product/speed recommendations put forth by most chemical suppliers (Meguiar's etc) the odds of burning through a factory paint job are slim to none. In every case I've seen where someone did damage their paint with a D/A, and these instances are very rare indeed, the user was seriously pushing it (like you did) or did something so out of the ordinary that they set themselves up for problems.

 

So if I use some M-105 with the yellow pad on my orbital, I'll be OK?

 

Don - Thank you ! I'm now not the only one to do that. Fortunately my boo boo was on my wifes car and not mine. I was trying to get a scratch out, probably a key. I'd been very lucky and gotten out all of the other bad spots on the car. I guess I got a little too carried away, over confidant and bingo right thru the clear coat so it can be done. My car KOW has no swirls or scratches so I just use the PC as a buffer. I know I'll be a lot more careful if I try and remove any scratches. I was surprised that it burned through the clear on her car. You can actually see the reflection of a piece of dirt down through the clear on her car and the clear looks relatively thick. Like you mentioned it might have other issues, maybe its been repaired and the clear coat in that spot isn't as thick. When the car is all polished up you can't even see it, I know its there. Bottom line, don;t feel bad , you have company!

 

I too have been using am Meguiars(using Uncle Barry products) since age 30 (27 years ago)The dealer where I bought mine re-did hood to correct a chip they screwed up,andclear coat has man fisheyes in it and says they cant do anything.

Can the clearcoat be wet sanded and finished like you indicated, or am I stuck having to repaint whole hood again.

Any opinion appreciated

 

You'll be fine.

 

Fisheyes are usually deep enough that the primer is exposed, or at the very least deep enough that wet sanding would remove so much surrounding paint as to dangerously compromise the clear coat. I would not attempt it. If the body shop says they can't do anything about, they're flat out lying and lazy. The fisheyes are there for one reason only - poor prep. They need to stand behind their work and redo it.

 

Welcome back Mike,

I enjoyed your detailing efforts all weekend. Too bad they didn't show you perfecting the cars before they went on the block.

Stay safe...


Respectfully,


Paul (MisterTaz)

 

All we did was wipe 'em down with some Quik Detailer to get the dust off - no real "detailing" involved. Oh, and many of the cars were a total mess, most were moderately swirled at best. I think I only saw 10 or 12 cars with really nice paint, and just a handful that were near flawless.

The only car I did fully detail was the Spyker we had in our booth. It was brought to us with a bunch of buffer trails and holograms and I couldn't let a car in that condition sit in our booth, so I did this to it:

 

I tried the M-105 with the Meguiar's yellow polishing pad on my SRT last weekend. I didn't notice much difference which means I'm probably doing something wrong or I don't have the problem M-105 is designed to solve. When I roll my roadster into the sunlight, the paint looks just fine. I see no swirls or spiderwebbing. When I put it in the garage under a bare bulb, I can see little microscratches. I tried to get photos but all my camera picks up on the hood is the reflection of the rafters in my garage. At this point, I started wondering if I really have a problem at all.

Rather than get more aggressive with a serious cutting compound like M-105, I went back to my usual Adam's products. I used Adam's Swirl & Haze with the orange pad (2nd generation pad system). I put the D/A on 6, squeezed a couple of nickel-sized dollops onto the hood, and proceeded to work a roughly 1.5 ft square area. I applied considerable pressure--to the point that the D/A was straining noticeably. I slowly worked the D/A until the polish had broken down and was not hazy. When I removed the D/A, I hit the area with a misting of detail spray which steamed off the surface. I don't think I put any serious heat into the finish. It was probably no hotter than it gets on a hot sunny day with the engine running. However, that was enough to let me know I was probably doing all that could be done with that tool and that product. I then followed up with some Adam's Fine Machine Polish and the white pad, again applying considerable pressure and taking my time. When it was all done, it didn't look that different than when I started.

So, this got me thinking. Am I being TOO aggressive? I don't have serious swirls or spiderwebbing. I'm trying for a mirror-perfect finish so maybe I need to use less M-105 or Swirl & Haze and more polish. Of course, the polish didn't really get me anywhere, either. It seems unfair that the clear coat can take microscratches but not polishing.

Is my technique wrong? I perused the Adam's forums and they seemed to recommend using small amounts of product with firm pressure for a fair amount of time. As I managed to heat the surface to the point of steaming, I think I was using reasonable amounts of both pressure and time. Perhaps my finish is already as good as it can be with the tools and techniques at my disposal.

Perhaps these issues will correct themselves over time. I've been polishing this car for the last two summers. Perhaps after a couple of more, the small defects I see in the finish will work themselves out. Maybe the clear coat will soften with age. Or maybe I'm just hopelessly bad at this.