I know all this information can easily be found by hitting the search button. But is there anyway, we can compile the information with real dyno #'s. On to one thread for the upgrades listed for the Naturally Aspirated Crossfire:

*74mm Throttle Body
*De-Baffled Throttle Body Elbow
*c320/e320 Airbox
*Needswings Single Intake
*Needswings Dual Intkake
*DIY Inake
*Injectors
*ECT

Think this will help all forum members with their future modifications

 

great list but i dont recommend injectors unless you have time to tune the crap out of your n/a or if your gonna be running spray other then that its just overkill and results have showed you won't see any HP gain...

 

There's got to be a way to get these official Horsepower numbers

 

i was dynoed in the 255 to 265 range on various runs with all you have listed above plus some and thats without my spray if your serious about HP get dynoed

 

No you must misunderstand me, I am trying to compile all this information into 1 N/A modifications thread. that's why I'm looking for the exact dyno numbers for each modification.

 

Maybe you can start with a spreadsheet: mod, hp claim without dyno, hp demonstrated by dyno and have owners first check what they have done accross the various mod list, a column with hp clains and the actual from dyno IF they had it dyno tested. Fo example, my only mods are high flow filters (no hp claim) and ECT-hp claim of 24 hp. No dyno resuts. Do this in spreadsheet form and have the formula built in to calculate claim and cimpare to actual dyno rw-hp.

 

I don't know of many people that have gotten the N/A on the dyno, specially after singular small mods like the TB etc. Even less have a baseline dyno done so the numbers are usually aproximations anyway. The cost of some of these mods is less than the dyno and the gains are marginal so it's just not economical to dyno the small stuff by itself. It would be great if somebody did this but I wouldn't put off mods waiting for the dyno sheets.

At the end of the day there are only a handful of things available and the variance is small. As xfireon20z stated with an intake, tb, and tune you are basically in the 250-260 crank range. (Just over 200 whp) Underdrive Pullies, injectors, valve cover polish, exhaust and such will get you closer to the 265-270 range but above that the $ per HP goes way up.

Your bang for the buck/noticeable mods will be intake and ECU tune, the rest are to squeeze a little extra out (< 10hp if anything per item). I would do the big 2 first and anything else would be to enhance the efficiency/performance of those.

 

To the OP, It doesnt really work the way your intending...

Mods work in percentages, and differ upon other mods. Lets just say on a dyno if just a single CAI nets 10 RWHP and just a 74mm TB nets 5 RWHP, you wont get 15 RWHP with both. It doesnt work that way. You might get 12 RWHP all together, it just depends on the mod and what other mod you use to compliment the power. If someone has removed the rear cats and throws a CAI on they will probably have better results than someone who has done a CAI and TB swap since the exhaust flow compliments the air intake. The other thing to think about is, none of our cars are the same to the wheel. Your talking huge differences from maintenance, mileage, wear and tear etc...

If you only want a close number for each you listed then other stuff comes in to play like weather, altitude, the actual dyno machine plus the above at the end. Everyone calibrates the dyno they use differently too. Im at 2500ft above sea level in the desert, if I net 10 to the wheel from a CAI then that number is useless to anyone but me unless they come to my town, my dyno, do it at the exact same time and have it done by the same person, the same way.

If you want an average then I understand and thats fine just include text on wherever you write it to say, results WILL vary. Someone at sea level with net alot more than someone at 10xxxft......If people do include numbers for specific mods have them write up the altitude, what dyno, temp, other mods etc... It wont be perfect but you could get an idea, to an extent, of how it might turn out for your car.

 

This man speaks the truth.

 

Thanks John .. I reserved comment for the first few days thinking someone would figure it out or jump in lol.

The only other thing I can add is, if the "official numbers" existed, then wouldnt we have them after 8+ years?? lol........ Or even 5+, whenever Needswings and TVT and all them came about.

 

Agreed.

It all stems from people not stopping after each mod and performing the analysis. Worse yet, is some mods require others to function properly. So, in those cases it would almost be best to advertise numbers for small "packages". For instance, you can't measure the benefit of injectors without a tune. A 74mm TB is rather ineffective w/o first opening up the intake a bit. A car with intake, tune, exhaust, UD pulleys, bigger MAF/TB, and upgraded ignition would put down a healthy increase because all mods are in sync with each other.

Finally, only a few companies have even figured out how to successfully dyno the cars. And since most people don't live right next door, this poses a problem. To date, BEGi still doesn't have a baseline.

Adding an extra variable to the mix, our cars have an "adaptive" nature to them. In other words, sneaky air/fuel mods often don't get sorted out until you've logged a few hundred miles on the car. So the net gain might be very small if the car is strapped to a dyno immediately after the mod.

 

Exactly!!


The good ole wheel speed sensor limiting RPM and all that mess. It is still suprising to me that BEGi didnt get a baseline before mock up. Its been done, obviously they could have come in contact with someone who knew how they could do it. It's funny too, like alot of people, at first, they thought it would be like every other car, but if it was easy, well it wouldnt be German .


I never thought of this but that is very true. It just goes to show that there are way too many variables to accurately achieve numbers. Its money, time, and knowledge. If you had enough of all three you probably wouldnt care what the car put down, just what it could out run lol.

 

motorheads have been arguing this stuff since cars became a way to compete between each other.
SRT6's with similar mods turn similar times... within .10's of each other. Then here comes the DA argument...lol...or the tires, or the ..... lol... That's what makes it fun....

 

Truer words were never spoken...

 

The arguments can definately be fun ....

This is a better comparison aspect IMO. Its nice to know how much power your putting down but wouldnt it make more sense to know what your running as far as drag or track? It seems like money better spent honestly, 150 for a dyno orrrrrrrr 150 for a track day..... hmmm. I have seen more ET's than graphs.... just sayin lol.

OP, so a good option might be to search and collect times along with mods, DA, temp, overall weight if you can, just as much info as possible. The info should be easier to collect too since most people know this stuff when running at the strip.

 

i disagree with this. i had my slk32 on the dyno dynamics dyno at buckhead imports for just over 6 hrs. never had a single issue with speed sensor rpm limits or any other issue.
you just have to be smarter than the equipment your working with

 

I have never had a vehicle on a dyno, what's the trick they had? Is it connected to the ECU and they adjust settings or what? All I can think of is having rollers up front fed by the rollers in the back so that once the rear rollers move the front will...

 

Dont have access to a dyno but I could provide 1/4 mile times for tb and cai if my tires come in by friday.

 

My car is an N/A LTD. Eurocharged tuned and dyno'd my car. We got 211.4 RWHP after we did all mods listed in my signiture below. We dyno'd each mod as we did it. They know exactly how much each mod will give. We did stock filters vs. K&Ns, 74mm TB vs. 68mm, 74mm with 3in MAF, elbow debaffled and descreened, etc. and ran dyno runs at each step. They were just like us, they wanted to know. My exhaust is totally stock. Car runs really well, but is no SRT6, but it runs way better than it did stock.

 

Can you tell us what the gains were for each mod since you said they dyno -ed and compared. What was gain in K &N's on it's own and then Eurocharged on its' own????