I have heard a lot of information on the two major chips available for our Xfires and I have seen the graphs and a question comes up. We were looking for dyno proof of the hp increases and then SeaXfire posted one in his gallery which I assume he recieved from Upsolute. We know that the Xfires 215 hp is rated at the crank and not the wheels so why does it show 215 hp and then an increase to around 232. MBtuner just posted dyno numbers in Dec.04 which clearly show hp at the wheels at 176.7 and then with the Powerchip an increase to 185.7 hp. (9 hp at the wheels so about 13 or so at the engine?)
The latter seems reasonable as we loose hp thru the power train.
With this in mind, did Upsolute take 3.2 engine out and dyno it with and without a chip or was the graph made to support a hp claim? I just want to feel confident that the chip I eventually buy is the best of the two. Both graphs are available on the Forum. Any thoughts. Thanks

 

no, upsolute didn't do that. either they just made a general 15% driveline correction, or they are just lying.

 

It's really easy to make a graph say what you want it to say. Selling a PERCIEVED increase in HP is also very easy. I'd like to see a product where the increase is actually documented and veirified....... Remember the engineers at MB may have designened the stock chip for a reason, and while the chip cannot increase air flow, it can change fuel and timing and possibly ignore the knock sensor which when combined with advancing the timing will result in shorter engine life and possible early failure. I'm not convinced that taking a chance on a non factory chip is a wise idea if you plan on keeping your xfire for more than 50,000 miles. ........Just my .02

 

Nice to see someone on the forum has a brain. At last somebody figured out that the hp #s quoted by these folks are less than the truth. There are some reputable 'chippers' who do real tests but none, as far as I can see, for the XF.

 

Yeah! It's about what I thought too, just is nice to run it by someone else.
PS The shop manuals are great! I only have the one of two so far as the 2nd one should be here tomorrow but it is filled with diagnostic gems.

 

A friend of mine has been studying chipping claims for a couple of years for his C230K Benz, and he finally found a place that sounded like it knew what it was doing (after saying no at 10+ places). He got the work done, and felt "some" difference.

Luckily he got his car tested on a Dyno Dynamics rolling road before he got the work done. So he went back for comparison.

The power claim was for 25hp more - the truth was 5hp.
The torque claim was for quite a bit, the result was 10 foot pounds.

Had the chip removed, and received a full refund.

 

I wanted to get a chip but I just don't feel comfortable using Upsolute. First off I never even heard of Upsolute until the Crossfire, and I've been in the auto performance/customizing scene since 1997. You been around that long, and you haven't heard of a brand, theres a reason.

I also talked to MY mercedes benz guy who did my uncles SL55 AMG chip and turbo, as well as numerous other friends cars chips and what not, and he said he used Upsolute for a while, but they had problems, so now he won't do it anymore. Specifically related to cars check engine lights coming on with various error codes.This guy actually has an SLK as his daily driver. He says he would only go with Renntech, and I trust his opinion as more than just a salesman. After all, if you own a popular Mercedes performance shop and you drive an SLK, and you only use Renntech.... nuff said.

Anyway his opinion is enough to confirm my belief that I don't want an Upsolute chip. There are reputable companies like Renntech that make a chip, I don't care if it's more money, they have a name and a reputation on the line, so their chip better live up to what they hype. They have tons of MB owners coming to them for many different cars. Upsolute, on the other hand, has nothing to lose, since nobody knows them anyway.

 

I just checked out thier very interesting website with claims that seem mnore reasonable and realistic than I've seen elsewhere.

Worth a look....

http://www.renntechmercedes.com/chrysler/Crossfire.PDF

I'd love to see what this does to fuel economy and longevity.

Perhaps the safe alternative is to stay with the stock chip.

 

thanks for the link. this is probably the route i'll go as well.

 

A thousand bucks is a lot to pay for 10 extra horsepower at the crankshaft, which is only going to result in maybe 7 additional horsepower at the rear wheels.

 

If you read the first post it clearly says the guy with the Upsolute chip who dynoed it got a gain of 9hp at the rear wheels. So Renntech would be right there. I just think overall they are a much more well known brand name.. so they aren't going to do anything to ruin our cars.. or their reputation as a premier mercedes tuner.. and their #s are probably conservative to be on the safe side. I just trust them more and I rather pay $1000 than $400 from a brand nobody has heard of. Who knows if Upsolute chips are slowly ruining guys cars? I sure hope not but we won't know for some time. Cmon its the same thing as buying an xfire with 215 hp or a hyundai tiberon with 215hp and the same exact options.. One is just a better brand than the other, even though the hp is the same, and they both have leather, etc etc.

 

Hello, I am new to this forum, I have had my crossfire since April of 04, I can't find anyway to shut down the ESP....any help...thank you ...john

 

I did NOT receive anything from Upsolute. I was hoping my posts made that clear.

I measured the horspower before the chip and after installing the chip on the same day at the same place. I used the My Dyno accelerometer and software and averaged several 1/4 mile runs in both directions to get a reliable answer.

Obviously the Accel measures horspower at the wheel so I needed to scale the data to 215 hp at the engine. The scaling before and after the chip mod is identical so the comparison is exactly correct.

The testing was done on the same day, the same tempurature, the same stretch of road, the same instrumentation, the same car, the same weight, averaging several runs in both directions, acceleration was recorded 100 times per second. The 1/4 mile time is not used at all in the analysis so "technique" has nothing to do with it. The only thing different that could accelerate the car differently was the power from the engine.

I am not "claimming" any damn thing. I measured a 7.9% increase in max horspower. It was a good bit more in some RPM ranges.

Paying $450 for this was ok, paying $1000 for the same thing doesn't make sense.
Renntech does move the speed limiter to over 185 MPH which Upsolute and speedchip do not.

 

John: I noticed that when you shut off the ESP, that it doesn't entirely go away and of course the lite on the dash still flashes. I agree that I prefer that it completely disengage the ESP system, but so far it doesn't.

 

Seafire:
I only saw the "Upsolute Tuning Graph" in your gallery, not with any post, so, it looked so professional and only mentioned Upsolute, I assumed that it was from them. As I said in my post, I did not say it was for sure, I assumed only. Thank you for the clarification. Sorry for the confussion.
You mentioned the "Accel Dyno accelerometer", is that a unit like the G-Tech? I have one on order so I was wondering how accurate they are.
Thank You and Happy New Year!

 

Some of the links are broken from when the forum had its melt down.

Part 2: The Install
https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...0&page=2&pp=10

The Mr Dyno is similar to the G-tech (an earlier model) It records the data for review on a PC. Like many lower cost instruments it is accurate but noisy. The data needs to be processed a bit to be useful. The Mr Dyno is small, has many functions, and is low cost.

 

In case anyone is interested, Renntech doesn't "make a chip" for the Crossfire, they modify the original M-B chip already there. When mine was done, the Renntech Tech had actual M-B software in German on his laptop computer. (He was from Germany.) He coordinated the upgrade with a live M-B technician in Germany during the overwrite process. Since M-B assists in the upgrade, it is completely safe. These are the chip changes that are made:
1. Faster throttle response.
2. Increase of 10 - 15 HP from 215 BHP @ 5700 RPM to 225 - 230 BHP @ 5700 RPM.
3. Gain of 12 Lbs.-Ft. Torque from 229 lbs.-ft @ 3,000 -4,600 RPM to 241 lbs.-ft. @ 3,000 - 4,500 RPM.
4. Gain of 300 RPM over the Red Line.
5. Raises the electronically controlled top speed limiter from 158 MPH to over 186 MPH.
6. Increases the shifting RPM in first and second gears by 100 RPM and makes shifting throughout the gears smoother (with Autostick).

My Limited Roadster now runs like a dream and is very peppy! (I also added K & N Air Filters.)

 

ror0
Very interesting! It all sounds too good to be true! No physical changes and yet all of the above. Great!
Questions!
How long did the upgrade take? How much did it cost? How do I get it in Canada? What if I don't have a German tech with a laptop and a buddy in Germany?

 

Thats awesome. See guys, thats what I'm talking about! He actually had Mercedes Benz assist in the upgrade! Definately worth an extra $600 to have that safety net beneath you. Who knows what Upsolute does? Maybe everything is fine with their chips, but maybe it's not. I'm not taking that risk!

 

Bob G.,

The "Renntech ECU Performance Upgrade" takes a couple of hours. The built-in computer connector under the center of the Crossfire dashboard is connected to the laptop computer and is the only action required for the transfer. It is necessary that the M-B Technician in Germany be there at the factory at the same time for a coordinated transfer process. I know that Los Angeles (actually San Juan Capistrano) and Phoenix have actual Renntech technicians that perform this operation. Renntech's Headquarters is in Lake Park, Florida. For those that are not near a Renntech tech, the ECU can be sent to Florida overnight and they will do it, overnighting it back to you.
You can visit "http://renntechmercedes.com/chrysler/Crossfire.PDF" for more info. Contact: Bob Brady at "WBrady2410aol.com". Regular rate is $ 995. I paid $ 895.50, the previous "CrossfireShop.com" special mentioned elsewhere on this Forum.