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110 Octane race fuel

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Old 11-23-2005, 03:11 PM
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Default 110 Octane race fuel

Yesterday I noticed that my local Citgo station sells 110 octane race full at one of the 4 pumps for only 2.89/ gal.

Should I, it's tempting but the effects are unknown to me.

Is this safe?
 
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Old 11-23-2005, 03:39 PM
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Default Re: 110 Octane race fuel

The higher the octane, the more protection you have against knock (i.e. spontaneous combustion). Unless you are planning on running radically advanced ignition timing or you are going to FI with the boost way up, this is waste of money for you.
 
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Old 11-23-2005, 05:23 PM
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Default Re: 110 Octane race fuel

bump for more feedback on this...
 
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Old 11-24-2005, 02:25 AM
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Default Re: 110 Octane race fuel

High octane fuel keeps high compression engines from coming down with a bad case of head knock... still an engine with 10:1 compression and a knock sensor like the Crossfire, running very high octane, will fool you ECU and therefore it will advance the timing on your engine... and there lays the HP gain from running high octane gas. How much HP I don't know... but give it a shot brother, but be ready to hold onto the steering wheel. Just remember high octane does not produce more HP, your timing of the ignition spark does, understand?

Also if you want to move a little faster only put a couple of gallons in the tank, keep the weight down.

Let me know how it turns out... hooah
 
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Old 11-24-2005, 04:23 AM
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Default Re: 110 Octane race fuel

I think it would be a good experiment to see how fast you could blow up the engine, lol.
(ie, I wouldn't recommend it unless you have the ECU tuned to handle it)

As previously stated, it's really only for a car with FI or one that is tuned specifically for racing. Also, there may be additives in the fuel that aren't healthy for a regular engine.
 

Last edited by OnTheWingsOfCrossfire; 11-24-2005 at 06:57 AM.
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Old 11-24-2005, 07:16 AM
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Default Re: 110 Octane race fuel

Be sure it does not contain lead. Will ruin your cats!!!!
 
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Old 11-24-2005, 10:06 AM
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Default Re: 110 Octane race fuel

Originally Posted by FirebaseD
High octane fuel keeps high compression engines from coming down with a bad case of head knock... still an engine with 10:1 compression and a knock sensor like the Crossfire, running very high octane, will fool you ECU and therefore it will advance the timing on your engine... and there lays the HP gain from running high octane gas. How much HP I don't know... but give it a shot brother, but be ready to hold onto the steering wheel. Just remember high octane does not produce more HP, your timing of the ignition spark does, understand?

Also if you want to move a little faster only put a couple of gallons in the tank, keep the weight down.

Let me know how it turns out... hooah
I don't think you have a grasp of engine management or calibration. Typically, engines are calibrated near the knock limit (of the specified fuel) by the OEM. If you run low grade fuel in a car that requires premium for knock protection, the knock sensor will detect vibrations out of sync with normal combustion and send a signal to the ECU. The knock sensor is a piezo electric element that emits a very weak voltage when compressed. Therefore, it ONLY emits a useful signal when knock occurs. There is no useful signal to the engine when knock isn't occurring, and no signal to the ECU to adjust timing when higher octane fuel is used. In other words, the spark can only be retarded when knock occurs. It will not be advanced when running higher octane fuel. If it was that easy to adjust the spark curve outwards, a lot of people (reprogramming factory ECU's) would be out of a job. Most of those aftermarket ECU programmers just shift out ignition timing by a couple of degrees CA (crank angle advance). A few of the better ones also allow for more WOT fuel enrichment at high speeds/loads. And, programmable ECU's allow you to optimize both spark advance and fuel mixture (which is especially appropriate when going to FI). But again, since most cars are calibrated near the knock limit already, there is a limit to the amount of advance that is possible before knock (spontaneous combustion) or pre-ignition (combustion from a hot spot such as spark plug core nose or exhaust valve - two of the hottest places in the chamber) will occur.

Again, I can assure you that running higher octane fuel will not benefit you one bit, unless you need additional protection against knock because you are running with an ECU that has additional spark advance programmed in. The other time I would use premium fuel is if I was running with FI (forced induction) or N2O. In either case, more protection against knock is necessary (as it is a lot more likely to occur).
 

Last edited by juddz; 11-24-2005 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 11-24-2005, 02:33 PM
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Default Re: 110 Octane race fuel

Running a higher octane fuel will not increase your HP with a 10:1 compression ratio... It won't hurt the car either... If you really want to increase your octane level, just go to your local hardware store and buy a gallon of 100% Toluene. It is a hydrocarbon normally found in gas. It has an octane level of 122. Add one gallon of Toluene to 5 gallons of 91 pump gas and you're good to go.

If you really need to boost HP from your fuel use an oxygenator such as Klotz Coxoc, or if you're really frisky, Dioxane. A 5:1 mixture of pump gas & Coxoc and the proper ECU mod should result in a 10% +/- HP increase... For that matter, the same fuel mixture with your OEM ECU should give you about a 5% increase in HP... The OEM ECU will advance itself to a certain point based on its "learning curve", but not to level that you expect...

BTW... WILL YOU BUY ME ABOUT 500 GALLONS OF THAT 110 OCTANE GAS FOR $2.89 ? PLEEEZZZEEEE !!!!! YOU CAN TELL IF IT'S 110 OCTANE IF IT'S BLUE !!!
 

Last edited by HDDP; 11-25-2005 at 04:07 AM.
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Old 11-24-2005, 08:22 PM
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Default Re: 110 Octane race fuel

Right, on any ECU that isn't programmed to adjust to "high" octanes, it's only necessary/useful to run the lowest octane allowable without introducing knock. Running higher octane without advancing ignition will not increase hp, but running a lower octane that causes knock will reduce hp.
 
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Old 11-25-2005, 06:33 PM
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Default Re: 110 Octane race fuel

OK thanks for the replies. What do you think it would to for my '98 VR6 Jetta, it a 2.8 DOHC 5 spd... its not boosted, just intake and exhaust.
 
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Old 11-25-2005, 09:18 PM
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Default Re: 110 Octane race fuel

Originally Posted by bizzelz
OK thanks for the replies. What do you think it would to for my '98 VR6 Jetta, it a 2.8 DOHC 5 spd... its not boosted, just intake and exhaust.
Nothing but the psyche factor... Seriously, the octane boosters or higher octane gas is a waste of time and money, except for high compression engines that are prone to pre-ignition.

You should concentrate on oxygenators to boost HP through fuel...
 
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Old 02-07-2006, 09:37 PM
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Default Re: 110 Octane race fuel

Originally Posted by bizzelz
OK thanks for the replies. What do you think it would to for my '98 VR6 Jetta, it a 2.8 DOHC 5 spd... its not boosted, just intake and exhaust.
BIZZELZ: Seriously if you want a little chemical kick for your Saturday night drag race... 5 gallons of 91 octane pump gas, 1 gallon of 100% pure Xylene or Toluene, one gallon of Klotz Coxoc and one oz. of Marvel Mystery Oil...
 
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Old 11-11-2008, 05:25 PM
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Default Re: 110 Octane race fuel

Before we owned the Crossfire Roadster we used to have a tuned Mini Copper S turning out 230 BHP, the tuning company who carried this modification out told me to use Super Unleaded petrol, in the UK this ranges from 97 to 100 Octane. The main reason for using this grade was that the increased supercharger boost could potentially lean off the mixture and using 100 octane prevented damage to the pistons.

One thing I have noticed as a knock on effect is that our Mini ran smoother with better pick-up when running Super Unleaded (97 to 100) fuel. Yes it costs more but we only do 4,000 miles a year in the Crossfire so perhaps the additional cost is offset by smoother running, reduced engine wear and slightly better performance?

OK, perhaps the 110 is a bridge too far but what are your thoughts on running 100 octane in the Crossfire.

We can only purchase Regular @ 95 octane or Super Unleaded @ 97 to 100 octane in the UK.

Alan.........
 
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Old 11-11-2008, 11:01 PM
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Default Re: 110 Octane race fuel

110 is the leading fuels...Stay away from them. I add about a gallon of 100 to my tank every now and then, especially at the track or when getting a dyno, to prevent any possible detonating.
 
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Old 11-23-2008, 09:54 AM
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Default Re: 110 Octane race fuel

I was under the impression that the method of rating Octane across the pond was not the same method as used in the States. 110 Octane in Europe = 93 Octane in the USA.

Yes or No?
 
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Old 11-23-2008, 11:11 AM
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Default Re: 110 Octane race fuel

In answer to the question as to whether the same or different methods are used to measure octane in the US and Europe, I've posted (below) what Wikipedia (which is not necessarily the most definative source) has to say about the methods of rating ... and about Regional differences ...



================================================== ===================================

Measurement methods
The most common type of octane rating worldwide is the Research Octane Number (RON). RON is determined by running the fuel in a test engine with a variable compression ratio under controlled conditions, and comparing the results with those for mixtures of iso-octane and n-heptane.
There is another type of octane rating, called Motor Octane Number (MON) or the aviation lean octane rating, which is a better measure of how the fuel behaves when under load. MON testing uses a similar test engine to that used in RON testing, but with a preheated fuel mixture, a higher engine speed, and variable ignition timing to further stress the fuel's knock resistance. Depending on the composition of the fuel, the MON of a modern gasoline will be about 8 to 10 points lower than the RON. Normally fuel specifications require both a minimum RON and a minimum MON.
In most countries (including all of Europe and Australia) the "headline" octane rating, shown on the pump, is the RON, but in the United States, Canada and some other countries the headline number is the average of the RON and the MON, sometimes called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI), Road Octane Number (RdON), Pump Octane Number (PON), or (R+M)/2. Because of the 8 to 10 point difference noted above, the octane shown in the United States is 4 to 5 points lower than the same fuel elsewhere: 87 octane fuel, the "regular" gasoline in the US and Canada, is 91-92 in Europe. However most European pumps deliver 95 (RON) as "regular", equivalent to 90-91 US (R+M)/2, and some even deliver 98 (RON) or 100 (RON).
It is possible for a fuel to have a RON greater than 100, because iso-octane is not the most knock-resistant substance available. Racing fuels, AvGas, LPG, and alcohol fuels such as methanol or ethanol can have octane ratings of 110 or significantly higher - ethanol's RON is 129 (MON 102, AKI 116). Typical "octane booster" gasoline additives include tetra-ethyl lead, MTBE and toluene. Tetra-ethyl lead (the additive used in leaded gasoline) is easily decomposed to its component radicals, which react with the radicals from the fuel and oxygen that start the combustion, thereby delaying ignition, leading to an increased octane number.

Regional variations

Octane ratings can vary greatly from region to region. For example, the minimum octane rating available in much of the United States is 87 AKI and the highest is 93. However this does not mean that the gas is different.
In the Rocky Mountain (high altitude) states, 85 octane is the minimum octane and 91 is the maximum octane available in fuel. The reason for this is that in higher-altitude areas, a typical combustion engine draws in less air per cycle due to the reduced density of the atmosphere. This directly translates to reduced absolute compression in the cylinder, therefore deterring knock. It is safe to fill up a car with a carburetor that normally takes 87 AKI fuel at sea level with 85 AKI fuel in the mountains, but at sea level the fuel may cause damage to the engine. A disadvantage to this strategy is that most turbocharged vehicles are unable to produce full power, even when using the "premium" 91 AKI fuel. In some east coast states, up to 94 AKI is available [1]. In parts of the Midwest (primarily Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois and Missouri) ethanol based E-85 fuel with 105 AKI is available [2].
California fuel stations will offer 87, 89, and 91 octane fuels, and at some stations, 100 or higher octane, sold as racing fuel. Until Summer 2001 before the phase-out of methyl tert-butyl ether aka MTBE as an octane enhancer additive, 92 octane was offered in lieu of 91.
Generally, octane ratings are higher in Europe than they are in North America and most other parts of the world. This is especially true when comparing the lowest available octane level in each country. In many parts of Europe, 95 RON (90-91 AKI) is the minimum available standard, with 97/98 being higher specification (being called Super Unleaded). In Germany, big suppliers like Shell or Aral offer 100 octane gasoline (Shell V-Power, Aral Ultimate) at almost every gas station. In Australia, "regular" unleaded fuel is RON 91, "premium" unleaded with RON 95 is widely available, and RON 98 fuel is also reasonably common. Shell Used to sell RON 100 petrol from a small number of service stations, most of which are located in capital cities (stopped in august 2008). In Malaysia, the "regular" unleaded fuel is RON 92, "premium" fuel is rated at RON 97 and Shell's V-Power at RON 99. In other countries "regular" unleaded gasoline, when available, is sometimes as low as 85 RON (still with the more regular fuel, 95, and premium, around 98, available). In Russia and CIS countries 80 RON (76 MON) is the minimum available, the standard is 92 RON, however, the most used type is 95 RON.
This higher rating seen in Europe is an artifact of a different underlying measuring procedure. In most countries (including all of Europe and Australia) the "headline" octane that would be shown on the pump is the RON, but in the United States, Canada and some other countries the headline number is the average of the RON and the MON, sometimes called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI), Road Octane Number (RdON), Pump Octane Number (PON), or (R+M)/2. Because of the 8 to 10 point difference noted above, this means that the octane in the United States will be about 4 to 5 points lower than the same fuel elsewhere: 87 octane fuel, the "regular" gasoline in the US and Canada, would be 91-92 in Europe. However most European pumps deliver 95 (RON) as "regular", equivalent to 90–91 US (R+M)/2, and deliver 98 (RON), 99 or 100 (RON) labeled as Super Unleaded.
In the United Kingdom, 'regular' petrol has an octane rating of 95 RON, with 97 RON fuel being widely available. Tesco and Shell both offer 99 RON fuel. BP is currently trialling the public selling of the super-high octane petrol BP Ultimate Unleaded 102, which as the name suggests, has an octane rating of RON 102. Although BP Ultimate Unleaded (with an octane rating of RON 97) and BP Ultimate Diesel are both widely available throughout the UK, BP Ultimate Unleaded 102 is (as of October 2007) only available throughout the UK in 10 filling stations.
 

Last edited by SteveS; 11-23-2008 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 11-23-2008, 11:45 AM
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Default Re: 110 Octane race fuel

I agree SteveS, just like you said (I think)?

Alan.
 
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Old 11-23-2008, 12:07 PM
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Default Re: 110 Octane race fuel

Originally Posted by rapitrol
Be sure it does not contain lead. Will ruin your cats!!!!
BE SURE IT DOES NOT CONTAIN LEAD had to repete that because it will screw up everything,,, maybe they have 100 octane unleaded that is what i try to use when i can. jim
 
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Old 12-15-2008, 12:28 PM
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Default Re: 110 Octane race fuel

i noticed the station has 110 octane racing fuel blue max ,
would it hurt to put 2 gallonsmixed with a full tank ,
it prolly had lead though...
 
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Old 12-15-2008, 12:44 PM
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Default Re: 110 Octane race fuel

110 fuels sold in the US are LEADED! Stay away...If you see a pump that has any kind of racing fuels, read the information. It states either leaded or unleaded.
 
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