Why I hate America

By Mickey Z.

09/16/07 "Information Clearing House" -- --- "Why do you hate America?" This is a remarkably easy question to provoke. One might, for instance, expose elements of this nation's brutal foreign policy. Ask a single probing question about, say, U.S. complicity in the overthrow of governments in Guatemala, Iran, or Chile and thin-skinned patriots (sic) will come out of the woodwork to defend their country's honor by accusing you of being "anti-American." Of course, this allegation might lead me to ponder how totalitarian a culture this must be to even entertain such a concept, but I'd rather employ the vaunted Arundhati defense. The incomparable Ms. Roy says: "What does the term 'anti-American' mean? Does it mean you are anti-jazz or that you're opposed to freedom of speech? That you don't delight in Toni Morrison or John Updike? That you have a quarrel with giant sequoias?" (I'm a tree hugger remember? I don't argue with sequoias.)

When pressed, I sometimes reply: "I don't hate America. In fact, think it's one of the best countries anyone ever stole." But, after the laughter dies down, I have a confession to make: If by "America" they mean the elected/appointed officials and the corporations that own them, well, I guess I do hate that America-with justification.

Among many reasons, I hate America for the near-extermination and subsequent oppression of its indigenous population. I hate it for its role in the African slave trade and for dropping atomic bombs of civilians. I hate its control of institutions like the United Nations, World Bank, International Monetary Fund, and World Trade Organization. I hate it for propping up brutal dictators like Suharto, Pinochet, Duvalier, Hussein, Marcos, and the Shah of Iran. I hate America for its unconditional support for Israel. I hate its bogus two-party system, its one-size-fits-all culture, and its income gap. I could go on for pages but I'll sum up with this: I hate America for being a hypocritical white supremacist capitalist patriarchy.

After a paragraph like that, you know what comes next: If you hate America so much, why don't you leave? Leave America? That would potentially put me on the other end of U.S. foreign policy. No thanks.

I like how Paul Robeson answered that question before the House Un-American Activities Committee in 1956: "My father was a slave and my people died to build this country, and I'm going to stay right here and have a part of it, just like you. And no fascist-minded people like you will drive me from it. Is that clear?"

Since none of my people died to build anything, I rely instead on William Blum, who declares, "I'm committed to fighting U.S. foreign policy, the greatest threat to peace and happiness in the world, and being in the United States I the best place for carrying out the battle. This is the belly of the beast, and I try to be an ulcer inside of it."

Needless to say, none of the above does a damn thing to placate the yellow ribbon crowd. It seems what offends flag-wavers most is when someone like me makes use of the freedom they claim to adore. According to their twisted logic, I am ungrateful for my liberty if I have the audacity to exercise it. If I make the choice to not salute the flag during the seventh inning stretch at Yankee Stadium, somehow I'm not worthy of having the freedom to make the choice to not salute the flag during the seventh inning stretch at Yankee Stadium. These so-called patriots not only claim to celebrate freedom while refusing my right to exploit it, they also ignore the social movements that fought for and won such freedoms.

There's plenty of tolerated public outcry against the Bush administration and the occupation of Iraq, but it's neither fashionable nor acceptable to go as far as saying, no, I do not support the troops and yes, I hate what America does. Fear of recrimination allows the status quo to control the terms of debate. Until we voice what is in our hearts and have the nerve to admit what we hate...we will never create something that can be loved.

Mickey Z. can be found on the Web at http://www.mickeyz.net.

 

Thought provocing indeed!
You will no doubt get slammed by some forum members who can't see the big picture.
But, we should always support our troops! They are doing their jobs!
The way Vietnam veterans were treated when they returned home was a national embarrassment.
Just like policemen who are hated for doing their jobs. They should be supported for the work they perform. Even if a crooked few act dishonestly.

 

yeah I agree you, have to support the troops, but I have to agree with 90% of what he says about amerika

 

What's the point of this thread? If you don't like America there are plenty of websites in which to voice your opinion other than this one. As a died-in-the-wool American I find this thread offensive. That is MY opinion.

 

You have some true points. Especially about the growing disparity between the haves and have nots ("income gap"). And I truly believe this country is going to hell in a hand basket (mostly due to the overwhelming corruption of our government). But this is my country, and theres no other place I'd rather live.

 

The income gap in America is small compared to other nations. The people who say they want to fix the income gap by offering many social programs only make the problem worse. The more social programs in a society the more likely you are to have a working class dependent on the gov't that gets no more money than the freeloaders and then you have a small class with most of the wealth. All you have to do is travel around the world to see that. Look at places like Denmark, Sweden, and the Netherlands then have huge classes that are dependent on the system while people who go to work are taxed to death while their gov't uses scare tactics telling them that if they didn't pay so many taxes their country would be overrun by crime and people would be dying in the streets because of poor health care. Sorry but you can keep your commie crap. Socialism has never worked and never will. It rewards laziness and doesn't reward hard work. Another article written by someone who has no clue.
~Juice

 

Any country run by humans, and any human, for that matter; can and WILL let you down at some point. Not a matter of if, but when.

No country, entity, or human is immune to this, because no person is perfect. Therefore no system composed of and run by humans will ever be perfect. No matter how many systems of checks-and-balances are present; no matter how many "options" there are on a voting card, there will ALWAYS be a Jim, Bob, or Larry to object. SomeONE will find some flaw to the system no matter what. And that someONE will invariably spout about and make their woes known.

It's this "sh!tty country" of America that allows us to publicly proclaim this w/o getting your head sliced off by a machete and stuffed three feet up your ****, in front of your family. So while the political parties, foreign policies, and economic infrastructures may be flawed; I say with certainty that "Mickey Z" has flaws within him that p!ss off his wife, friends, family, and co-workers.

Let the sinless one cast the first stone, sir.

Furthermore, while I agree that our nation has some areas that need improvement, WE ALL DO, as individuals. Concerning our foreign policy, please inform me of the last time Iran sent a care package to the U.S. for our starving children in the backwoods of SmallTown, USA. Please provide documentation of the last instance of Thailand contributing any significant monetary gift to the public education system that our kids glean information from.

I respect his right to create the gripe, as my grandfathers, my father, and my sister fought for this right. But what are his plans of action to instate change? Hot air about how much this country sucks, as he lays his head down on a warm dry pillow at night with a full stomach? Or will he invest his own time, money, and resources to create a turnaround.

Spend six weeks in a third-world country, or any other country outside of Europe for that matter, and vent with the same fervor about how much their government/soldiers/politics suck.

If you even make it back alive, you'll surely learn to tolerate the so-called "bullsh!t" that our terrible country forces you to endure. I promise you it's not so bad as Mr. Mickey says it is... poor guy.

$5 says any man alive in Cambodia, or Russia, or Ukraine, or Croatia will swap places with him in a heartbeat.

Driving a svelte sports car in a free nation with no religious madates and the ability to post this cancerous bullsh!t is a terrible life to lead, Maxwell. As said before, I'm sure any man in any of the afore-mentioned countries will gladly trade, and let you place hands on the plow where he is having to toil for mere potatoes.

I digress...

God Bless you, sir.

 

I agree with the socialism doesn't work and I'm not for that at all. The Iraq war for example is nothing but a rich mans war funded by the tax payers and the lives of the poor and middle class citizens. This war is about nothing but making a few rich people even richer. "Commie crap", I don't think so, someones personal point of view, yes. A little over the top, yes, but has some IMO good and true points. "Commie crap", would be not letting him express his opinion. Its all good tho, this country is still the best regardless.

 

Maxwell...You have courage, and I applaud you for that.

Fresh Squeezed...Offer them a choice of Canada or Untied States of America...They might want to become a real hockey player... Then later they can always be drafted across the border for the Big kahunas ....Ha Ha

 

Right On. You make too much sense for a 23 Y.O.

I cannot stand the grenade thowers who tell us about all of the problems, but yet provide no solutions. This is another perfect example. Not one idea to make America better.

These people would get much more attention and support if they would actually propose some ideas for correcting the problems that they are so quick to point out with their 20/20 hindsight.

Personally, I do not "beech" about anything without offering suggestions as to how my problem can be resolved. Even if one doesn't aggree with me, at least they usually understand that I have thought out my position and can respect me for that. And I respect them as well. I have no respect for the aforementioned grenade throwers.

One other thing. The author was quick to point out the dictators we propped up, but failed to mention the dictators we took down like Hitler. .... Typical

 

"I respect his right to create the gripe, as my grandfathers, my father, and my sister fought for this right. But what are his plans of action to instate change? Hot air about how much this country sucks, as he lays his head down on a warm dry pillow at night with a full stomach? Or will he invest his own time, money, and resources to create a turnaround."

Not everybody is out to single handidly change the world themselves. There's nothing wrong with voicing his opinion. The "I hate America" thing is a lil over the top I'd agree.

"Spend six weeks in a third-world country, or any other country outside of Europe for that matter, and vent with the same fervor about how much their government/soldiers/politics suck"

That put yourself in some other shmucks shoes arguement is pretty narrow minded also. Just because it sucks more to live somewherelse doesn't mean we should overlook and keep our mouths shut about things wrong here.


Opinions are opinions, "grenade throwers" are a necessary evil as they may spark someone who will actually go out and try make those changes they speak of. This is what makes this nation great, Freedom of speech. Everybody here has good points, but no one arguement is 100% right.

 

I'll respect that... that's a very valid point.

 

So are you encouraging a communist state where you all drive Neons?

Cream rises to the top....There are perfectly good reasons why there are middle and high income earners..It's not by chance....Many people have come from poverty and gone onto great success....It's the American dream.

You can have the best economy in the world and you will have those that choose to collect Wellfare, even third generation wellfare..

I'm where I am because I'm a hard worker and I'm smart with my money..should I feel guilty or share my success with the under motivated because he/she chooses to sit on the couch or **** it all away?.... In the law of nature if you are too lazy to find food you perish

I am in full favour of helping impoverished people and nations learn to help themselves through lifeskill assistance,health, and education.


My two cents

 

True statements indeed. I'm sure you make a good living and doing well for yourself, but it was not directed towards you(the "haves"). I'm willing to venture and say that if your are here on a crossfire forum your not one of the "haves" I'm referring to. I agree with everything you said and I applaud your hard work. People like you are what keep this country going.

 

I hate this... I hate that...

"Go 'way boy, Ya bother me."

 

Well put Opticon. Are you related to infernoredxfire by any chance?

 

Liberal filth.

WARNING: The following rant is aimed at the points the original author makes not anyone in here in particular.

I love the part about how its the best country anyones ever stole. Cry me a river. Im guessing hes refering to the poor native americans who only tried to help us. You can bet your butt they stole it before someone before them. Last time i checked tribes went to war with each other over territory commonly, much like gangs do today. What a upstanding bunch of citizens . Sometimes you have to take what you need. Or we could have just stayed in Britain and faced religious persecution. Sure that sounds great.

As far as participating in slave trade, i dont agree with owning another person. But let me just make one point and see if you can tell me im wrong. African Americans were living in a low-tech society plagued by viruses and AIDs. They had a pretty shitty quality of life with an even lower life expectancy. They lived in little naked tribes and threw spears at rabbits for food. They even killed neighboring tribes much like the native american formerly discussed. Last time i check the stronger tribes actually killed and took slaves from the weaker tribes to sell to us. Ill admit they had it hard for the last 200 years but are they not in a better place now? They absolutely DOMINATE the music industry, and dive nice cars just like the so called "haves". Where else can an uneducated "gangster" down for his "set" make MILLIONS of dollars exploiting the stupidity of our youth talking about things they dont even need to be hearing(many of whom are little white children incapable of comprehending the things their rapping about)? They own MTV. They have their own station BET, etc. If you had a W(hite)ET you would be called a racist. And dont be a hypocrite and tell me thats different. Furthermore....if they were really that happy over there i would gladly vote to give some of my tax money to give them a 1 way ticket back. Hell id do that for anyone who wants to live elsewhere. Yes it will put you at the other end of our foreign policy. But then again you not using that fear of our foreing policy as a cop-out to not fight for what your willing to say you believe in...right. WRONG...your a liberal...thats what yall do

Oh and about the haves and havenots. YOU ARE ENTITLED TO THE SWEAT OF YOUR BROW. No ones owes you s-h-i-t. If you dont like where you are do something to change it. Minorities and low income families have more opportunities in this society than DO BLUE AND WHITE COLLAR. Why do the harder you work and the more you make the more tax you pay, but the less you make and the lazier you are THE MORE HELP YOU GET FROM SOCIAL PROGRAMS?? Why must those that work harder and make more money pay more taxes...to fund the social programs of the so called "needy".

And about how we bombed citizens with nuclear weapons...haha. Its WAR...WAR...WAAAAARRRRRRRRR!!!! Did it or did it not lead to the end of WW2? Yes. Thank you. It saved American lives.....that could only be a bad thing to someone on the extreme left.

I know i know....im missing the big picture. Bush is evil and he actually created Hurricane Katrina and used a remote control device to actually steer it toward New Orleans. But not before everyone heard the sonic boom created by the dynamyte BUSH used to topple the levies....and the TWIN TOWERS

Wow....im just getting warmed up. More to come, must actually do some work now. Someone flame me please, i need more fuel for my anti-liberal fire.

BTW, this thread would be more appropriate in the political section.

 

All I can say about all that is, WOW. If he's extreme left, your definitely extreme right, LOL. Had a few things to get off your chest there champ? I don't think he was talking about any particular race when he refers to the (have nots). The "haves" I believe he's referring to are the people/corporations behind the seens pulling the strings. You my friend are not one of those people. What you have, no offense, isn't a drop in the bucket to what these "haves" are making. You and I are the hard working middle class that these people are using to make their fortunes off. Now I know nobody is specifically targeting you and I, but if you look at the big picture you will see how corrupt our government is. Hardly anything they do is for the average joe to succeed or make it ahead. Its built towards keeping the rich getting richer and giving us just enough of the pie to keep quite. I am not left wing and honestly my piece of the pie keeps me content most the time, but blind, I'm am not. So bring your worst 240m3srt, I'm ready to shoot you down.

 

I do agree with some of your points especially that atom bomb bit, ITS FRIGGIN WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .

 

Sometimes I simply wonder if Maxwell is just trying to get a group of members to get all excited about a subject for the simple pleasure of having something else to read here besides mods for our cars etc. Give that some thought for just a moment.......
I personally don't read deep into all the threads to these kind of posts as I have other things to do with my time.