Before you type another word, I strongly suggest you go back to the other mosque thread (you know, the one where it's basically 100+ posts of people thinking the mosque is unethical and poor taste) and read my contributions.

Hate is a word that has never been typed by me on this forum, and it never crosses my lips. In traditional "progressivism" rebuttal, not only you but also radmanly both interpret my refusal to support a belief system as a hatred for individuals, which is the dumbest ASSumption I've ever observed.

I cannot and will not support the fundamental beliefs of Islam. You know, the beliefs and political/religious views of Muhammad (who is the effective role model of Islam).

This does not, however, translate into me hating Muslim people. Their religion is something I refuse to embrace, for all reasons listed in my first post. BUT, the person is someone I must love (again, for all the reasons listed in my first post based on the life of Jesus).

For you to confuse the two really exposes yourself, and honestly I'm disappointed that in all the time on this forum you would presume that I would be violent towards or hate someone simply because of their beliefs.

Take another example: The act/practice of homosexuality is something that disgusts me and I refuse to ever embrace it or accept it as "normal". Even God Himself lists it as an abomination. Yet, lest I be a hypocrite, I must also disapprove of HETEROsexual debauchery. And that is the reason that I am waiting until marriage to have sex with Kim. She and I have very similar views, and we both fully believe that the fullest blessings will come from it. Plus, I have the peace of mind of not living in duality and judging the act of homosexuality while tearing it up with a woman outside of marriage. BOTH are sins in God's eyes.

But the point of all this? I despise the SIN, but I must love the PERSON. I have many asosciates and co-workers that are gay. And I think they are great people, and therefore I treat them no differently than any of my hetero friends.

Same rule applies for Muslims. I despise Islam, but I must love the people under its umbrella.

Muslims = people
Islam = theology

See the above diffences? I'm sure you have many gay friends that you think highly of. Yet, I doubt we'll catch Musclefan spooning with another man.

It is EXACTLY the same analogy with me and Islam.

Also, addressing the point that I made a second post, asking about my fellow believers: The first post was an excerpt from another man's work. NOT my research, NOT my penned thoughts. In fact, MY contributions to the original post were limited to the bold text at the top.

However, post after post in this thread consisted of the following:

• I am my god.
• There's a god, somewhere, but I haven't committed to anything
• electricity is a god
• my Crossfire is a god

So on, and so forth.

Not one person, short of Pizzaguy, actaully had the cojones to claim Christ and back up a brother despite 200+ thread views.

Do I NEED the support of others? Absolutely not. My salvation is based on my relationship with Jesus Christ and the redemptive work of the cross. Nothing more, nothing less. The mockings of pluralists and worshippers of relativism won't dissuade me one bit from the love of my Savior.

Support is nice, but not necessary. In fact, you're blessed when you're mocked.

So, mock on, bretheren.

Like I said, the important things in life are related to gathering extra horsepower and stopping sooner, right? It's not like these cars are toys, or anything. It's not like we're on this earth for a purpose other than dying with the most toys, right?

At the end of the day, I'll wrench with you, drive with you, race with you, and have a beer with you.

As for the accusations that I'm filled with hate and violence... you have no clue how ignorant a statement that is. And it's a shame that's all you can see.

As for me and my house, I will serve the Lord. Unashamed.

 

Well, that is not what I got from his post. He was lamenting the silence of the rest of us, which is wrong on several levels.

Not to Christians, we are instructed to provide both to all. Not saying we do very well at it, but that IS the way we are instructed to live.

(But I do like that line. Outside of the Christian realm, it would be a wonderful way for the world to live. Do you think the world will EVER get there? I don't.)

 

I really do not want to get in too deep in religious conversations. So, I refuse to read the mosque thread. I didnt even read rest of your post, up until the quoted line. Religion, Not only it has taken many lives, it has also destroyed many beautiful friendships. If religions were followed the way they were intended to, I dont think there would be problem today. But us Humans love to take things at extreme levels and this has caused many disasters and also destroyed the pureness of religions.

I did not say that you are a violent person. I meant ,"think of being extremist, radical like some people. Then to defend what you believe, you would hurt people, like those extremists." There are levels of defending your beliefs. Some simply talk about it, some get in heated arguments, some use physical force, etc. What you are doing is, simply talk about what you believe. Which understandable and I support you on that. I think you should defend what you believe. But just dont expect sempathy from everyone, because just like you defend your beliefs, other people do the same. Some normal, some extreme.

The best thing is so love humanity, be a good person. I think the sun will raise on you at the end, no matter what you are, who you.

God bless all of us.

 

Points taken. And I appreciate you expounding on your earlier thoughts...

Should you meet me in person, you'd find me to be one of the most accepting and accommodating individuals out there. This discussion would change none of that.

 

You would never be judged by me due to your religion. I just dont care, i look at anyone as a human being and if you are cool, you are my friend and will have my love. However, I am always afraid that people will judge me with their religions and we will bump heads (generally girls). I had to break up with 2 girls i dated due to religion. They wouldnt stop talking about it no matter how much i tried to avoid it. They then tried to convert me and I had to run. Religion is the last topic I would like to discuss with anyone.. Especially with a friend.. and e-friend like yourself It leaves negative effects when there is any sort of disagreement. It is better we talk about how much I should cut these new srt springs I got so I will look cool(er) while driving my beast

 

LOL! man, I would be running away from those two also, with you brother, and I'd hope you had your track shoes on to make sure you beat me! I had one of those too, when I was 17 that I really had to say even at that tender age was a redflag. She was a strong and rigid Catholic, and I was more or less Catholic too, but her certainty made me concerned, because i just knew there would be no discussion. that way or the highway. Got on the road earlier than later. That's what this is really all about, it's about having views that completely blind oneself to whether or not this person is my friend or not. And John makes a good point about loving the person but tossing the philosophy. As you do too. As i'm trying to get across.

I will only say that as a person raised in the Christian west, if I saw that theology today start to be taken over by radical Christians who would kill other Christians because of their "lack of faith", I would be joining a militia to ensure the protection of not only me and my family, and of other Christians, as well as Jews and Muslims and tree worshipers, because I would know that these people are not right or worthy. I would be a part of doing whatever it takes to protect us from these people. That's all I'm saying. I guess after I think about it, I'm not so much a Christian, but a jesuit, meaning to me I am a Jew, who has subscribed to the teachings of the Rabbi Jesus, versus the Rabbi Moshe

 

haha, I did and never looked back. and you got good points there buddy

 

Wow. That's an interesting concept - that a human cannot possibly know right from wrong without having some god after which to model his or her behavior.

I tried to model myself after the Christian god my parents raised me with. When I attempted to make everyone bow at my knees and kiss my butt it didn't really work. I threatened to murder them if they refused, and it still didn't work so well. So, now my plan is to flood the earth and kill all of them and then we'll see who has the last laugh!

Seriously, looking through all the gods of history, I cannot think of one who'd make a good role model for any human.

 

Taking that literally, you're saying that the life and teachings of Jesus Christ are not something you want people to strive to resemble?

The fact that He loved unconditionally, never murdered, never stole, never committed adultery, never slandered, and laid down His life for those He had never even met?

You wouldn't want your children to lead such a life?

And are you suggesting that your life's story and legacy is greater than that of Christ?

WOW.

 

You have got to be "equally yoked", that is, the two of you must be of the same mindset. That is not only a Christian admonition, but darn good advice.

I have to agree. I usually avoid the topic for the very same reasons... after all, I came to this board because of a car. THAT is what we all share here - the car.

I have found that the only way to talk to someone about matters of faith is one-on-one, and only when the other party is truly interested in the topic. So, again, I usually avoid the topic.

 

This is the precise reason that my original post was created to simply explain my stance to people... not to try to beat their religious wall down.

Think about the parable of sewing seed. You've got soft ground, and concrete. I know you know where I'm going, Mark...

Of course, radmanly thinks I'm a terrorist now. Which is just hysterical.

 

You should read The God Delusion, by Richard Dawkins.
This will give you an insight into some other peoples views, you will not be struck dead or turn into a pillar of salt when you crack the cover.

 

Religion is man made and therefore imperfect.
Faith, on the other hand, is from God. It is given to help us become so.


roadster with a stick

 

As I stated before, we walk and talk the same, though we may look a little different...but, we impose our beliefs on others, and strongly defend them...because our particular faith states we must covert them to think the same...well, I think it is ok to evangelize...but, we won't make everyone believe our way, so what you do from that point, is freedom...freedom to worship, or not worship as we please...all sides are represented here, as I have athiest friends, muslim and christian friends alike, and we never discuss religion...never....why, because we already know how each of us believe and "respect that"....and in the end...the end of time, only then will we see who right....and yes, it will be too late for many...but, that is what freedom is all about....

 

Wasn't a god. It was suggested humans needed a god after which to model their lives.
Jesus, as far as anyone knows, was a human.

 

Who, may I ask, suggested it?

As to the humanity of Jesus, that was the point of his life.

roadster with a stick

 

What exactly do you think the phrase "Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit" means?

Clue: it's a trinity.

 

Dude, I worship the devil so...whatever.

 

They are traits attributed to a human. People made up a story. They needed a savior. They picked a guy. He was a cool guy. He was nice. He said good things. Nothing wrong with living your life following the wisdom provided by him - be nice to people, don't judge others, don't murder people...

For anyone who needs someone else to tell them those sorts of things in order to be able to differentiate between right and wrong, his story is as good a guide as any.

Now his dad... not such a nice guy. Demands worship. Kills people regularly, by the thousands sometimes. Picks representatives (priests) who like sex with little boys. Does nothing to protect the little boys from his perverted minions. Not someone anyone should use as a role model.

 

Ahhh... another Christian.