Yes the Viper can be quite a handful on a tight course, but "oversteer" can be a beautiful thing in the right hands.
But I agree, in most situations, especially on roads like the Dragon, I personally prefer the way my Crossfire handles.

 

I look forward to meeting you there this fall.

Sleep well my friend. I'm otta here.

roadster with a stick

 

It’s purely anecdotal, I’m afraid. Here in the UK, when you buy a car, the assumption is that you want a manual. Driving lessons are mostly in manual cars, unless you go to a driving instructor who teaches automatic. Automatic is the second choice - plan “B” if you like.

I can only go on what I see on the TV and hear from people I know in the USA. It appears to be mostly automatic - and you have to ask for a “stick shift” if you want one, with automatic being the default choice. Is this correct? Let me know if I’m wrong here.

 

Franc, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the EPA sticker on the Crossfire show higher mileage for the automatic than the stick? I think I remember that because usually it's the other way around.

 

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...1.4335589.html

a little more than 4%

 

You're not wrong. Even if you ask for a stick it isn't available on most cars here. Only sports cars may have the option and even then maybe not.

As a side note, When I was in the U.K. I drove 1,200 miles through England, Scotland, and Wales, and found the U.K. drivers to be much better drivers in general than here in the U.S. They seemed much more in tune with the driving environment. On the motorways they would stay over unless passing and were more aware that there were other drivers on the road.

I believe that drivers licenses are harder to get in Europe and are more expensive. It's just a theory of mine but maybe the drivers in Europe appreciate the driving priveledge more and are more in tune with their automobiles hence the prevalence of manual transmission's.

We have many drivers here in the U.S. that have no bussiness having a drivers license. If part of the driving test was being able to chew gum and walk at the same time, many would fail, hence the prevalence of automatic.

 

Because automatics are better suited for commuters cans and straight-line rockets?

Who's insecure?

I know of late 80's Omnis, Chargers, and Shadows running 8s, 9s and 10s. I could build a faster drag car than your SRT6 for the price of your windsheild trim and tires... so get rusting.

 

Automatic + cruise control. What the hell do I do with my feet?!?!

I have to say that manual transmission is partly a personal choice. I really like the physical process of driving, and the whole clutch/gear change routine is as important to me as steering. It’s me controlling the car, changing gear when I want to and when I need to. The clutch really helps at times for braking, getting round bends.

We have some great windy country roads here, and to be totally honest, I really can’t imagine driving around them in an automatic. The whole fun of it would be missing.

 

Sadly, I agree with Chuck65 on his take of American average driving skills.

One other point: the ease of use on a manual/clutch transmission in inversely proportional to the weight of a vehicle. Ours are heavier.

 

America has a long tradition of treating skin cancer with bandaids.

What's that? People can't drive? Why spending time educating them when you can make cars drive themselves! We make cars fool proof and wonder why our roadways are full of fools.

 

Multi Taskers that we are here in the States, the men here put the automatic in drive, set the cruise control, throw their feet up on the dashboard and trim their toenails as any red blooded American would do. The women here use the opportunity to shave their legs and armpits which explains the unshaven european look. They're too busy shifting to shave.

The use of the automatic along with cruise control may well be the cause of the increasing cases of restless leg syndrome in the U.S.

 

I believe you are right about the Crossfire milage.

Automatics have come a long way from the inefficient slush boxes of the fifties. No longer dependant on machanical and vacuum operated control systems the electronic engine management systems when integrated with the electronic control of the transmission can certainly be credited with improving both performance and fuel economy.

It has cost the auto companies millions in engineering to get to this point in the technology. Return on investment will come only with the sale of millions of units.
Perhaps that is why so many high vlome, "common" cars come only with the auto.

roadster with a stick

 

How's the traffic out in your area??

My last 2 cars were manuals, but with traffic here in NY/NJ, by the time I got home I thought my leg was going to fall off.

Surprisingly though, I still feel like I'M controlling the car with the AutoStick. I press the gas and it goes, and I press the brake and that usually works too.... Technology is amazing here in the states I guess...

 

Traffic can get bad - especially on the motorways. I've sat in my share of queues o the M25 or the M1. The benefit of working form home is that the daily commute is fairly easy. If I need to see a client, I usually do that outside of rush hour. That said, I’ve been snagged up in jams from time to time.

The Crossfire clutch is heavier than my previous cars were - and when I first got the car, my leg started going dead. I tweaked the seat position and that problem seems to have gone away.

 

I agree. Cruise control is great on long trips. especially in the minivan where the driver has nothing to do for quite a while.

I enjoy most , the control of the car using the engine for inputs both accelerating and deccelerating. Came of the highway this morning at high speed only to be confronted with a pile of cars stopped while a tourist (?) was contemplating which way to turn. Pulled the trans from 5th to 2nd and used the clutch to help with the braking. I had much more control of the steering because the front wheels were spinning relatively free while the back wheels dramatically slowed down my progress in way I controlled.

With the stick, antilock brakes are a non sequetor as you can use the clutch and brake pedals to maintain wheel rotation and yet apply maximum braking. You can adjust to the conditions not depend on the ABS brake system operating inside a preprogramed set of parameters.

Not easily accomplished with the average automatic but available on just about any manual drive vehicle.

roadster with a stick

 

Cruise control ? Best thing since popcorn, especially since driving from Orange to El Paso Texas is basically a day and a half trip !

Just my Dos Centavos

 

Agreed! But only useful because of the Interstate system. Except for the western states, two lane roads are hard to endure with the cruise on. It's more work to change speed with the control on than off, even with push button controls located on the steering wheel.

My wifes minivan has radio controls on the back of the steering wheel and cruise controls on the front. With cushy leather seats, AC and a long stretch of I35 in front of you, there isn't much difference between driving and playing a video game.


Except there is no "reset button" when you crash.

roadster with a stick

 

You have a point, automatics have gotten better, but automatics are still not as efficient at power transfer as manuals, and don't let those EPA numbers fool you. The manufacturers will sometimes use more aggressive gear ratios (usually on the axle) for the manual version, and a more highway-friendly ratio for the automatics. This accomplishes a few things:

- It makes the manual "feel" much faster than the automatic
- It gives the automatic better fuel economy, at the expense of that "kick".
- It also gives people the impression that automatic is equal to, if not better than, manuals in fuel efficiency (to counter the ingrained beliefs of an older generation that was raised in an era where automatics were always seen as inferior mileage-wise, as well as in other aspects)

The manufacturers seem to want to ween the general public off automatics, and I've heard that while automatics are still not prevalent in Europe, the numbers are rising quickly.

 

I hadn't thought of that. But should have.

I know from past experience that the auto mfgs often engineer their vehicles to pass the tests not actually perform better. This is especially true of safety crash tests.

Remember Lee Iacoca's comment, "all this over a little door beam?"

Another issue about auto vrs manual. The EPA requires "donation" of vehicles for milage testing. therefore it may not be economically feasable or reasonable for someone like Benz to provide cars (and dealer support for cars) that will have limited sales in the U.S.

So why would they provide a 300 SEL with a 140HP 6 coupled to a manual shift? Americans barely purchased the automatic version of the 6 yet were quite happy to go for the gas guzzling 228HP V/8. (The european version went to 330 HP, 16 miles to the gallon but an awesome ride for a 4,600 lb sedan).



roadster with a stick

 

I agree, the automatic shouldn't get better milage than the stick because the stick is a direct drive system when it is cruising in 6th. gear. You can't get more efficient than that.

It has to be that the stick and automatic have different final drive ratio's. Does anyone have those numbers? It would be interesting to compare them.

The owners manual lists the stick in 6th. at 0.838 and the automatic in 5th. gear as 0.833.

I don't know what those numbers mean. I'm used to seeing rear end ratio like 4.11:1 and 3.80:1 etc. where the higher the number the higher the rpm will be at a given speed and the poorer the gas milage but it will give better acceleration performance.

What is the difference in RPM @ 60 MPH with the stick in 6th. , and @ 60MPH with the automatic in 5th? I think the automatic would be turning less RPM which would account for the higher mileage numbers.