Well, I suppose a bad day at the track is better than no day, but my day at the track was a bit too eventful.

My latest addition to my SRT6 was new MIchelin Pro Sport Cups at a tune of $1500.00. Yes, I know I must be nuts, but I was looking for really good sticking to the track power.

Anyway, I drove at Putnam Park today in a Speed 100 Lapping Day. I was black flagged twice for spinning off the track. Never in my days on the track have I even run off, so this was entirely new to me. My first really bad spin in turn 4 almost ended in a terrible accident, but the other drivers did a great job avoiding me. I sorta had a "Jesus take the wheel" moment as I couldn't control the spin. Then later on, I spun out at turn 9. So, I ended my day with that. Come to find out, I had too much air in the Sport Cups, unbeknownst to me. These tires need less air than what usual tires need. So I learned a big lesson. I'm hoping I'll be allowed back on the track in the future.

So, how was your day?

 

Jane,
Not good news at all but at least you didn't destroy the car or become injured.
I thought all these cars had a bunch of technology built in so this is nearly impossible to do.

 

Hey there Gary!

Yeah, you'd think but somewhere in the owner's manual it states something to the effect of "but cannot defeat the laws of physics" so all of our traction control, electronic brake distribution, gee-whiz gadgets evidently can't defeat slippery, over-inflated tires.

 

sounds like you need more practice, maybe at a slower speed? these cars are short wheelbase, rwd and like to spin, it's not your grandmas FWD buick

I suggest low speed drifting around corners to get the feel for the car and find out at what speeds you slide out and how to recover from going sideways, maybe take an evasive drivers training course.

Better hit the books before you hit the track, finish your homework!

 

I'm glad you're OK. I look forward to meeting you at the tail of the dragon.

 

Sorry to hear that Jane, you must have been pretty embarassed. Next time make sure you do a tech inspection first with an instructor at the track and have him look at everything on your car. They will point out things that you haven't thought of, even things like seating position, mirrors, etc.

How high was your tire pressure anyways?

Also remember to warm up those DOT-R's before you start to get really crazy on the track. Once you get your tire pressure down, people often say "one lap" is all it takes, but without a pyrometer, they are just guessing.

 

Chalk it up as a good learning experience. Given enough seat time, everyone at one point will spin out. At least now you know how it feels and what to do when you do spin out. Same thing when someone in front of you spins out, that's just as scary trying to avoid them. i've been taught to aim for the spin which worked out a couple of times.

I wouldn't say I've had a "Jesus take the wheel" moments but had plenty of "oh ****" moments.. haha... good thing i don't have videos of them or else they would be a constant reminder and will just work on my nerves.

dont you have a dedicated srt6 for racing anyway? you should get a roll cage, fire suppression, etc. for it. I wish i could put a roll cage on my roadster. anyway, have fun and stay safe...

 

Thanks guys for all the advice.

I've had plenty of "slow" time at the track; car was teched and trust me, the tech guys do not know everything there is to know about every car.
Only problem was that instead of starting out at 26 pounds of air, I started at 32-34 and then would go up to 36-37-coming off the track. After talking with a colleague of mine who only uses the sport cups, I discovered that they were overinflated. They came inflated to that pressure, so I thought that is where they should be. It makes sense, though, that the lower the pressure, the better the contact and traction.

I did turn off the traction control on the car. On this track, most the time, I feel the back slide a bit or it might be called subtle drifting, which I'm comfortable with. That is actually good because that is how tires get their traction. However, with these tires, when the go, they go without warning.

You're right, SRT6_crossfire, this is definitely experience and I'm glad I survived. And you are so right that this will help me in the future. It was bound to happen. I wasn't really embarrased, just pissed off. I've just got to get my emotional mojo back as I had a couple of pucker moments. Cars were going off all over, yesterday, so I wasn't the only one, but gee, I just never had that kind of trouble. I may have been getting greater speeds than I had before and then the tires wouldn't hold.

Doing my "homework" is very difficult with this car as the company doesn't support racing like Mazda does for the "specs" etc. Every one, including racers and mechanics, have an opinion and lots of advice, but much of the time, it is based on their cars, not the Crossfire. So, who do you listed to. I have a racing mechanic and a Crossfire mechanic, and I try to listen to them, but they don't always know either. Not many forum people do closed track racing. Drag racing seems more popular. Having the money and time to order and try new things takes time. Racing modifications take time and require testing with each new mod. Definitely, in hindsite, I should have asked about inflation pressures from experienced users.

So, I continue to learn and be humbled. Racers always need to be reminded that this sport is not without great risk and it could happen to you. All the little gadgets won't protect us from external factors and human factors involved in racing.

Thanks for your advice

 

you'll be okay... i've had one off-roading incident that I swore i'm done with road racing.. but just went back took it slow and built enough confidence to not even think what's happened.

the real gadget that i want is a rollcage. not having one is what's really slowing me down. I somehow just don't trust the people that spec'd the roadster's roll hoops as functional. I don't necessarily want to be the first one to find out that they're not. :-)

 

First off, I'm glad you and your vehicle were unharmed. That shaky feeling WILL go away, but it will serve as a good warning for you.

One thing I was told by several instructors at my NASA events was that race tires don't make the warning noises that race tires do and race tires will just 'let go' without much if any warning. You just found this out the hard way.

I would recommend you keep the TC on for a bit while finding the 'limits' of these tires. The car can recover WAY faster than you and you will get a feel for where the limits are while still retaining that "invisible hand" taking control when things start to go wrong.

Work up to your speeds slowly witht the TC on, you can feel it correct for you. When you are comfortable with the rythm, switch the TC back off and then work back up to that same rythm slowly and you should be able to feel the tires reaching their limits. You may even spin again, but I would recommend that you try "pushing it" when you are in a pretty clear spot, if that's possible.

When I was clear front and back for at least 4 or 5 car lengths, that's when I would start to push hard and see what the car would do with the TC on. I still need lots of practice and technique before I run with the TC off. This was also the recommendation of the head instructor, "Leave your computers on...", until we reached a higher level of the HPDE groups. I'm still in group two... when I feel I'm ready for three, I might just try a few sessions with the TC off before I move up.

Hope that helps... keep at it! Cheers!

 

Thanks, MMZ.

I was forwarned about how the tires are quiet and give no warning. I will be going back to the TC, definitely.

I'm still training with instructors, and if fact, had an instructor in the car with me on the bad 4th turn. Although, I do better most of the time without one so I can focus on turns, drive my line and deal with traffic appropriately.

As I continue to analyze my day at the track, I was starting to carry more speed in the turns and had tires that were "soapy" because of overinflation setting me up for potential spins on a hot track. My responsibility was that I did not handle the bad spin well and will now need to practice spinning out. My instructor wants me to go work out at a painted go cart track so I can spin my brains out. Hindsite, should have left the TC on. I was assigned to the highest level of class (there were three classes,) but I don't know if that would have slowed me down any in the second class.

This experience will certainly help me in the long run, when I can look back. I get so many opinions, the majority being that I need a different car so I can go faster, which always breaks my heart. Yet, they remind me that starting out with a slower car makes you a better driver. I just want to drive the Crossfire with the windows down and the air conditioner on and have fun. It's now up to me to bring the fun back as I continue to develop my skills as a driver. There is a certain point in racing where the fun stops, and I don't want to get there.

 

Can wait to visit you and your track Jane...having put police cars through their paces just up the road @ Plainfield...I now want to throw the XF around to see what it can do...but, I need new skins for the road and track combination, just haven't found what I want...any suggestions?? Glad you and car are fine, egos are always repairable if they aren't over-inflated too...still working on meet...looks like last Sat in July...keep racin' Jane....Doc

 

Runing the Michelin's that came on the car, the tech guys at NASA always warned me to let them warm up....which I usually did. But at Firebird, with dirty tires (pits were in gravel for this day) that were also cold, I turned off TC and promptly spun BEFORE I GOT TO THE FIRST CORNER !!! Oh yeah, that looks good. Fortunately my only spin that day.......

 

May I suggest you purchase the G-tech Pro RR g-meter for auto-X, mount it up on your dash, and run it in road race mode. it has a circular G-Gmeter that was developed many years ago, I believe by road racing legend and AMX driver Mark Donohue, RIP.
it allows you to find the edge of the envelope of your cars handling. so while your out there on the track working on your times just keep the gauges pinned to the maximum limit, they are cheap probably $299 http://www.gtechpro.com/rr.html#

 

Getting the LSD from phantom grip might be a better cure for your traction. I haven't tried it myself but I think WALDIG has one and he road race???? Given the the other info he's posted in this forum, i'm sure he's feedback on the LSD will be useful.

 

I'd stick with the OEM PS2's...

 

Doc: I agree, stick with PS2s for your first time at Putnam. Start with high performance drivers ed at Putnam with the Porsche car clubs out of Indy or Ky. The Indy group has great class room instruction and always good instructors if you can get in. Last time I tried, I couldn't get in. They put on a high class weekend. Put on racing pads if you can, like Porterfields and put in Motul 600 brake fluid. Everytime I was at Putnam, I burned up my brakes, but no more. My brakes are doing great now. Good luck and look forward to meeting you and having another Crossfire on the track. That would freak them out all the more.

 

definety looking into brakes, been talking w/ dealer to change out rotors, metal lines, fluid etc...just need new skins...prolly should finish out the old ones on the track...I will get the info for the clubs from you in July when we meet...should put the finishing touch on our meet and greet by end of wk...as for the track, I grew up on 2 wheels racing, did a yr of hobby stock, tried to get into sprints, no sponsor, no ride...it was always about money, not talent back then, prolly still is. This time it is for fun for me...thanks to all for the info...I really don't have a problem w/ the PS2's...maybe the guys at the academy will let me do EVOC w/ the XF...see ya soon....

 

Post some pictures of your next run on the track.

Oh yeah the phantom grip is a good idea, they cost $400, and it's a drop in part, no need to re-adjust the pinion to ring clearance, you'll be on the road in no time and your traction will be outta sight.

 

dag gonnit Max, rt when I was going to bed...where's the thread on the phantom grip? I will look it up while I'm duty tomorrow...is this like limited slip? positive track? what, I just gotta know now...