I plan on going to the Dragon in less than a week and wanna know what I should do with the air pressure in my tires. I have the Michelin "Sport" tires and the stock pressure is 33 front and 35 rear, so do I need to pump it up a bit. The road has a lot of tight, technical turns (318 in 11 miles) and the road I take to get to it has large, sweeping turns and those are also alot of fun. So what do I do to maximize the tires performance. I really only want those with alot of experience to answer this as its the first time I've been down there w/ a RWD car, thanks in advance!

 

Anyone gotta a tip on this?

 

Well the first question I have to ask is, are you running the entire track or a SOLO event? The second question is, have you done any suspension mods ? Next question what are the ambient temps. in your area this time of year?

I'll be more than happy to help you with your set-up, but every condition and event has many variables. That being said, I can only give you generalities without knowing the details...

If you are just running a SCCA Solo event you will want to inflate your tires a bit more than if you were running full laps on the track. The short distance of a SOLO event will not let your tires heat to temp, so the pressures will not increase to the optimum range. I would start somewhere like 38 / 42 for SOLO...

The stock suspension is pretty soft and you'll experience a bit of understeer in corners, but if you're just doing cones you'll be out of the turn before you start pushing out. Make sure you turn that damned ESP off before you make any runs...

If you're doing full track laps, you can start with a lower pressure because your tires will heat and pressure increase. Start with 32 / 38... Then if you are experiencing understeer or oversteer adjust your front / rear pressure accordingly between runs. get yourself a good PSI gauge and take the PSI before your run, then immediately after the run. This will let you know what the changes are during your event. A good rule of thumb is that for every 10 degrees of heat your tire will increase PSI by 1 lb... Your front tires will inherently heat a bit more due to the fact that you're going to be pushing them alot with the stock suspension set-up.

I'm sorry I can't tell you what specific PSI, because there really isn't a formula that fits all conditions and track environments... Have fun, be safe and wave the flag for us Crossfire owners. Nice to see someone else finally...

 

Your the guy I knew would chime in, but this isn't a road course, its a public road in Tenn./N.C. I for one am not going down there to do anything waaaaaay above the law, but I'm going to enjoy my car though. Its going to be somewhere in the 60's if I had to guess, but in the higher elevations, it could be in the 50's. My suspension is all stock and when you say turn off the ESP, do you mean just turn off the T/C?

 

AERO re: The Dragon

I looked it up on the internet last night... Looks like a terrific drive, wish I could join you... We have quite a few canyon roads like that in So. Cal. that we used to use for testing and tuning, but now we have had a bunch of kids racing through them and crashing, so the cops have virtually shut down most of them...

I wrote the response before I looked at the Dragon, now I know... You'll be fine with your set-up 35/40... tires will come to temp in about 2 miles. And yes, I was talking about the traction control and meant to write ETC, but now that I see where you're driving, it won't make much difference unless you're really haulin' as* on that road... Not a good idea with oncoming traffic...

Have fun, take pictures, be safe!!!

 

Double check he standard tire pressure setting. The manual and sticker on the car shows 32 front 33 rear.

Have fun on the Dragon.

 

Thanks alot guys, I really appreciate the help. I'm going to try it with and without the T/C on. I wasn't sure if turning that off eliminated everything, but I'm sure there's still something on in there incase you get out of control, which I don't intend on doing. This will be my 3rd trip down there and its been fun everytime. Too bad about the kids messing it up for you there in So Cal, maybe you need to come on out to the Dragon sometime, although you have a "bit" more of a 590 mile drive one way like I have. I will tell you this, before I turn 40 (in less than 5 years now) I'm going to do a cross country drive, so when I do this, I'll need to check out those roads you speak of. Take care everyone!

 

I guess... 32/33 gives a softer ride... a couple of PSI is not going to give him much notice either way... I would suggest as mentioned earlier 35/40 especially with the 50 degree weather he's going to encounter... But really it won't matter much since he's taking a nice spirited cruise...

HAVE FUN, SEND PICTURES, BE SAFE!

 

You could do a runs on 32/33, then one on 35/40 (sounds way to high), each with TC on and off, lets see that's 44 miles and 1200+ turns. While your busy could you check how different fuels perform, perhaps you better take some spare tires. Looks a great road - would love to be there.

Have fun.

 

Malcb, i was referring to heated temps when I said 35/40. It's usually easier when running a long (11 mile) road to pull over and adjust your tires down if you're getting too much over or understeer, than it is to pull your cigarette lighter pump from the trunk and inflate more... And I assumed that he would check his tire pressure when he arrived at the beginning of the Dragon, which would be after he'd driven there for god knows how many miles. Had I told him to do 32/33 on hot tires he'd be in big trouble.

I run Michelin Cup Competition tires on road courses and I already know to start each event with cold pressure of 32/35. And when checked with a pyrometer and PSI gauge after a 20 minute event, my tires are usually at 190 +/- degrees (depending on the time of year) and 36/39 +/- PSI. I do this check immediately after I arrive in the paddock area.

Sorry if you thought I was recommending cold pressure, but again, I knew he would be driving to the area and assumed he would check the pressure right before heading into the mountains. That being said, 35/40 on hot tires is pretty much where you want to be with a stock suspension set-up with general purpose tires on some twisty canyon roads.

Thanks for chiming in, I would have hated to hear that he assumed a 35/40 cold PSI...

 

First off I'd like to say thanks for the tire pressure advice. After running the Dragon I checked the tires and they were at 45 in the rear and 42 in the front. I started off the trip with 37/40. As far as the Dragon Run is concerned the car kicked serious as*! I had one guy behind me in an S2000 ask me if the car was modded because of how it was going around the tight turns. I said the only thing modded on the car is the muffler, that's it. He was pretty surprised. I will say this though, I didn't turn off the T/C because it was doing such a great job and also because it was a public road. I will say this though, had I turned it off, i think I may have spun out of alot of the turns because I was really hard on the car, but in a good way, a way people don't get to see a Crossfire! The outside of the tires felt like sandpaper, cool! The car did fishtail once and I liked that, but the T/C did its job. I have a greater appreciation for the Crossfire now, but I expected it to do well, but not that well. There's going to be pics as soon as I find out what's wrong with clubphoto.

 

Good to hear you enjoyed the run - I am truly jealous (and a little disappointed that you didn't do four runs in the interests of research).


Also nice to hear a few more car fans have been impressed by a Crossfire.

 

I probably would've done 4 runs, but I got there Thursday and ran it that day, Friday and Saturday. Went home on Sunday. I put 1,849 miles on the Crossfire and it never complained once, awesome experience for sure. I will say this though, the edges of the tires felt like sandpaper and the T/C is my best friend down there now, I will always use his services!

 

T/C ETC, - I have mixed feelings. Haven't had it operate much in the dry - comes on more in the wet.

Actually reading the user manual there seem to be two systems. A traction control the works to stop wheel spin and some sort of electronic stability program (ESP).

The ESP is strange, I have only really noticed it once, in dry conditions, on a tight roundabout, going clockwise, when the back drifted out and just as I though that's fun and started to steer into it and leave the roundabout the back left wheel seemed to get held by the brake, all drive went to the rhs and I was almost redirected by the car with a snap, drivers limited skills redundant.

Remember HDDP making a similar point regarding track use.

Sorry to stray from the thread heading but wondered if anyone can elaborate on how the systems work, particularly is steering angle considered and what is actually switched off by the T/C switch.

 

I felt the pull from the rear-end and watched the ESP ETC light start flashing... I immediately felt the car slow, like someone was holding me back and driving me nearly straight instead of my intended track... Thinking that something was wrong with the car, I returned to the paddock and jumped on my laptop to see what that ESP ETC (whatever) light meant...

Well we all now know what it means... But we don't all necessarily know how it does it... And what kinds of problems it can cause if you clearly intend to power slide the car thru a corner...

I have since found out that it applies the brakes to prevent an over steer spin-out. However, it works so well, that it is a hindrance and possible safety issue if you want to slide the car thru a corner...

I have also found out that even though you turn the ESP ETC (whatever) switch off, it will still engage during extreme traction loss from the rears... I think this is a great feature for the daily driver, but not those who compete in the car... I can feel a dramatic loss of speed when apexing a turn and having that little bugger kick-in...

After this weekends race in Nevada, I'm going to see if there is some sort of way to disable the nasty thing with the DRBIII, without affecting the ABS... Will keep you all posted...

 

So turning off the TC switch doesn't really turn it off? I was able to gain (or lose) 4 seconds with the TC off but I knocked over two cones on a slalom. Just gotta practice, I guess.

Hey HDDP, are your Michelin Cup Competition tires always on or do you have another set? Are those good for daily driving? I was thinking about tires but I didn't want to go through the trouble of getting another set of rims. I also wanted to stay in DS. I also remember that you had Toyos at one point (or was it Nittos?). Were those any good?

 

Pull the (a) fuse somewhere?

 

You can stay in DS as long as the you are using OEM wheel size and offset (+/- 1/4")
Sport Cups are probably the best "R" tires that you can drive on the street too. I have seen people use Nitto R2 (not in crossfire sizes) and Nitto Drag Radials... Dunno about the new Nitto "R" tire, NT01...(just checked...they are not available in 19s yet...as a matter of fact...not many 19s in "R" compound...).

 

Practice makes perfect as they say... Yeah, the TC will still activate even when turned off. I've noticed it on quite a few occasions at the track. I'll just catch a glimpse of the light coming on when I really get loose in a turn.

As far as the Michelin Cups I have them on a different set of wheels. They're really slippery in any sort of water. Even though we don't get much rain here in So. Cal.
I wouldn't want to chance it... Anyway I usually burn through a set per weekend event.

As far as the Toyo S1-R's, they sucked IMO. The sidewall was way too soft for track use. If you want a good visual example take a look in my gallery at the photo of me at Willow Springs with a white BMW behind me. Look at the front tires and you'll see the entire sidewall rolling over, almost off the rim... And I had increased tire pressure in the fronts to 45 psi because my spotter had told me the tires were scrubbing really hard during the previous event.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think unless you have R rated tires, you'll still be in DS, instead of DS Modified. I'm glad to see that someone else is campaigning the car in SCCA or non-sanctioned events.

Good luck next season...

 

I can only speak for autox. The rules for DS is:

ANY tires (R or not) as long as it is DOT rated (this means pure racing slicks is a no no) that will fit on stock OEM size (or OEM optional size) rim is allowed. You can get after market wheels, but they have to be OEM size and OEM offset (+/- 1/4" allowance on the offset). If you use non oem size rims (e.g. 18" F/ 18" R) then you are moved to Street Prepared. Based on this rule, I think the only sticky tire avail is the sport cups...and yes, in standing water, they will be slippery, cuz they only have 6/32 tread depth when new...

I autox'd the crossfire last year, but our region has a [D stock street tire] class ...so I was not competing against R tires...but I am autoxing a diff car this year...