Guys Ive been researching a Vortech installation on the X fire. Chips, exhaust and K&N's will always be a band aid fix for decent HP and torque improvements. Lets see $600 for chip, $70 for K&N's, $650 for a Borla (too bloody pricey for a muffler, a resonator and some s/s tubing IMHO).....thats around $1300. Get onto www.vortech.com and check out prices for a blower upgrade for killer power increases.

Vortech makes a nice blower sized for our application. Also runs heaps quieter than the normal centrifugal set up.....much less whine, very quiet. It also should fit well in our engine bay....we have the room.

I believe our engine would stand up quite well to the rigours of a centrifugal supercharger. Upgrades required for our rides would be a Bosch motorsport fuel pump (or an aftermarket one) , a boost referenced regulator to keep up the fuel demand, possibly higher flow injectors (not sure), and maybe a reduction in compression....supposed to be 10.00:1, but effective comp ratio will be around 9.00:1 because of the aluminium heads/block. Intercooling will allow more boost/power/safety but from what I've seen around 7-8 psi should be OK. Id prefer to swap out the std ECU, and run a programmable one that can be set up via a laptop on a chassis dyno under load, that way a margin of safety can be dialled in on the fuel side to prevent detonation. Ignition system should be sufficient.

The stand alone replacement, programmable ECU's are made here in Melbourne, Australia (as are MoTec) by www.autronic.com.au check out their web site its comprehensive.

Ive done some research into the centrifugal blower, there is a Vortech kit available for the Nissan 350Z that ups the output to 415HP/380ft/lbs of torque - stout numbers indeed. Id love to have that kind of performance in the XF on a daily basis, in comfort AND style. What more could you want??

Im willing to bet Vortech will come out with a supercharger kit for our cars sooner or later.....heres hoping. Maybe we could email then as a group and see what they say?

What do you guys think....

BTW....ive played with these before......u can make killer power, safely.

XFYRED

 

Oops....make that www.autronic.com

 

Nissan also will put it on with warrenty !

 

Youre kidding !! Nissan will accept the blower install, all the associated mods and not void the warranty? How does that work ?

 

I thought it was the Stillen unit that Nissan would cover? Maybe it's both?

 

xfryed,

It would be nice to see 415 hp, are people actually putting 15 psi to these engines?

I'm putting 10 pounds of boost to my vette stock short block getting about 535 hp out of it.

I have been doing a bit of research as well I think we have both discussed the substantioal savings of going with a certrifugal. Actually Vortech is very close to Dan and I...

Mo

 

OK XFyred: It would be great if you would just install the stuff and then let me know what worked and what didn't work... How about that ?

 

Mo, I dont think you'd need 15psi to achive those HP/torque figures I mentioned. The 350Z combo does it with about 8 psi, so I figure a comparable boost level on our V6 should be enough. Tell me a little bit about your Vette - Im interested in your spex, especially the setup & ECU side of things ??

HDDP....I sure hope I can do this and if the appropriate kit is made available, I WILL be the first (at least down here) to get my hands on it !! Correct me if Im wrong, but if you're being sarcastic, thats ok, to each their own !!!

Remember guys, ANYTHING we buy from the USA is subject to lofty import duty, freight charges, taxes and exchange rate losses.....compared to us, you guys have it easy. We are a pretty hardcore bunch of gearheads Down Under; we have to be otherwise we'd have given it away ages ago, so the commitment level is high. And Ive been building cars for some time. I just came in from the garage after assembling my blown Flathead Ford V8 shortblock, which is going into my other ride, a 1932 Ford 3W coupe.

If this blower kit is made available, I will get it and post detail on the installation and results. I will be emailing Vortech about what they have planned (if anything) for the Crossfire.

XFYRED

 

xfyred,

I was looking at it from some of the rule of thumb calulations.

If you are going from 215 to 415 415/215 = 1.93 which is 14.7 * 1.93 = 28.37

28.37 - 14.7= 13.67 pounds of boost roughly.

vortech states that a LT1 ( sorry these are figure I have worked with forthe past 3 years)

stock LT1 = 300 hp they advertise 6-8 pounds of boost depending on where you run to redline...

300 + 6 pounds of boost =

14.7+ 6= 20.7 / 14.7 = 1.408 pressure ratio

so then take that pressure ratio and multiply it by the BHP 300* 1.408 = 422 HP

Thus my thoughts were that more realistically

215 *1.54 ( 8 pounds of boost) = would net around 332

I agree anything is possible... you would probably also need to factor in a water alcohol injection system. It added almost 50 hp to my Corvette alone keeping the intake temps to a reasonable level. Also you would need a means of controlling the timing, I haven't looked THAT deep into it but there is probably some sort of BTM system to pull back the timing a bit at the higher end. Although dropping about 4 steps colder on plugs and water injection you may not need to do so...

My website is : www.ndneyes.com/mo

I use a program called LT1 edit to modifiy the fuel and the timing along with an MSD BTM which can pull up to 15 degrees of timng ( heaven forbid) for the most part I only need to pull about 1 degree per pound of boost in the summer where here it gets 106 degrees in the day. I just recently added an alcohol / water injection system that has flat woke up this car! I'm using a stock block no cam and it is running 10.5 :1 compression. I'm pulling 10 pounds of boost at 6000 RPM and have been seeing about an average of 535 horse. 0-60 in 4.4 seconds with two people in the car. I supliment the fuel with a in tank bosch high output fuel pump and a T-Rex inline fuel pump to give me a possible 50 lbs of fuel at up to 100 psi. I use a Carroll super charging Superpumper TM that modulated the fuel to the amount of boost so that I can run lower fuel pressure on the normal street driving and when racing can push up the fuel pressure when under boost. I'm feeding it with 36 pound injectors and the fuel pressure is about 75 pounds to give me a 12.5 :1 AFR basicaly from 2000 to 6000 rpm.

If you have more questions feel free to as...

Mo

 

Hey Mo....thanx for the info...sounds like you have a very nice, strong Vette. Ever had it at the track? What kinda ET's and MPH did u get ? MPH will accurately reflect your weight shifted HP.

So you havent changed the ECU at all - just added a another Hi perf fuel pump and bigger injectors ....and with 10.5:1 comp too ? Hmmm.....

Are you running an air to air intercooler with the water/alcohol injection? I agree, keeping intake temps down is crucial to getting great HP with no detonation. Good to see you have adjustable fuel pressure. I was thinking of running an rising rate fuel press regulator; this will alow fuel pressure to rise as boost rises. The ratios can be altered to suyit your combo. I know some digital aftermarket igns (MSD) will drag timing out of the ignition under full boost/load to as RPM rises to prevent detonation.

Keep in mind that boost gauges dont always paint the accurate picture - engines will show different boost levels in the intake depending on cam design, overlap, heat, intake runner design etc. So 10 psi isnt always 10 psi if you know what i mean.

Hopefully Vortech will come up with something that can be a true bolt on and then can be tweaked from there....

Good luck with your Vette and thanx for the feedback !!

XFYRED

 

Ooops...rereading your post....

Youve piggy backed the std ECU with a modded LT1 program. Did that mean u just removed the chip and replaced with the modded part which gave you a different fuel/timing curve?

Thanx....

 

Hi Xfyred,

Thank you, I'm using MSD for the ignition, and the rise rate fuel pump system is made by Blowerworks, www.carrollsupercharging.com .

I'm pulling a true 10 pounds of boost.... not just 10 psig... Yes I know what you mean

On the Vette ECM tracks the Hi side of the A/C so what we do is take the 2 bar map which we measure the voltage output vs. the boost (pressure) into the MAP we connect that output of the MAP to the hi pressure sensor on the hi side of the A/C pressure and we can then track it with the data logging software...

Yes I have had to reprogram the computer on the car, primarily for fuel, trans shifts and timing. I tried an air / air intercooler and it really didn't help, so I switched to the water / alky injection system again from Blowerworks... what a tremendous difference! So I'm only running water injection at this point.

I run a logging program called Autotap. thake the car out for a run look at the spark knock timing , and O2 sensors. The computer on the car has a flash memory so I just reflash the computer once I make a change. (I'm really surprised MERC's aren't that way...)

Best ET 12.090 @ 117 mph
Best regards,

Mo

 

I assume you fellows already know about Kleemanns superchargerfor the Crossfire with 7lbs. to up the hp to 330 before thier ECU worth about another 20 hp and ups the rpm limit 300. (it costs $1,000.) They will also do installations. Cost is $9,500 plus instalation $1,300. No internal modifications to the engine. You will want to change the oil at about the 5,000 mile mark and your mileage drops by 2-3 miles.
Would anyone know if the transmission, clutch and rear end can handle the extra horses?
Great little car! Having a real blast driven it.
PS: It is OK in the snow. Go figure!!

 

Hi Bob...yes, I have visited the Kleemann website. IMHO, the 330HP option is very pricey. Kleemann uses a Lysholm, screw type blower (made in Sweden I think) that is efficient, but absorbs heat from the engine itself as it mounts in the 3.2's valley. Altering boost is not that easy with this type of blower.

Ive checked what the prices are for a Vortech V2 SQ centrifugal blower, boost relief valve, add to that owner fabbed intake pumbing, mounting brackets, a custom made intercooler & mounting, AND perhaps the Kleemann modified ECU and I'll still have mucho dinero left compared to the 10K Kleemann is asking. Plus, I enjoy doing the work like MO said.

I already have a killer Aeromotive pump and boost referenced fuel reg for this application.

the best thing about the Vortech is, if you want to return the car back to STD, its not difficult to do and you get to keep the bolt on hop up bits for your next ride.

For me to get the parts from Kleemann in Germany, pay to ship it over here, pay the import duty, tax, GST, etc etc...Ill be up for more like 15K + .......ouch.

XFYRED

 

Well said Xfryed, that is my point exactly... I'm not knocking them, I enjoy the fabrication, conseption and the "birthing" ... ACK it sounds like a pregnancy!

Mo

 

XFYRED:
Thank you for the info. on the Kleemann superchargers. Could you pass on any information in the future about the unit that you are working on and how you like the end result! I will not be doing anything for a little while, so I would appreciate your feed back. I know my way around small block Chevys but superchargers are a bit of a mystery.
By the way, can the trans, clutch and rear end handle the hp? I don't know of anyone who has supercharged the 6 speed.
Take care
Bob

 

Thanx Mo, thats what I enjoy doing. Bob thats gonna be the big question....can the std drivetrain ahdle the power. I think the answer to that is probably no. Were talking a big jump in Hp and torque - and its torque that will lunch the trans/rear end in time, esp if you drive HARD.

IMO a bit more research will be required before I take the plunge. My problem is gonna be being without the car for an extended period of time.

Bob...Ill pass on what i learn on the forum.

XFYRED