Over the last few days, my XFire has been taking longer and longer to start. It cranks and cranks and cranks and I usually have to try to start it 2 or 3 times before it'll catch. It will start and drives OK at lower RPM but when I noticed that it bogs down a little bit above 3000 RPM.

I checked the codes and got a P0410 and P174 which indicates it's got an air leak and running lean. I checked under the hood and did find a vacuum line that came off so I reconnected it but the problem continued.

I also noticed that it's running +20-25% fuel trim and the computer pulled timing back 15-20 degrees.

If I turn the key on but don't start the car and do this 2 or 3 times, it starts up pretty quickly.

So, does this sound like a fuel pump going out if it takes a few tries to build up enough fuel pressure to start?

 

I would buy or borrow a fuel pressure gauge. Mine is from Sears and was very reasonably priced. Yes it sounds like a fuel pump problem, but could be other things. Eliminate the obvious first.

James

 

Search with the word "Cranking" here on the forum and find this subject had been discussed before.
turns over but trouble starting
Long Cranking problem I've had...

Just had to have my fuel pump replaced recently with the same symptoms but no codes.
Needswings (Rob) and rcompart (Rudy) did it !!!

 

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

Just to clarify things, I can still start the car. I found that when I turn the key to the "ON" position, but don't start it, I can hear the fuel pump turn on. If I cycle the key to the "ON" position a couple of times and then start it, it still cranks a bit longer than usual (3-4 sec) and then fires up.

If I turn the car off and let it sit for a few min, it's hard to start it back up but if I turn the car off and try to start it right back up, it doesn't have any problems.

I'm now starting to think it's the fuel check valve that keeps pressure in the lines.

I'll pick up a fuel pressure gauge and test it this weekend.

 

The fuel pump has a "check valve" and the fuel filter has a "regulator"
if either of these are failing to work correctly this will cause the fuel in the fuel line to drain back from the engine fuel rail and cause the car to crank longer than usual.
Mine did this for a week and eventually the fuel pump failed.
I had a new fuel filter already.

 

Check valvein the regulator is not holding the rail pressure, need to get another filter/regulator and some screw type hose clamps to finish it all up. Enjoy Woody.

 

I just replaced the fuel filter about 2-3k miles ago. That's what leads me to believe it's the check valve in the pump.

 

I did a lot of searching and saw many threads complaining of similar results which led me to believe it was the check valve in the fuel pump. I replaced the pump but it didn't solve anything.

Having already changed out the fuel filter, injectors, and spark plugs within the last year, I didn't really have any other ideas so I replaced the original battery (now 7 yrs old!).

After connecting the new battery, I tried to start the car and it clicked once and all the lights in the car went out. I put the old battery in, which had been providing a good charge, and I still hear a loud click but it won't start.

I put the old battery on a trickle charger to make sure it was fully charged and now it makes several loud clicks and the lights in the car flicker when I try to start the car, but it won't start at all.

It sounds like two separate problems now. I checked the RCM but it looked OK. I may try to resolder the pins anyway just to double check. What's the deal with the MSH mod? Is this really necessary when repairing the RCM?

Other than that, I'm completely out of ideas. I've searched the forum high and low for other ideas and I haven't come up with anything. At this point, I'm determined to fix the car myself, but I honestly can't figure out what's wrong.

 

Its sounds like connection problem. Did you clean inside the battery terminals before connecting on the new battery?

 

Yes, I thoroughly cleaned both connectors.

I'm wondering if maybe the starter gave out. I can hear clicks now but the engine doesn't actually turn over.

 

Check wires and connections to the starter itself. Sounds like you aren't getting a ground. But that would only solve the starting problem, not the cranking problem... No crank, no power, and the RCM can be a problem. Not starting right away while cranking, is a fuel problem usually. Whether fuel pump, regulator, throttle body, etc... You do have more than one problem now...but, leave the new battery in...the old one is on it's last days...good luck

 

I can stop by and try to help, PM me.

 

After letting the car sit for a few weeks, I went out to the garage to try and tackle the problem again. I figured I'd put the key in the ignition and try to start it.

A quick turn of the key and it started up just fine. In neutral, idles find and but stumbles a bit between 1500-2500RPM and sounds like it's backfiring. I've given up trying to fix this myself and I'm taking it to my local German independent shop so they can fix it. I just don't have the time or patience to deal with the problem anymore.

 

Just my 2 cents. Not sure about the battery problem, but on the fuel filter/ pump, I had a similar issue. I Bought my Crossfire in March of this year. It was fine for about one week, and then the light came on in the dash. I had the code checked, and it dait either fuel filter, or corrosion on the wires for reading pressure in the tank. At first I couldnt find the wires, and decided to replace the filter. I bought an Auto Zone filter, and erased the codes, land it was fine for about an hour. Then light came back on. Then thru the forum, I found where the wires were and they were corroded. I cleaned them up, and the light stayed out. About 2 weeks after that, it started to start hard. I had to crank quite a bit before it would start, and upon hard acceleration, had a loss of power. I again went to the forum, and had many responses, but someone showed me the repair manual availab le online. and sent a section on how to check if it is the fuel pump, or filter. I had to get a fuel rail pressure gauge and chedk pressure. Sure enough, when I shut it off, the pressure immediately dropped to zero. Thad indicates the the fuel filter. I went and got another filter from auto xone, and It worked for about a month and did the exact same thing again. So I got my money back and ordered one on line from E-Bay. It was supposed to be german, but was from If I remember correctly Isreal. Anyway,it worked for a few weeks again, and then started to act up same as others. I finally bought a used unit, pump and filter and it has worked ever since. The filters I tried always ended up sticking their pressure regulator spring, thus letting the fuel return to the tank. I confirmed this by blowing in all of them after failure. Anyway, hope this helps,
Dave

 

Pressure regulators control pressure and only shut off the flow when the diaphragm/valve is moved by pressure over the set level. In a situation where no pressure is in the regulator they are open. That's how they work, no pressure or low pressure the regulator is not working, when the pressure reaches the upper limit it cuts off the flow until the pressure on the valve is below the set limit.

The fuel pump has a non return valve and that is what should stop the return of gas to the tank. If that fails the pressure will drop quickly, the valve will leak over time as can the injector so after some period the pressure will drop. How long that is depends on the seals, it may be a day or a month it all depends. A seal that has failed will not hold the pressure for any period at all and the pressure will drop at once. It does not take too much leakage for there to be no pressure at all.

No pressure at the injector means no fuel injection as they are not pumps.

I think this is a rough idea of how it works.

 

Sorry onehundred 80 , but the valve in the filter, which is the regulator, is always closed, not open . that is until the pressure gets too high, such as low demand. ( maybe letting the engine idle for a period of time). Then the valve opens and lets the fuel return to the tank.Once the valve opens, and enough fuel or pressure is released, the valve automatically closes again. If it were always open, it would never build up pressure. I believe what the problem with aftermarket filteres is this. Once the valve opens when the pressure excedes the set amount it gets stuck open with something. That something being in all of my cases alluminum particles. Every filter that malfunctioned had particles in it. My guess is poor quality control. Also, when the filter is new there is only one way you can blow thru it. Inlet from fuel pump, directly thru to outlet going to engine. No restrictions. Other than injectors being closed. But the other two ports goes to emissions and the other to the tank. If you plugged the outlet going to the engine and blew into it no air would come out of these other two lines. But after failure, you could blow in it with the engine outlet blocked, and air would come out of the tank line. Anyway, not trying to argue about this, only kinow because of my intense involvement with this problem. The valve in the fuel pump is a check valve, and it only keeps the fuel at the pump. It holds no pressure. Hope this clears up how the fuel filter/ pressure regulator works.

 

You are correct of course, I forgot the bypass function. I hate being wrong, my wife always reminds me of that, as she's always right.

The pump has the one way valve and it does maintain pressure as there is no other way for the pressure to drop and fuel to escape when the return port in the filter is closed by the diaphragm valve.

If either leak then pressure is soon lost and it is slower to start. If the filter valve leaks badly enough low fuel pressure will occur and the car may not run at all.

I am a believer in OEM parts, from Bosch etc. I think you get what you pay for, maybe you pay for the name but you also get confidence. My stock of spares is all Bosch.

Why replace the fuel filters so often as many do. Unless you're filling the tank at a farm barrel or an ancient gas station you should be OK for years. Installing the cheapest filter from China in place of the OEM one is foolhardy.

 

You are correct on replacing the old one with an aftermarket. Before I knew how the filter worked, I thought this would be my best option for the engine light being on. Boy, was I wrong. I drive caddys, and even they can use aftermarket parts with no problem. I wasnt prepared for the filter also being a regulator. The last filter I bought outright for the Crossfire before buying a used unit was a Mann, and I asumed it was from Germany. It was however from as I said, I believe Isreal. Anyway, Learned my lesson on that one. This forum is invaluable. When I was having my problems, someone from the forum had steered me in the direction of the online repair manual. In the manual its where it stated that if the rail pressure dropped immediately, it was the filter/ regulator. If it dropped slowly, it was the valve in the pump. The valve in the pump does somewhat hold pressure, but does go down. Thats why the pump pumps for a second when the car is turned on. Anyway, Its been great conversing with you on this matter. Anything else, and Im lost. Thanks for everyones help on this forum. Its great,
Dave

 

Interesting thoughts, guys. I replaced the fuel filter a few thousand miles before these problems started. Perhaps that's the root cause after all. I'm taking it in on Friday to get looked at. With winter coming, I don't have the time or space to address this problem myself anymore.

 

I'm having this problem as well. I've changed the fuel pump and fuel filter. It's gotten better but this not perfect. Before I would have to turn key to on postion, then off, then on about 10 ten times before I could crank and start, now it's only 2 times every now an then.

Can someone link me to a fuel pressure gauge that would work out of the box? I dont know if I need a special adapter or something for it. TIA