Wheels, Brakes, Tires and Suspension Open discussion for tires/rims/lowering springs/brakes etc...

C32 Brake upgrade

Thread Tools
 
  #141 (permalink)  
Old 11-15-2018, 09:32 PM
alexdc's Avatar
Forum Regular
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default Re: C32 Brake upgrade

Originally Posted by LantanaTX
You are right that they have staggered pistons but reversing them has had no ill effects.
Do the staggered piston operate in the same order as if the caliper was in the trailing position?

Anybody knows this? Logically it should and this upgrade should not cause any drawbacks.
 

Last edited by alexdc; 11-15-2018 at 09:36 PM.
  #142 (permalink)  
Old 11-16-2018, 01:07 AM
turbomar's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Barrhaven, Ontario
Age: 61
Posts: 914
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default Re: C32 Brake upgrade

Originally Posted by alexdc
Do the staggered piston operate in the same order as if the caliper was in the trailing position?

Anybody knows this? Logically it should and this upgrade should not cause any drawbacks.
see post #136
 
  #143 (permalink)  
Old 11-16-2018, 01:45 AM
alexdc's Avatar
Forum Regular
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default Re: C32 Brake upgrade

I read the whole thing thanks.
 
  #144 (permalink)  
Old 11-16-2018, 09:31 AM
onehundred80's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ontario
Age: 84
Posts: 25,424
Received 585 Likes on 488 Posts
Default Re: C32 Brake upgrade

Throughout this thread I can see no mention of the specific part numbers of the calipers. I always think that part numbers are important, someone could think they have the correct parts, and find out they do not fit.
I have a pair of calipers that look like the ones in Turbomars post #136, for 330 mm rotors and with brembo moulded in the castings, the part numbers are tough to read though.
I think the numbers are 20.7047.03 and 20.7047.04.
Some of the posts are a bit vague as I know little about brakes generally. From what I gather they do need spacers. Is it best to switch center sections as mention in post #136?
 

Last edited by onehundred80; 11-16-2018 at 03:25 PM. Reason: #'s addded.
  #145 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2018, 02:29 PM
turbomar's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Barrhaven, Ontario
Age: 61
Posts: 914
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default Re: C32 Brake upgrade

I can't help you with part numbers. However, I can tell you the caliper works with the srt6 rotor, will require 1 or 2 washers depending on their thickness to center the caliper, will work with OE flex hoses, can be converted to a leading position application.

As you may have noted, the pistons differ in size. You could use the calipers as is but for the sake of even pad wear, it is preferable to have the smaller pistons at the leading edge of the pad. Looking at my caliper pic, the smaller pistons are at the top. If you were to just bolt on the ones you have with bleeder at the top, you would have the larger pistons at the top. Clear as mud? Lol
 
  #146 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2018, 05:48 AM
alexdc's Avatar
Forum Regular
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default Re: C32 Brake upgrade

Ok. That's what I was trying to figure out. For some reason it sounds pretty simple but I couldn't wrap my head around it.
 

Last edited by alexdc; 11-19-2018 at 02:08 PM.
  #147 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2018, 10:31 AM
onehundred80's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ontario
Age: 84
Posts: 25,424
Received 585 Likes on 488 Posts
Default Re: C32 Brake upgrade

Originally Posted by turbomar
I can't help you with part numbers. However, I can tell you the caliper works with the srt6 rotor, will require 1 or 2 washers depending on their thickness to center the caliper, will work with OE flex hoses, can be converted to a leading position application.

As you may have noted, the pistons differ in size. You could use the calipers as is but for the sake of even pad wear, it is preferable to have the smaller pistons at the leading edge of the pad. Looking at my caliper pic, the smaller pistons are at the top. If you were to just bolt on the ones you have with bleeder at the top, you would have the larger pistons at the top. Clear as mud? Lol
That is very clear, thanks.
Each part has a Brembo part number on it, this means each calipers has four part numbers, one on each casting that make up the assembly.
There are two different parts that make up the front faces, two different parts that make up the backs and two each of the part numbers that make the centre sections which have the legs for bolting the assembly to the hub. All together that makes six different parts.
I think that each part has similar parts in the Brembo stock so that various configurations to suit different rotor thicknesses and diameters, hubs, etc can be assembled.
I cannot find a Brembo catalog that lists the assemblies for different cars, I only know that these are for a 330 mm diameter rotor. I suppose the only way I can be sure these fit is to try a test fitting. If they fit I would like to get them bead blasted before taking them apart for new seals and reconfiguring them prior to assembly and repainting. I am hoping that they will fit with just spacers added. I do not think they came from a C32, I think they came from an E series car according to my research. The C32 calipers have a larger and flatter shaped oil line inlet web, mine are smaller and roundish like yours.
The odd thing is that no Mercedes part number is on any part, normally there is.
 
  #148 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2018, 12:26 PM
bluecoupe's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Grimsby, Ontario
Posts: 3,095
Received 61 Likes on 52 Posts
Default Re: C32 Brake upgrade

Dave, I was told that they came from an S430 and they will require 3/16” spacers to fit properly with SRT6 front rotors. I can bring you some washers when we change out your steering damper.
 
  #149 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2018, 02:49 PM
onehundred80's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ontario
Age: 84
Posts: 25,424
Received 585 Likes on 488 Posts
Default Re: C32 Brake upgrade

Originally Posted by bluecoupe
Dave, I was told that they came from an S430 and they will require 3/16” spacers to fit properly with SRT6 front rotors. I can bring you some washers when we change out your steering damper.
Thanks for that info, the rotor diameter and thickness are the same as the SRT, I checked a Brembo rotor and pad catalogue and they match.
They do not look the same as the C32 calipers. I will turn up some spacers from stainless steel if I can find some around here or I’ll get it from the place I used to work for. I think that I might paint them silver, it was going to be black using your decals. I have the black paint already though.
I have two steering dampers, Sparkie and I purchased spares in bulk but only one oil and no cabin filter left. I asked the auto parts dealer in town how much for a Mann oil filter, he said $40 each. I laughed. He had them in another brand box, Wix I think.
 
  #150 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2018, 03:50 PM
bluecoupe's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Grimsby, Ontario
Posts: 3,095
Received 61 Likes on 52 Posts
Default Re: C32 Brake upgrade

Originally Posted by onehundred80

Thanks for that info, the rotor diameter and thickness are the same as the SRT, I checked a Brembo rotor and pad catalogue and they match.
They do not look the same as the C32 calipers. I will turn up some spacers from stainless steel if I can find some around here or I’ll get it from the place I used to work for. I think that I might paint them silver, it was going to be black using your decals. I have the black paint already though.
I have two steering dampers, Sparkie and I purchased spares in bulk but only one oil and no cabin filter left. I asked the auto parts dealer in town how much for a Mann oil filter, he said $40 each. I laughed. He had them in another brand box, Wix I think.
Dave, I didn’t confirm the spacer width so best to do so before machining them. You .may need longer mounting bolts too
 
  #151 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2018, 04:08 PM
onehundred80's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ontario
Age: 84
Posts: 25,424
Received 585 Likes on 488 Posts
Default Re: C32 Brake upgrade

Originally Posted by bluecoupe


Dave, I didn’t confirm the spacer width so best to do so before machining them. You .may need longer mounting bolts too
Thanks, I will check the shim thickness required. I can get that within a thou as I have my toys as my wife calls them. I want to make the outside faces of the calipers really smooth and switch the pistons. Possibly fit stainless steel screws as someone mentioned in a previous post here.
Do you think it is worthwhile to put in new seals? There is no sign of leakage. I’ll do a trial fit first before any work on them is done though.
 
  #152 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2018, 05:15 PM
bluecoupe's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Grimsby, Ontario
Posts: 3,095
Received 61 Likes on 52 Posts
Default Re: C32 Brake upgrade

Hmm, good question. I think there is an argument for and against changing out the seals. Probably best to do so provided you don’t damage the new ones on assembly.
 
  #153 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2018, 11:39 PM
turbomar's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Barrhaven, Ontario
Age: 61
Posts: 914
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default Re: C32 Brake upgrade

Watch this:

 

Last edited by turbomar; 11-21-2018 at 10:12 AM.
  #154 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2018, 01:38 AM
alexdc's Avatar
Forum Regular
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default Re: C32 Brake upgrade

Originally Posted by onehundred80

Thanks, I will check the shim thickness required. I can get that within a thou as I have my toys as my wife calls them. I want to make the outside faces of the calipers really smooth and switch the pistons. Possibly fit stainless steel screws as someone mentioned in a previous post here.
Do you think it is worthwhile to put in new seals? There is no sign of leakage. I’ll do a trial fit first before any work on them is done though.
Do yours have staggered pistons as well? If so we should be looking for a set of calipers that doesn't.
 
  #155 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2018, 02:14 AM
alexdc's Avatar
Forum Regular
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default Re: C32 Brake upgrade

https://www.motor.com/magazine-summa...ves-july-2008/

This article talks about brakes and a part of it is about multi piston calipers with a staggered design.
​​​​​​
Here is what it says
Some multiple-piston calipers (for example, a caliper that features two pistons per side) may feature all four pistons of the same diameter, or two different-size pistons. When piston diameter varies in a caliper, this is referred to as a staggered-piston design. The smaller piston is located at the entry of the disc, while the larger piston is positioned at the exit. As a result, a staggered-piston caliper is directional; it must be mounted so that the disc is grabbed by the smaller piston on its entry through the caliper body, while the larger piston handles the exit point of the disc. Some caliper bodies will feature a stamped or etched indicator of rotor direction (an arrow, the word rotation, etc.) to indicate how the caliper must be mounted. Always position the caliper so the smaller pistons are located toward the rear and the larger pistons are located toward the front. Where the caliper is mounted in a vertical position, remember that as the rotor turns, it should rotate past the smaller piston first, then pass the larger piston. The larger piston always indicates the exit point in terms of rotor rotation.

The reason a multipiston caliper may feature a staggered-piston format is primarily to reduce the chance of taper-wear on the pads, and to maximize braking efficiency in certain applications. As the brakes are applied, the disc enters the caliper body and is acted upon by the pads, which push against the disc under hydraulic pressure. As the pads push against the disc, the point of caliper entry (where the disc first experiences clamping force) starts performing most of the work.

As the disc continues to rotate and leave the pressure point of the first pair of pistons, the exit pistons try to play catch-up. They may experience added demands, since the pads are being pushed by exit heat (the friction between pad and rotor) and possible evacuation of gases created by pad heat. As a result, in some cases where the pads are relatively long and pedal application is heavy, a taper-wear may start to occur at the entry side of the pads (if the entry pistons are more efficient at pushing the pad than the exit pistons). To balance the clamping force, and to keep pad-to-disc pressures constant throughout the travel length, a larger diameter piston may be used at the exit point.

The exit portion of longer pads does sometimes tend to provide less clamping force as compared to the entry portion. The added clamping force pressure afforded by larger diameter pistons addresses this issue. So why do some four-piston calipers feature same-size pistons on both entry and exit areas? Because the caliper maker, through its own research and development, has concluded that this particular caliper (given its size and the length of its pads) does not create a taper-wear problem for its pads, and therefore doesn't need a staggered-piston setup.
The only proper upgrade would be srt6 calipers according to this. All brake caliper upgrades from other mercs are a staggered design and would be inverted. The big piston followed by the small piston.
 

Last edited by alexdc; 11-20-2018 at 02:18 AM.
  #156 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2018, 02:44 AM
alexdc's Avatar
Forum Regular
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default Re: C32 Brake upgrade

I wish there was another option than the 'srt6' calipers for a legit upgrade. I don't like to go against what the engineers designed and I don't want to pay for a bbk.
 

Last edited by alexdc; 11-20-2018 at 04:00 AM.
  #157 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2018, 08:38 AM
onehundred80's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ontario
Age: 84
Posts: 25,424
Received 585 Likes on 488 Posts
Default Re: C32 Brake upgrade

Originally Posted by alexdc
https://www.motor.com/magazine-summa...ves-july-2008/

This article talks about brakes and a part of it is about multi piston calipers with a staggered design.
​​​​​​
Here is what it says


The only proper upgrade would be srt6 calipers according to this. All brake caliper upgrades from other mercs are a staggered design and would be inverted. The big piston followed by the small piston.
You did not read Turbomars post #145 in which he explains the calipers can be reconfigured, placing the smaller piston where the larger piston is in the standard setup of the calipers. I refer to this in my reply. This mod is not a high priority of mine, the SRT brakes work fine, it is just a change for the sake of change. With the number of spokes on the car the cosmetic upgrade value is very little.
It can be done, I have the calipers so I will do it. After all it is a long winter.


 

Last edited by onehundred80; 11-20-2018 at 08:45 AM.
  #158 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2018, 02:15 PM
alexdc's Avatar
Forum Regular
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default Re: C32 Brake upgrade

Originally Posted by onehundred80

You did not read Turbomars post #145 in which he explains the calipers can be reconfigured, placing the smaller piston where the larger piston is in the standard setup of the calipers. I refer to this in my reply. This mod is not a high priority of mine, the SRT brakes work fine, it is just a change for the sake of change. With the number of spokes on the car the cosmetic upgrade value is very little.
It can be done, I have the calipers so I will do it. After all it is a long winter.


Did he? From what I'm reading he's saying they are reconfigurable? But as anyone ever done it? The sockets where the 2 piston rest seems to be of different diameters? Or is the dust boot the only difference? Or you need to swap other parts to make it work?
 

Last edited by alexdc; 11-20-2018 at 02:39 PM.
  #159 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2018, 02:26 PM
alexdc's Avatar
Forum Regular
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default Re: C32 Brake upgrade


Doesn't look reconfigurable to me.
 
  #160 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2018, 03:54 PM
onehundred80's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ontario
Age: 84
Posts: 25,424
Received 585 Likes on 488 Posts
Default Re: C32 Brake upgrade

Originally Posted by alexdc
Did he? From what I'm reading he's saying they are reconfigurable? But as anyone ever done it? The sockets where the 2 piston rest seems to be of different diameters? Or is the dust boot the only difference? Or you need to swap other parts to make it work?
Read it again, you swap the bridging pieces end for end. The two bridging pieces are the same in each caliber. The bridge piece with the bleeder goes next to the smaller piston. At the moment the bleeder bridge is by the larger piston.
Turbomars post #136 says to swap the piston sections, true but it is the same as switching the bridge pieces end to end as they are identical pairs on each caliber. As he says clear as mud.
 

Last edited by onehundred80; 11-20-2018 at 04:49 PM.


Quick Reply: C32 Brake upgrade



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:10 AM.