Miss Lucy Threads ‘serves’ 5 BIG studs
Miss Lucy Threads ‘serves’ 5 BIG studs
This may be a little more racy but youll like how we can poke a little at the rear as she has to handle all the heavy action. Now don’t get too crossthreaded over this topic, it all natural and is nothing that has not been done before, at least by some among us.
We all need to be open minded about things that we may not have personally done ourselves, Butt it is something that makes an interesting read for those that might wanna do some ‘’ experimenting’’ late one dark night.
Iam always trying things that I think up or read in some “magazine” and so I thought that Id like to try going out of the normal bounds of and see what it feels like first hand. I went on line and ordered up the stuff that looked helpful for my first attempt when I started playing with the REAR end. Ive played with it too much in the past and lucy goosy did not really describe it and it was not as tight as it used to be, leaving me with Lucy Threads and some studs that were not getting it.
That’s right the rear end was getting stripped from all the in and out action over the last 2 years of activity. So I decided to drill – bore out that hole and see if I could not tighten it up to be as good as the day I first screwed in the studs. I have used antiseeze in the past and that was some good and some not what you wanna do.
I was going to get radical and go to 14 mm studs and really heavy up the studs. Anyone interested in 14 mm tap and Helicoils???? Anyway I drilled out the rear axle and went to tap the new holes with the 12 mm helicoil inserts. It went really easily and I have been testing and driving the rear to see / prove the integrity of the FIX.
To drill the holes, I drilled each hole out three times using bigger and bigger bits to allow the metal to be cut out without snagging or going off center with my trusty black and decker drill. The helicoils include a tap and inserts plus a thread inserter which is a black plastic carrier to assist getting the threaded coil started. To add belts to the suspenders, I wet the hole with red locktite as I added the inserts to add that bit of assistance in retaining the coil.
Now the disclaimers, the activity is not hard and I rethreaded each hole in about 5 minutes of effort and a quiet pace, with XM blasting Ozzy in the background for inspiration-energy. You must take the brake rotor off to see the progress which means that you have an opportunity to change pads if so inclined at this time.
With the rotor off you can see that the insert helicoils are not too deeply inserted. I used 9/16” inserts and suspect that ˝” inserts are a better match. If they are too long the rear ones will hit and interfere with the e-brake springs and make noise. They can also snag and pull the insert into a long messed up slinky thingy.
I used long inserts and had to use a dremel cutoff wheel to nip the turns to keep them with in the rear axle assembly. The photos attached in my gallery show the steps I followed, drilling, tapping, adding the inserts.
Now I have ten helicoils to insure solid fastner torqued studs. I use about 90 pound feet with a torque wrench. The helicoils are unique in that the stud on a typical car is pulling on the first few threads due to deformation of the metal. Pull a little more and then you start shedding threads till you have a stripped hole. Helicoils flex and have some bit of give which share the torque and pull out forces equally.
This allows you to have greater retention with less stress to the parent metal. Taaaa Daaaa. I believe that it is a win win upgrade. Now the inserts are also made of Stainless Steel so they don’t gall like the steel on steel axle/stud combination.
Me I wore the rear out with so many rear wheel changes, see the present stack and remember that there are still 4 more on the car. Street tires, slicks, different slicks, streee……..you get the idea. You may never see this amount of wear or need the helicoils, but you know a bit more than before and have it in your back pocket if you need it.
BTW the 14mm studs don’t fit in the 12 mm wheels because the ball of the stud requires a matching hole in the wheel. Some of the bigger Mercedes use 14mm studs. Not us……..
Hope you gained some info of the old rear end get a chance to see all the photos, especially the close fitting springs on the rear brake which have bedeviled so many with too long studs.
Enjoy, Woody
Rear axle dimentional information:
Brake rotor thickness at the wheel bolt 0.180
Axle hub thickness 0.472
Total thickness 0.652
The length of a bolt that may protrude
Behind the axle without hitting rear spring
Support for the parking brake 0.100
Total length that a wheel stud may extend beyond
The wheel mounting surface safely 0.752”
If you wanna be safe, then the wheel bolts when fitted into your wheels, they should be about and not longer that ľ of an inch.
Adding helicoils to the rear - CrossfireForum.org Gallery
We all need to be open minded about things that we may not have personally done ourselves, Butt it is something that makes an interesting read for those that might wanna do some ‘’ experimenting’’ late one dark night.
Iam always trying things that I think up or read in some “magazine” and so I thought that Id like to try going out of the normal bounds of and see what it feels like first hand. I went on line and ordered up the stuff that looked helpful for my first attempt when I started playing with the REAR end. Ive played with it too much in the past and lucy goosy did not really describe it and it was not as tight as it used to be, leaving me with Lucy Threads and some studs that were not getting it.
That’s right the rear end was getting stripped from all the in and out action over the last 2 years of activity. So I decided to drill – bore out that hole and see if I could not tighten it up to be as good as the day I first screwed in the studs. I have used antiseeze in the past and that was some good and some not what you wanna do.
I was going to get radical and go to 14 mm studs and really heavy up the studs. Anyone interested in 14 mm tap and Helicoils???? Anyway I drilled out the rear axle and went to tap the new holes with the 12 mm helicoil inserts. It went really easily and I have been testing and driving the rear to see / prove the integrity of the FIX.
To drill the holes, I drilled each hole out three times using bigger and bigger bits to allow the metal to be cut out without snagging or going off center with my trusty black and decker drill. The helicoils include a tap and inserts plus a thread inserter which is a black plastic carrier to assist getting the threaded coil started. To add belts to the suspenders, I wet the hole with red locktite as I added the inserts to add that bit of assistance in retaining the coil.
Now the disclaimers, the activity is not hard and I rethreaded each hole in about 5 minutes of effort and a quiet pace, with XM blasting Ozzy in the background for inspiration-energy. You must take the brake rotor off to see the progress which means that you have an opportunity to change pads if so inclined at this time.
With the rotor off you can see that the insert helicoils are not too deeply inserted. I used 9/16” inserts and suspect that ˝” inserts are a better match. If they are too long the rear ones will hit and interfere with the e-brake springs and make noise. They can also snag and pull the insert into a long messed up slinky thingy.
I used long inserts and had to use a dremel cutoff wheel to nip the turns to keep them with in the rear axle assembly. The photos attached in my gallery show the steps I followed, drilling, tapping, adding the inserts.
Now I have ten helicoils to insure solid fastner torqued studs. I use about 90 pound feet with a torque wrench. The helicoils are unique in that the stud on a typical car is pulling on the first few threads due to deformation of the metal. Pull a little more and then you start shedding threads till you have a stripped hole. Helicoils flex and have some bit of give which share the torque and pull out forces equally.
This allows you to have greater retention with less stress to the parent metal. Taaaa Daaaa. I believe that it is a win win upgrade. Now the inserts are also made of Stainless Steel so they don’t gall like the steel on steel axle/stud combination.
Me I wore the rear out with so many rear wheel changes, see the present stack and remember that there are still 4 more on the car. Street tires, slicks, different slicks, streee……..you get the idea. You may never see this amount of wear or need the helicoils, but you know a bit more than before and have it in your back pocket if you need it.
BTW the 14mm studs don’t fit in the 12 mm wheels because the ball of the stud requires a matching hole in the wheel. Some of the bigger Mercedes use 14mm studs. Not us……..
Hope you gained some info of the old rear end get a chance to see all the photos, especially the close fitting springs on the rear brake which have bedeviled so many with too long studs.
Enjoy, Woody
Rear axle dimentional information:
Brake rotor thickness at the wheel bolt 0.180
Axle hub thickness 0.472
Total thickness 0.652
The length of a bolt that may protrude
Behind the axle without hitting rear spring
Support for the parking brake 0.100
Total length that a wheel stud may extend beyond
The wheel mounting surface safely 0.752”
If you wanna be safe, then the wheel bolts when fitted into your wheels, they should be about and not longer that ľ of an inch.
Adding helicoils to the rear - CrossfireForum.org Gallery
Re: Miss Lucy Threads ‘serves’ 5 BIG studs
Originally Posted by waldig
This may be a little more racy but youll like how we can poke a little at the rear as she has to handle all the heavy action. Now don’t get too crossthreaded over this topic, it all natural and is nothing that has not been done before, at least by some among us.
We all need to be open minded about things that we may not have personally done ourselves, Butt it is something that makes an interesting read for those that might wanna do some ‘’ experimenting’’ late one dark night.
Iam always trying things that I think up or read in some “magazine” and so I thought that Id like to try going out of the normal bounds of and see what it feels like first hand. I went on line and ordered up the stuff that looked helpful for my first attempt when I started playing with the REAR end. Ive played with it too much in the past and lucy goosy did not really describe it and it was not as tight as it used to be, leaving me with Lucy Threads and some studs that were not getting it.
That’s right the rear end was getting stripped from all the in and out action over the last 2 years of activity. So I decided to drill – bore out that hole and see if I could not tighten it up to be as good as the day I first screwed in the studs. I have used antiseeze in the past and that was some good and some not what you wanna do.
I was going to get radical and go to 14 mm studs and really heavy up the studs. Anyone interested in 14 mm tap and Helicoils???? Anyway I drilled out the rear axle and went to tap the new holes with the 12 mm helicoil inserts. It went really easily and I have been testing and driving the rear to see / prove the integrity of the FIX.
To drill the holes, I drilled each hole out three times using bigger and bigger bits to allow the metal to be cut out without snagging or going off center with my trusty black and decker drill. The helicoils include a tap and inserts plus a thread inserter which is a black plastic carrier to assist getting the threaded coil started. To add belts to the suspenders, I wet the hole with red locktite as I added the inserts to add that bit of assistance in retaining the coil.
Now the disclaimers, the activity is not hard and I rethreaded each hole in about 5 minutes of effort and a quiet pace, with XM blasting Ozzy in the background for inspiration-energy. You must take the brake rotor off to see the progress which means that you have an opportunity to change pads if so inclined at this time.
With the rotor off you can see that the insert helicoils are not too deeply inserted. I used 9/16” inserts and suspect that ˝” inserts are a better match. If they are too long the rear ones will hit and interfere with the e-brake springs and make noise. They can also snag and pull the insert into a long messed up slinky thingy.
I used long inserts and had to use a dremel cutoff wheel to nip the turns to keep them with in the rear axle assembly. The photos attached in my gallery show the steps I followed, drilling, tapping, adding the inserts.
Now I have ten helicoils to insure solid fastner torqued studs. I use about 90 pound feet with a torque wrench. The helicoils are unique in that the stud on a typical car is pulling on the first few threads due to deformation of the metal. Pull a little more and then you start shedding threads till you have a stripped hole. Helicoils flex and have some bit of give which share the torque and pull out forces equally.
This allows you to have greater retention with less stress to the parent metal. Taaaa Daaaa. I believe that it is a win win upgrade. Now the inserts are also made of Stainless Steel so they don’t gall like the steel on steel axle/stud combination.
Me I wore the rear out with so many rear wheel changes, see the present stack and remember that there are still 4 more on the car. Street tires, slicks, different slicks, streee……..you get the idea. You may never see this amount of wear or need the helicoils, but you know a bit more than before and have it in your back pocket if you need it.
BTW the 14mm studs don’t fit in the 12 mm wheels because the ball of the stud requires a matching hole in the wheel. Some of the bigger Mercedes use 14mm studs. Not us……..
Hope you gained some info of the old rear end get a chance to see all the photos, especially the close fitting springs on the rear brake which have bedeviled so many with too long studs.
Enjoy, Woody
Rear axle dimentional information:
Brake rotor thickness at the wheel bolt 0.180
Axle hub thickness 0.472
Total thickness 0.652
The length of a bolt that may protrude
Behind the axle without hitting rear spring
Support for the parking brake 0.100
Total length that a wheel stud may extend beyond
The wheel mounting surface safely 0.752”
If you wanna be safe, then the wheel bolts when fitted into your wheels, they should be about and not longer that ľ of an inch.
Adding helicoils to the rear - CrossfireForum.org Gallery
We all need to be open minded about things that we may not have personally done ourselves, Butt it is something that makes an interesting read for those that might wanna do some ‘’ experimenting’’ late one dark night.
Iam always trying things that I think up or read in some “magazine” and so I thought that Id like to try going out of the normal bounds of and see what it feels like first hand. I went on line and ordered up the stuff that looked helpful for my first attempt when I started playing with the REAR end. Ive played with it too much in the past and lucy goosy did not really describe it and it was not as tight as it used to be, leaving me with Lucy Threads and some studs that were not getting it.
That’s right the rear end was getting stripped from all the in and out action over the last 2 years of activity. So I decided to drill – bore out that hole and see if I could not tighten it up to be as good as the day I first screwed in the studs. I have used antiseeze in the past and that was some good and some not what you wanna do.
I was going to get radical and go to 14 mm studs and really heavy up the studs. Anyone interested in 14 mm tap and Helicoils???? Anyway I drilled out the rear axle and went to tap the new holes with the 12 mm helicoil inserts. It went really easily and I have been testing and driving the rear to see / prove the integrity of the FIX.
To drill the holes, I drilled each hole out three times using bigger and bigger bits to allow the metal to be cut out without snagging or going off center with my trusty black and decker drill. The helicoils include a tap and inserts plus a thread inserter which is a black plastic carrier to assist getting the threaded coil started. To add belts to the suspenders, I wet the hole with red locktite as I added the inserts to add that bit of assistance in retaining the coil.
Now the disclaimers, the activity is not hard and I rethreaded each hole in about 5 minutes of effort and a quiet pace, with XM blasting Ozzy in the background for inspiration-energy. You must take the brake rotor off to see the progress which means that you have an opportunity to change pads if so inclined at this time.
With the rotor off you can see that the insert helicoils are not too deeply inserted. I used 9/16” inserts and suspect that ˝” inserts are a better match. If they are too long the rear ones will hit and interfere with the e-brake springs and make noise. They can also snag and pull the insert into a long messed up slinky thingy.
I used long inserts and had to use a dremel cutoff wheel to nip the turns to keep them with in the rear axle assembly. The photos attached in my gallery show the steps I followed, drilling, tapping, adding the inserts.
Now I have ten helicoils to insure solid fastner torqued studs. I use about 90 pound feet with a torque wrench. The helicoils are unique in that the stud on a typical car is pulling on the first few threads due to deformation of the metal. Pull a little more and then you start shedding threads till you have a stripped hole. Helicoils flex and have some bit of give which share the torque and pull out forces equally.
This allows you to have greater retention with less stress to the parent metal. Taaaa Daaaa. I believe that it is a win win upgrade. Now the inserts are also made of Stainless Steel so they don’t gall like the steel on steel axle/stud combination.
Me I wore the rear out with so many rear wheel changes, see the present stack and remember that there are still 4 more on the car. Street tires, slicks, different slicks, streee……..you get the idea. You may never see this amount of wear or need the helicoils, but you know a bit more than before and have it in your back pocket if you need it.
BTW the 14mm studs don’t fit in the 12 mm wheels because the ball of the stud requires a matching hole in the wheel. Some of the bigger Mercedes use 14mm studs. Not us……..
Hope you gained some info of the old rear end get a chance to see all the photos, especially the close fitting springs on the rear brake which have bedeviled so many with too long studs.
Enjoy, Woody
Rear axle dimentional information:
Brake rotor thickness at the wheel bolt 0.180
Axle hub thickness 0.472
Total thickness 0.652
The length of a bolt that may protrude
Behind the axle without hitting rear spring
Support for the parking brake 0.100
Total length that a wheel stud may extend beyond
The wheel mounting surface safely 0.752”
If you wanna be safe, then the wheel bolts when fitted into your wheels, they should be about and not longer that ľ of an inch.
Adding helicoils to the rear - CrossfireForum.org Gallery
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Re: Miss Lucy Threads ‘serves’ 5 BIG studs
Audi and VW use 14mm bolts. You can buy wheels for an audi or VW, just know they use a smaller hub bore so you'd have to machine the wheels (about 8mm IIRC) but its a viable option. Or have the stock wheels drilled for 14mm bolts (already looked into it, very doable and affordable)
Senior Member
Re: Miss Lucy Threads ‘serves’ 5 BIG studs
With respect I have a few comments on this article to clarify a few points that are open for interpretation.
As stated you should not use any lubrication on the bolts, this leads to over torquing of the bolts as they are easier to tighten. This can lead to the threads deforming and stripping, the bolt is also closer to its shear load. Later in the article 90ft/lb is mentioned, the specification is 80ft/lb.
With lubricated threads the 90ft/lb would stress the bolt and threads higher than 90ft/lb without lubrication.
I would not recommend anyone to drill and tap these holes free hand, it is essential that these holes maintain the correct centers as the original and be drilled parallel to the wheel axis.
If they are not true then the bolts will exert side pressure on the spherical seats in the wheel and this could lead to cracks in the area of the holes.
Drills that are not accurately sharpened will wander away from center and produce oversize holes. When drilling with a hand drill it is nearly impossible to drill truly square, a good drill will try to self center to some degree but the operator is fighting the weight of the hand drill and this 'feel' is lost. Tapping the hole free hand is also not a task to be tackled by the novice, attempts to straighten a tap which is wandering leads to a loosely tapped hole that will not satisfy the Helicoil requirement.
Drilling and tapping these holes should be done in a milling machine by a skilled operator. The holes would be located truly to the hub axis.
Loctite is not required in these holes, when the tapped hole is to specification the correct face to face contact of the Helicoil and base metal is ideal.
Under load items flex if they can to relieve their loads, they do not flex to take on loads
The 14mm Helicoil inserts would also not have sufficient depth in the hub to be inserted as they require a minimum thickness of 14mm (.550") to meet the minimum specifications.
The 14mm studs have a 14mm radius spherical ball seat.
Originally Posted by waldig
I have used antiseeze in the past and that was some good and some not what you wanna do.
With lubricated threads the 90ft/lb would stress the bolt and threads higher than 90ft/lb without lubrication.
To drill the holes, I drilled each hole out three times using bigger and bigger bits to allow the metal to be cut out without snagging or going off center with my trusty black and decker drill.
If they are not true then the bolts will exert side pressure on the spherical seats in the wheel and this could lead to cracks in the area of the holes.
Drills that are not accurately sharpened will wander away from center and produce oversize holes. When drilling with a hand drill it is nearly impossible to drill truly square, a good drill will try to self center to some degree but the operator is fighting the weight of the hand drill and this 'feel' is lost. Tapping the hole free hand is also not a task to be tackled by the novice, attempts to straighten a tap which is wandering leads to a loosely tapped hole that will not satisfy the Helicoil requirement.
Drilling and tapping these holes should be done in a milling machine by a skilled operator. The holes would be located truly to the hub axis.
Loctite is not required in these holes, when the tapped hole is to specification the correct face to face contact of the Helicoil and base metal is ideal.
Helicoils flex and have some bit of give which share the torque and pull out forces equally.
BTW the 14mm studs don’t fit in the 12 mm wheels because the ball of the stud requires a matching hole in the wheel. Some of the bigger Mercedes use 14mm studs. Not us……..
The 14mm studs have a 14mm radius spherical ball seat.
Last edited by onehundred80; 08-26-2010 at 01:13 PM.
Re: Miss Lucy Threads ‘serves’ 5 BIG studs
Quote:
Helicoils flex and have some bit of give which share the torque and pull out forces equally.
Under load items flex if they can to relieve their loads, they do not flex to take on loads
Helicoil data sheets point out that they deform to distribute the stresses and reduce the opportunity to Pull out the first few threads, promoting greater retention strength.
I use 90 pound feet of torque because the techs check wheel studs at 90 and rather than have them keeping twisting here and there, I went to 90, went along to get along. Plus it is only 12% more and below my threshold of concern. I have had wheels shed in the middle of a tight corner with cheap nuts that pulled out, now I replace the studs and or nuts annually rather than mess with them, die checking etc. Woody
Helicoils flex and have some bit of give which share the torque and pull out forces equally.
Under load items flex if they can to relieve their loads, they do not flex to take on loads
Helicoil data sheets point out that they deform to distribute the stresses and reduce the opportunity to Pull out the first few threads, promoting greater retention strength.
I use 90 pound feet of torque because the techs check wheel studs at 90 and rather than have them keeping twisting here and there, I went to 90, went along to get along. Plus it is only 12% more and below my threshold of concern. I have had wheels shed in the middle of a tight corner with cheap nuts that pulled out, now I replace the studs and or nuts annually rather than mess with them, die checking etc. Woody
Re: Miss Lucy Threads ‘serves’ 5 BIG studs
i stripped the rears alittle by using half rate tire shops that over torque with the air GUN.i dont like helicoils,sorry.so i just tapped the rears with a 14mm x 1.5 tap and moved on to 14mm bolts.i really like the dimensions chart you listed .i hit the e brake spring before and heard that noise you were taking about.with the horse power on my limited rated 450 hp i didnt want a weak connection on the rear.last thing you ever want is an unstable wheel.thanks for the dimensions.bye
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