Today, for the first time since we brought our new (to us) ‘04 Crossfire home at the end of January, we decided the roads were as dry and salt free as they would be for a while so we took our Crossfire out on a back roads run up to Green Bay for supper.

The outside air temperature was about 30, the sun was out and the air was dry.

On a day like this, all of our other cars would keep the windows free of fog by just setting the fan to the first or second position and tempering the incoming air through the dash and foot vents to about 65 degrees with the heater control (no AC in use).

Imagine our surprise when we had trouble keeping the windows from fogging up on the inside, especially the windows on the side of the car away from the sun! Even with the air conditioner on, the fan speed set to maximum, the air distribution mode set to defrost and the rear window defroster set on, the windows did not completely de-fog.

It was as if the air handling system was set to re-circulate (but it wasn’t). (Is there a way to confirm that the air re-circulation switch is actually doing something besides turning it’s tally light on and off?)

Has anyone else had this problem with their Crossfire Coupe?

- Bill

 

You may want to close the center vents to allow all of the air to be directed to the window vent. Just move the small thumb slide to the X position to close the vent. It took me a while to figure it out too. I hope this works for you.

 

I had the same problem, and what is happening is that your not getting fresh air in the cab. The resert blend door is not opening letting fresh air in to the cab to help get rid of the condensation that is in the cab of the car. My dealership had to repair a part that had broken in the blend door assembly. A way you can tell if it is working is put your fan on the highest setting and operate the resert button and you should hear the difference in the fan as it is changing from inside to out side air flow. Hope this helps.

Mine is also a '04 limited, it may be a problem with this model year.

 

Well, it looks like I'll have to get to the "recirc air switchover valve" to see if the problem is with the valve itself or the connection between the valve and the air flap.

Looking at the procedure to access the valve, I'm not sure if the "lower instrument panel (right)" can be removed without following the entire procedure starting on page 23-149 of the service manual and removing the top section of the instrument panel as directed as part of the process of removing the glove compartment for access to the valve.

Anyone know for sure?

- Bill

 

This morning I spent about 2.5 hours trying to get to the "recirc air switchover valve" without removing the top section of the instrument panel. Sorry to report that there is 1 screw that will still have to be removed, but it is covered by the top section of the instrument panel.

I started the process of removing the top section of the instrument panel, but I may now be at an impasse. It appears that some of the step-by-step instructions in the service manual PDF may not actually apply to the car.

For example, it shows a step (complete with a drawing) where you remove a screw form each of the two outboard air vents. Look as I may, I cannot see the screws they say need to be removed. They also say to remove two screws that hold the top section of the instrument panel to the center console, but the instructions for disassembling the upright portion of the console do not talk about how to remove the center vents which would seem to be in the way of getting to the two screws.

I wonder if the dealer's service departments might have some errata sheets or supplements to the service manual?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

- Bill

 

There is another possibility. Don't know if it applies to you of course, that's up to you.

There may be a water leak into the cabin. Check the floor and carpets carefully on the passengers side. Several times I have found wet or soaked carpet there when I have trouble with very slow defogging.

There is a drain in the fresh air intake plenum that can get plugged. This has happened several times to me. The plenum drain is found under the cowling. So you (or service folks) must remove both wiper arms/blades and cowl/grate to expose the drain which on the far right (passenger) side.

There is a grate in the cowl which is meant to keep leaves and such out of the fresh air intake plenum but bits and twigs can still get through and plug that drain. Once plugged water will spill over and make it's way into the cabin near the passengers feet.

 

I'm going to throw out another possibility that may, or may not, help. From my previous ownership of a Mazda, the only way the defroster would defrost was to have the A/C turned on (it made no difference whether the recirc button was activated or not). By turning the A/C on, the drier would start to work immediately, and clear the windows. It took the service manager a long time to convince me of that, but it worked like a charm ever after. Of course you can run the temp control ***** up to wherever, but the key is the drier absorbing the moisture.

If it works, let us know. Mine stays in the garage and has not been driven in climate weather...yet.

 

Thanks for the ideas.

With respect ot moisture draining into the cabin, I've looked carefully for any signs of this as I've been working to get to the recirc valve. No sign of moisture at all. This is not surprising, since I have not driven the car in the snow or rain since I bought it in January.

With respect to using the A/C to help with de-misting, even with the A/C and fan running full tilt and the vents set to defrost, we couldn't keep the windows on the shaded side of the car mist free on a clear, sunny 30 degree day when the only apparent source of moisture would be from what my wife and I were exhaling.

I'm really convinced that absolutely no outside air was flowing through the cabin to reduce the humidity.

My next step in trying to get to the valve is finding a source for the extraction tool(s) needed to remove the radio so I can gain access to the screws that hold the trim panel which may cover some of the screws holding the dash top cover in place. I've got some extraction tools for Blaupunkt radios that are almost like the tools shown in the manual, but I'm fearful that if I insert them, they may be captured but not release the radio.

- Bill

 

Today I picked up a set of extraction tools that are said to be good for all German radios. Tomorrow, I'll put some heat in the garage and see how much farther I can get in reaching the recirc air switchover valve.

In the mean time, I've been studying the service manual section on the HVAC system.

As far as I can tell, the recirc air switchover valve simply applies vacuum to the actuator for the flap which switches the air flow to the blower from outside air to cabin air. I don't find any information in the manual as to which mode is enabled when vacuum is applied to the flap actuator. I'm also not finding any reference to the flap's actual location in the manual either.

I'm hoping that when I get access to the recirc air switchover valve, I'll be able to follow the vacuum line to the flap actuator.

If anyone knows which function is enabled when vacuum is applied, please let me know.

- Bill

 

This morning, I removed the radio, found the screws that hold the center stack cover, removed the center stack cover, removed the air vents at the top of the stack and found and removed the two screws that go through the top of the console riser into the instrument panel top cover.

I've now completed all of the steps needed to remove the instrument panel top cover (with the exception of step three at the top of page 23-150 of the PDF version of the manual) shown in the service manual.

This step describes the removal of one screw each from the left and right air vents, but I cannot find the screws.

I'd sure appreciate it if someone with a copy of the service manual would take a look and see if they can find these screws in the left and right vents on their Crossfire coupe...

- Bill

 

Update: This evening, I had a Chrysler Tech I know come over to take a look.

It turns out that the manual is not correct.

You have to pry the complete vent assembly from the dash panel to find the screw holding the top panel on each side.

I'll keep plodding along on this project tomorrow morning.

- Bill

 

Today, after removing the screw revealed when you remove the passenger side air vent, I learned that the glove box/lower instrument panel assembly can be removed without removing the instrument panel top cover! Chalk up another error in the service manual. Between this error and the error in the instructions for removing the air vent, I wasted a lot of time this week.

Now that I have access to the recirc air switchover valve, I need to figure out how to remove the vacuum tube fittings without breaking them. The fittings seem to have the tube cemented to the fitting which is cylindrical with some slices at the open end that create four quadrants with lips that snap over a raised portion of the inlet and outlet of the recirc air switchover valve. There is probably a tool to spread the quadrants so they will slip back off of the ports, but I've looked at what is available locally and what is available won't fit into the space available on this valve.

Any ideas?

Anyone know of a Mercedes Benz forum where I might find someone familiar with how Mercedes does things?

- Bill

 

I believe what your looking at is called a push lock fitting. The way you disconnect them is to push in the collar {the top piece of the fitting} that the tube goes in to, and push in the tube at the same time. When the tube and collar both reach the bottom of the fitting you hold the collar down and that will release the tube and you can pull the tube out of the fitting. To reinstall the tube, all you do is push the tube in to the fitting and it will lock in. By the way, can you see any thing wrong with the valve ?

 

alfdoc -

Thank you for the suggestion.

I was on the road yesterday, but I took another look at the valve and fittings this morning after church.

I don't think the fittings are of the type you describe.

I don't know how to attach photos to this reply, but I've sent you a personal message about e-mailing photos of this valve and it's fittings to you.

- Bill

 

I've just now uploaded two views of the vacuum valve and it's fittings to the Gallery.

Please take a look and let me know if you know how to release the two vacuum line from the valve ports without rendering them useless for re-installation.

I believe the port on the right is the vacuum source and the port on the top leads to the vacuum actuator for the recirc air flapper.

- Bill

 

Bill, these are different than the push locks that i have dealt with, but they are similar. Looking at your pic's on the valve exhaust port at the bottom, and looking at the fittings for the vacuum lines, i believe that they have o-rings in the fitting to make the seal. To release them you should use a small flat blade screw driver and gently pry the lock tabs to disengage the fitting over the tapered part of the valve nipple. That is if you can't get the proper tool for doing this, it has taken my self and other techs a few years to finally find tool for releasing the push locks that i told you about, which won't work on the fittings that you have pictured. I'm sorry i can't give you any more info on this. By the way have you preformed a voltage test to the valve to make sure the controller is working and also did you disconnect the linkage from the valve to the flap, and check the flap operation ?

 

alfdoc -

I can't thank you enough for staying with me on this project.

Since I'm more familiar with working on older cars and intimidated by the warnings about accidentally setting off the air bag(s), I've kept the battery disconnected while trying to get the output connection off of the valve so that I could apply vacuum from a Mityvac to see what the actuator does.

This morning, I went ahead and did the three electrical tests specified on pages 24 - 47 and 24 - 48 of the service manual. All of the tests were within spec, so the manual tells me to replace the control module but the manual completely ignores the possibility that the valve may have continuity but still not operate, the possibility that the actuator is faulty, the possibility that the linkage is not correct and the possibility that the flap is jammed.

Next, I started the engine and operated the recirc switch. When set to recirc, I can see the back (the end facing the back of the car) of the actuator move to the left (toward the center of the car) as if it's straining against something that won't move. This seems to confirm that vacuum is available to the valve and is being passed along to the actuator.

The manual does not seem to discuss the operation of the flap with respect to its default status. Do you know if it is held in the fresh air mode by the vacuum actuator or does the vacuum actuator hold it in the recirc mode. From the reaction of the actuator, I would guess that it is only supplied with vacuum when recirc is called for, but I'm not sure.

From the foot well, I cannot see or reach the linkage between the actuator and the flap, nor am I sure exactly where the flap is.

Would I be able to see the linkage and flap if I went ahead and removed the top of the instrument panel?

To avoid removing the top of the instrument panel, I'm thinking of dropping the blower assembly to see if I can view the flap by looking up through the opening where the blower goes.

I'd appreciate your thoughts on this.

- Bill

 

I dropped the blower (here again, the manual called for the removal of just three easily visible screws, but it turned out there was one more in a somewhat hidden location). From the footwell, I could reach the flap. I could slip the tips of my fingers under the flap. but it was quite securely held in the recirc position.

I went ahead and removed the top panel (I hope I can get it back in place). I can just barely see the linkage to the flap at the working end of the actuator, but I don't see how I would work on the linkage. I did confirm that when you press the recirc switch, the actuator's arm tries to pull in, but since things are stuck in the recirc position, it has no travel other than to deflect the actuator body towards the center of the car.

It turns out that I can get a small camera into a better position than I can get my own eyes. I've uploaded two views to my gallery. The photo named Recirc Flap Actuator 1 shows some detail for the white partially geared piece that engages the lever arm coming down from the end of the shaft around which the flap rotates. The photo named Recirc Flap Actuator 2 shows more detail in the black parts that work with the white piece.

If there is a diagram of this linkage in the service manual, I have not found it. I cannot determine what the gears on the white piece work against. I guess I'll have to see what else must be removed to get to the linkage. I hope I don't have to discharge the A/C to get there.

A related note: When I removed the top dash cover, I found a thin coaxial cable (brown in color) with an unterminated free end laying over the air ducting that feeds the center vents. Anyone have an idea what that is for?

As always, any thought would be appreciated.

- Bill

 

Bill, i looked in my service manual also and couldn't find any info on the removal or repair of the actuator. But i did go through my warranty invoices and found the repair that the tech did to my xfire, they said they found the actuator and linkage broken, they replaced the actuator and linkage, and the door housing. Unfortunately they did pull the ac evaporator and heater core, i would guess to gain access to the actuator and linkage. Also here are the pt #s that they used.

They listed 2 different pt #s on the invoice.

actuator 5099765-AA or 24029001
clip 5127433-AA or 24030013
housing 5098304-AA or 24028025

And after looking at those pictures it looks like the door is returned with the spring and pulled in with the arm coming from the what looks to be a diaphragm housing, which is controlled from the vacuum actuator. I think?

 

alfdoc -

I don't think the actuator is broken.

With respect to the linkage, it seems to be jammed out of "time".

Besides the arm that pulls into the actuator housing which transfers motion to the lever arm attached to the flap pivot rod via the white plastic piece, the approximate 170 degrees of gear teeth on the white piece seem (in the #2 photo) to mesh with a black gear below the white piece. I have no idea what function this serves.

Since I'm not equipped to capture the refrigerant, I may be at a dead end here.

I've got to think about this for a while.

- Bill