N/A crossfire 6 speed. just ran a 14.3 in the 1/4 mile
Re: N/A crossfire 6 speed. just ran a 14.3 in the 1/4 mile
Originally Posted by dinasrt
This is all a part of growing up. Eventually you boys will become men. 
This is a car forum!
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Re: N/A crossfire 6 speed. just ran a 14.3 in the 1/4 mile
Originally Posted by Franc Rauscher
BTW a simple weight to Horsepower doesn't equate to laptime. Our cars launch terribly. It's apparently all in the wrist?
Re: N/A crossfire 6 speed. just ran a 14.3 in the 1/4 mile
Originally Posted by Franc Rauscher
Not here. Where do you think you are?
This is a car forum!
This is a car forum!
Re: N/A crossfire 6 speed. just ran a 14.3 in the 1/4 mile
Without a 3.73, or maybe even 3.91's, I don't think a BONE STOCK NA car is ever going to break into the 13's.
No two cars ever perform exactly alike, no two drivers do either.
But for one car to run nearly a half a sec. faster than the norm, I'd suspect that it was "broke in" pretty hard, and the engine is probably "loose" compared to one that wasn't.
Just my $0.02.
No two cars ever perform exactly alike, no two drivers do either.
But for one car to run nearly a half a sec. faster than the norm, I'd suspect that it was "broke in" pretty hard, and the engine is probably "loose" compared to one that wasn't.
Just my $0.02.
Re: N/A crossfire 6 speed. just ran a 14.3 in the 1/4 mile
Originally Posted by Musclefan21
And you think you know about cars and racing? ROFL. I have raced many cars and broken multiple records. and you? I would love to see what you have accomplished. Dont give me that I enjoy road racing, etc. If you enjoy road racing and not intending to drag race, then STFU and dont make any comments on drag racing since you obviously lack of knowledge when it comes to it. Yes you sure can squeeze a 20hp on an 8 cylinder car easier than a crossfire. But I dont think i have mentioned anything about making more pwer is easy with the crossfire. I think you need to re-read my post, or are you having trouble reading? Damn public schools. I am pretty sure I have said that it is a lot easier to cut down some tenths from a 14 second car. and it is the case.
200 to the wheels would be around 230-235hp at the crank. Are you telling me that a highly modified crossfire only gains about 15 - 20hp at the crank and that is it? I am pretty sure I can dig through my PMs and find a PM which a member told me he made around 275 at the crank with his modified crossfire. If I am not mistaking, he had cams as well.
Just because I havent modified a crossfire doesnt mean I dont know anything about them. I know physics and I KNOW drag racing. The way the car performed stock, should hit 13s modified N/A. Period.
You can't drive your car, and you take the credit off from the car. The car can perform, but can you? It appears not since you are all defensive on my comment that a modified N/A crossfire should see 13s.
Again, this is a bench talk and it will always be. If you want, I can drive your modified crossfire, run a 13 sec and throw you back the keys. Just let me know.
I think you are trying to feel better about your driving abilities by defending a modified ccrossfire is a 14 second car since you couldnt get her into 13s.
ttyl
200 to the wheels would be around 230-235hp at the crank. Are you telling me that a highly modified crossfire only gains about 15 - 20hp at the crank and that is it? I am pretty sure I can dig through my PMs and find a PM which a member told me he made around 275 at the crank with his modified crossfire. If I am not mistaking, he had cams as well.
Just because I havent modified a crossfire doesnt mean I dont know anything about them. I know physics and I KNOW drag racing. The way the car performed stock, should hit 13s modified N/A. Period.
You can't drive your car, and you take the credit off from the car. The car can perform, but can you? It appears not since you are all defensive on my comment that a modified N/A crossfire should see 13s.
Again, this is a bench talk and it will always be. If you want, I can drive your modified crossfire, run a 13 sec and throw you back the keys. Just let me know.
I think you are trying to feel better about your driving abilities by defending a modified ccrossfire is a 14 second car since you couldnt get her into 13s.
ttyl
Re: N/A crossfire 6 speed. just ran a 14.3 in the 1/4 mile
Originally Posted by +fireamx
Without a 3.73, or maybe even 3.91's, I don't think a BONE STOCK NA car is ever going to break into the 13's.
No two cars ever perform exactly alike, no two drivers do either.
But for one car to run nearly a half a sec. faster than the norm, I'd suspect that it was "broke in" pretty hard, and the engine is probably "loose" compared to one that wasn't.
Just my $0.02.
No two cars ever perform exactly alike, no two drivers do either.
But for one car to run nearly a half a sec. faster than the norm, I'd suspect that it was "broke in" pretty hard, and the engine is probably "loose" compared to one that wasn't.
Just my $0.02.
if you replace the gears though, you can't consider it "BONE STOCK"
Re: N/A crossfire 6 speed. just ran a 14.3 in the 1/4 mile
Originally Posted by psuperti
"200 to the wheels would be around 230-235hp at the crank" What do you guys think about this comment?
Simple math.
My Crossie was 154 at the wheels at 215 crank HP (by the book)
A .29 power loss.
Divide 200 by .71 = 281.69
I am not at 200RWH but close. So that maths out to 280 crank, theoreticaly
I think Muscles' numbers are hopefuly amplified
Re: N/A crossfire 6 speed. just ran a 14.3 in the 1/4 mile
Originally Posted by Franc Rauscher
I believe that 200 HP at the wheels relates to about 281 HP at the crank.
Simple math.
My Crossie was 154 at the wheels at 215 crank HP (by the book)
A .29 power loss.
Divide 200 by .71 = 281.69
I am not at 200RWH but close. So that maths out to 280 crank, theoreticaly
I think Muscles' numbers are hopefuly amplified
Simple math.
My Crossie was 154 at the wheels at 215 crank HP (by the book)
A .29 power loss.
Divide 200 by .71 = 281.69
I am not at 200RWH but close. So that maths out to 280 crank, theoreticaly
I think Muscles' numbers are hopefuly amplified
Re: N/A crossfire 6 speed. just ran a 14.3 in the 1/4 mile
Originally Posted by billvp
plus unless you bought the car new, you likely don't know if the car has a tune on it ... you may think it's stock, but it's not if you replace the gears though, you can't consider it "BONE STOCK"
if you replace the gears though, you can't consider it "BONE STOCK"Technically you're right Bill. Maybe I should have said a "bone" stock motor.
But when an SRT driver installs a "smaller diameter" pair of DR's on their car (and nothing else) it changes the overall gear ratio. And yet most everybody would still say he was running a "STOCK" vehicle when he rips off some 12 sec. runs. Instead of a 13.3 the magazines say they're supposed to run.
Drag Strips use to have a Pure Stock class, but you were still allowed to run any gear ratio that would fit in the "Stock" differential housing.
Mercedes has offered several cars over the years with 3.50:1 and even 3.90:1 gear ratios, and I assume those differential housings would probably fit where ours does now. It's a "Stock" Mercedes part, and our car is "mechanically" ALL Mercedes.
We were all saddled with what "Mother Mercedes" felt was the ideal gear ratio for the Crossfire, simply because that's what they installed in their SLK. This, "What's good for the goose is good for the gander". theology may work out fine in Germany where the Autobahn beckons, but in the good old U.S.of A where 65/70 mph is still the norm, (in a lot of places) it basically suc's.
Some will say, the NA Crossfire is a "sports car" and never meant to be a drag racer, and they would be right. But if you go to nearly any other "Sports Car" forum you will read where some Z car, Supra, BMW, Porsche, RX8, or what have you walked on a NA XF from a traffic light, and it perpetuates the myth that Crossfire's are slugs. Simply because ALL those other cars have better gear ratios than ours.
Oh well, the whole thing is basically "academic" anyway, until somebody figures out how to reflash the computer so it doesn't go into "limp mode" when somebody actually does install a better gear ratio.
But then reflashing the computer makes it NOT BONE STOCK.
Last edited by +fireamx; 11-18-2010 at 08:49 AM.
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Re: N/A crossfire 6 speed. just ran a 14.3 in the 1/4 mile
Changing rear end gears and considering it "modified" is debatable depending on the car. In terms of the XF where no factory rear gear options were available then yes, I would consider a change in gears to be a modification, but if my Mustang came with 3:55's and I swapped them out for a factory option 4:11's than its still a bone stock car IMO.
The term "sports car" is a vague and mysterious moniker also. Depending on what country of origin, what era etc produces different versions of "sports cars". Typically a sports car would constitute a nimble, balanced, rear drive with enough power to weight ratio to allow a spirited drive 'feel' even if the stop watch says you're doing 0-60 in 3 days. Take the Miata for a prime example. Considered to be one of the most pure sports cars ever produced, true 50/50 balance, rear drive, 2 seats and a paltry ~135hp and yet it just "works". But there are literally hundreds of exceptions to the rule (not that there is a rule).
As a new owner of a X-fire and new to this forum, I've been surprised to see so many trying to squeeze a horse here and a horse there from a NA XF just to improve a tenth of a second at a 1/4 strip. The NA XF is a canyon carver wrapped in a stylish body. Nothing more, nothing less. YMMV.
The term "sports car" is a vague and mysterious moniker also. Depending on what country of origin, what era etc produces different versions of "sports cars". Typically a sports car would constitute a nimble, balanced, rear drive with enough power to weight ratio to allow a spirited drive 'feel' even if the stop watch says you're doing 0-60 in 3 days. Take the Miata for a prime example. Considered to be one of the most pure sports cars ever produced, true 50/50 balance, rear drive, 2 seats and a paltry ~135hp and yet it just "works". But there are literally hundreds of exceptions to the rule (not that there is a rule).
As a new owner of a X-fire and new to this forum, I've been surprised to see so many trying to squeeze a horse here and a horse there from a NA XF just to improve a tenth of a second at a 1/4 strip. The NA XF is a canyon carver wrapped in a stylish body. Nothing more, nothing less. YMMV.
Re: N/A crossfire 6 speed. just ran a 14.3 in the 1/4 mile
[quote=oyster_gold]Changing rear end gears and considering it "modified" is debatable depending on the car. In terms of the XF where no factory rear gear options were available then yes, I would consider a change in gears to be a modification, but if my Mustang came with 3:55's and I swapped them out for a factory option 4:11's than its still a bone stock car IMO. quote]
Can you get the 4.11's installed in the Mustang from the factory? I don't think so. Can you get 4.11's over the parts counter? Yes you can.
I know our cars say Chrysler, but there isn't one mechanical part in it built by Chrysler. But Mercedes Benz built cars with the 3.50 and 3.91 gear ratios, (installed from the factory) and you can go to "Their" parts counter and order one for your Daimler/Chrysler.
So going by your analogy Oyster, (by what should be considered "stock" and what constitutes a modification) at the very least, the Crossfire should fall into the same catagory as your Stang.IMO Why? because we all know we're driving a Merc.
Can you get the 4.11's installed in the Mustang from the factory? I don't think so. Can you get 4.11's over the parts counter? Yes you can.
I know our cars say Chrysler, but there isn't one mechanical part in it built by Chrysler. But Mercedes Benz built cars with the 3.50 and 3.91 gear ratios, (installed from the factory) and you can go to "Their" parts counter and order one for your Daimler/Chrysler.
So going by your analogy Oyster, (by what should be considered "stock" and what constitutes a modification) at the very least, the Crossfire should fall into the same catagory as your Stang.IMO Why? because we all know we're driving a Merc.
Last edited by +fireamx; 11-18-2010 at 11:36 AM.
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Re: N/A crossfire 6 speed. just ran a 14.3 in the 1/4 mile
[quote=+fireamx]
Have you ever ordered a car from the manufacturer? You can most definitely order a Mustang with what ever gear ratio they offer. They are building the car for you, by your specs based on what they offer. The 'stang 3.73 gears is a $395 option.
I "built out" my Dodge pickup through a dealer and checked the box next to 3:55 (up from the standard 3.21).
Originally Posted by oyster_gold
Changing rear end gears and considering it "modified" is debatable depending on the car. In terms of the XF where no factory rear gear options were available then yes, I would consider a change in gears to be a modification, but if my Mustang came with 3:55's and I swapped them out for a factory option 4:11's than its still a bone stock car IMO. quote]
Can you get the 4.11's installed in the Mustang from the factory? I don't think so. Can you get 4.11's over the parts counter? Yes you can.
I know our cars say Chrysler, but there isn't one mechanical part in it built by Chrysler. But Mercedes Benz built cars with the 3.50 and 3.91 gear ratios, (installed from the factory) and you can go to "Their" parts counter and order one for your Daimler/Chrysler.
So going by your analogy Oyster, (by what should be considered "stock" and what constitutes a modification) at the very least, the Crossfire should fall into the same catagory as your Stang.IMO
Can you get the 4.11's installed in the Mustang from the factory? I don't think so. Can you get 4.11's over the parts counter? Yes you can.
I know our cars say Chrysler, but there isn't one mechanical part in it built by Chrysler. But Mercedes Benz built cars with the 3.50 and 3.91 gear ratios, (installed from the factory) and you can go to "Their" parts counter and order one for your Daimler/Chrysler.
So going by your analogy Oyster, (by what should be considered "stock" and what constitutes a modification) at the very least, the Crossfire should fall into the same catagory as your Stang.IMO
I "built out" my Dodge pickup through a dealer and checked the box next to 3:55 (up from the standard 3.21).
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Re: N/A crossfire 6 speed. just ran a 14.3 in the 1/4 mile
Originally Posted by Franc Rauscher
I believe that 200 HP at the wheels relates to about 281 HP at the crank.
Simple math.
My Crossie was 154 at the wheels at 215 crank HP (by the book)
A .29 power loss.
Divide 200 by .71 = 281.69
I am not at 200RWH but close. So that maths out to 280 crank, theoreticaly
I think Muscles' numbers are hopefuly amplified
Simple math.
My Crossie was 154 at the wheels at 215 crank HP (by the book)
A .29 power loss.
Divide 200 by .71 = 281.69
I am not at 200RWH but close. So that maths out to 280 crank, theoreticaly
I think Muscles' numbers are hopefuly amplified
.71 is a little over kill in my opinion Franc.
my GT putdown 260rwhp, with .71 it would be 360hp. which is not the case at all.
my cobra put down 455rwhp. with .71 it would be 640hp which was definitely not the case.
a 154rwhp tells me the car was overrated if everything was ok with the engine.
Didnt gary put down something like 17x to the wheels stock? I dont remember that exactly.
Last edited by Musclefan21; 11-18-2010 at 11:44 AM.
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Re: N/A crossfire 6 speed. just ran a 14.3 in the 1/4 mile
Originally Posted by psuperti
"200 to the wheels would be around 230-235hp at the crank" What do you guys think about this comment?
Re: N/A crossfire 6 speed. just ran a 14.3 in the 1/4 mile
Originally Posted by Musclefan21
accurate calculation should be based on 15%. So 200rwhp divided by 0.85 = 235.
.71 is a little over kill in my opinion Franc.
my GT putdown 260rwhp, with .71 it would be 360hp. which is not the case at all.
my cobra put down 455rwhp. with .71 it would be 640hp which was definitely not the case.
a 154rwhp tells me the car was overrated if everything was ok with the engine.
Didnt gary put down something like 17x to the wheels stock? I dont remember that exactly.
.71 is a little over kill in my opinion Franc.
my GT putdown 260rwhp, with .71 it would be 360hp. which is not the case at all.
my cobra put down 455rwhp. with .71 it would be 640hp which was definitely not the case.
a 154rwhp tells me the car was overrated if everything was ok with the engine.
Didnt gary put down something like 17x to the wheels stock? I dont remember that exactly.
To get 200HP to the wheels on a car that had stock 154 RWH and 215 HP at the crank, requires 285 at the crank. Using the same dyno of course.
Not an opinion.
Putting that integer , 0.71, into a formula for another unrelated car is silly math.
That, of course, is an opinion.
On another dyno the car could get a higher RWH. Therefore a lower power loss. But the same proportional change in the engine.
So, with that said your 15% could be right. But at the moment it too is an opinion
Last edited by Franc Rauscher; 11-18-2010 at 12:27 PM.
Re: N/A crossfire 6 speed. just ran a 14.3 in the 1/4 mile
[quote=oyster_gold]
Have you ever ordered a car from the manufacturer? You can most definitely order a Mustang with what ever gear ratio they offer. They are building the car for you, by your specs based on what they offer. The 'stang 3.73 gears is a $395 option.
I "built out" my Dodge pickup through a dealer and checked the box next to 3:55 (up from the standard 3.21).
Yes I've owned about 20 brand new cars in my lifetime, and many were "special ordered". (How many have you purchased?)
What I'm saying is, can you order a gear as steep as a 4.11 installed from the factory on a Stang, or is a gear that low only available over the parts counter?
I would think (due to warranty issues) they wouldn't build it with that gear ratio. A truck is an entirely different matter.
Originally Posted by +fireamx
Have you ever ordered a car from the manufacturer? You can most definitely order a Mustang with what ever gear ratio they offer. They are building the car for you, by your specs based on what they offer. The 'stang 3.73 gears is a $395 option.
I "built out" my Dodge pickup through a dealer and checked the box next to 3:55 (up from the standard 3.21).
What I'm saying is, can you order a gear as steep as a 4.11 installed from the factory on a Stang, or is a gear that low only available over the parts counter?
I would think (due to warranty issues) they wouldn't build it with that gear ratio. A truck is an entirely different matter.
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Re: N/A crossfire 6 speed. just ran a 14.3 in the 1/4 mile
[quote=+fireamx]
Yes I've owned about 20 brand new cars in my lifetime, and many were "special ordered". (How many have you purchased?)
What I'm saying is, can you order a gear as steep as a 4.11 installed from the factory on a Stang, or is a gear that low only available over the parts counter?
I would think (due to warranty issues) they wouldn't build it with that gear ratio. A truck is an entirely different matter.
I don't know...call them and ask them. I don't work for Ford. I did a quick Google search and found a guy who pasted the order sheet where the 3.73 gears was the tallest gear option. So back to the point, If I ordered a Mustang with taller gears than the ones they ship to the dealers than its still a 'bone stock' car. Period. Doesn't matter if its a truck, car or golf cart.
Originally Posted by oyster_gold
Yes I've owned about 20 brand new cars in my lifetime, and many were "special ordered". (How many have you purchased?)
What I'm saying is, can you order a gear as steep as a 4.11 installed from the factory on a Stang, or is a gear that low only available over the parts counter?
I would think (due to warranty issues) they wouldn't build it with that gear ratio. A truck is an entirely different matter.
Re: N/A crossfire 6 speed. just ran a 14.3 in the 1/4 mile
[quote=oyster_gold]but if my Mustang came with 3:55's and I swapped them out for a factory option 4:11's than its still a bone stock car IMO./quote]
Not if you put anything higher than 3.73's in it. Then it's not bone stock. Going by your original difinition.
Not if you put anything higher than 3.73's in it. Then it's not bone stock. Going by your original difinition.
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Re: N/A crossfire 6 speed. just ran a 14.3 in the 1/4 mile
[quote=+fireamx]
You're the one stuck on 4.11's. It was an example not a claim of fact. The point is made with any options that the manufacturer offers. It's all moot since the XF didn't have that luxury. fyi..it's 'definition'.
Originally Posted by oyster_gold
but if my Mustang came with 3:55's and I swapped them out for a factory option 4:11's than its still a bone stock car IMO./quote]
Not if you put anything higher than 3.73's in it. Then it's not bone stock. Going by your own difinition.
Not if you put anything higher than 3.73's in it. Then it's not bone stock. Going by your own difinition.
Re: N/A crossfire 6 speed. just ran a 14.3 in the 1/4 mile
[quote=oyster_gold]
You're the one stuck on 4.11's. It was an example not a claim of fact. The point is made with any options that the manufacturer offers. It's all moot since the XF didn't have that luxury. fyi..it's 'definition'.
You're a Class act Oyster, make fun of my poor spelling. I'm so crushed.
The point I was simply trying to make is this. The Crossfire is as much of a Mercedes as your Mustang is a Ford. A steeper gear ratio was available on the Mercedes just same as it was on your Mustang.
Changing a gear ratio in your car never use to be considered a big deal.
If the highest gear ratio your car came with from the factory was a 3.91, and you turned around and put 4.10's in it, and nothing else, it was still considered STOCK. By most enthusiasts.
When the SRT guys run lower profile DR's at the drags, and nothing else, would you actually go up to one of them and say nice times, but it's not stock?
Originally Posted by +fireamx
You're the one stuck on 4.11's. It was an example not a claim of fact. The point is made with any options that the manufacturer offers. It's all moot since the XF didn't have that luxury. fyi..it's 'definition'.
I'm so crushed. The point I was simply trying to make is this. The Crossfire is as much of a Mercedes as your Mustang is a Ford. A steeper gear ratio was available on the Mercedes just same as it was on your Mustang.
Changing a gear ratio in your car never use to be considered a big deal.
If the highest gear ratio your car came with from the factory was a 3.91, and you turned around and put 4.10's in it, and nothing else, it was still considered STOCK. By most enthusiasts.
When the SRT guys run lower profile DR's at the drags, and nothing else, would you actually go up to one of them and say nice times, but it's not stock?