Missing a gear would not blow the motor. you have a rev limiter and when you miss a gear the engine is not under load which limits boost.

 

This is not entirely correct. Yes, you have a rev limiter but when you bounce off the limiter, it cuts fuel which can cause a lean issue and that can in fact blow up your engine. While the odds of something bad happening the first time it occurs are pretty low, frequently missed shifts over time may cause damage.

 

I have just given Rob @ NW the go-ahead to start a full exhaust system, all cat-delete downpipes with cutouts mated to a Magnaflow cat-back. In late spring, early summer I will add an Evo-sport Under-drive pully kit and sync and finish everything up with an Upsolute custom ECU tune. The final product will look like this.

NW DCAI with K&N extremes and 74mm tb.
KV 85 plug wires and NGK iridiums 1 heat range colder.
Updated fuel filter/regulator and oil catch can
NW SRT all - cat delete w/ cut-outs and magnaflow cat-back. (at least where the cats were, lol.)
Evo-sport under-drive pulley kit and Air Conditioning delete.
ECU reflash.

I hope to be near stock SRT levels by then.

 

Tech, just for the sake of argument, let's say you succeed in your attempt at squeezing 300 hp out of your NA car by throwing EVERYTHING at it.
You would still only have a car that would perform about the same way a new Hyundai Genesis 3.8 (automatic) does. In other words, a 14 sec. machine.
Yes the Genesis weighs about 400lbs. more than the XF, but it has the one major "ingredient" the Crossfire doesn't. That would be its 3.73:1 differential.
We've discussed this before in other threads that you have started, but it's a simple fact, (IMO) the NA cars just don't have enough torque to over come their tall gear ratio to turn them into a consistant 13 sec. car.
Personally, I've always felt that has been the biggest road block in the NA's character. Until somebody (Rudy) is able to crack the Mercedes code that cripples the "automatic" cars by going into "limp" mode anytime a different gear ratio is installed, I'm afraid that's the way it's going to stay.
I sincerely hope you can prove me wrong, I'd love to see an "NA" break into the 13's at some point in time. I'd really love to see a relativily "stock" NA do it even more. But if it's going to cost you as much as it would to purchase an SRT to do so.......well you've heard it before.

 

I hate to break it to you, you will not make 300 hp.. keep the A/C and save for a turbo.

 

I have to agree.
I have the TVT265 which is a decent upgrade but regardless, any SRT6 will kick my *** into next week.
I wonder if EuroCharged Houston could do the turbo?

 

I will break the 270 RWHP barrier if its the last thing I do. The good thing about the last 2 items, the pulley kit and the ECU tune is that their gains are relative to what you already have. The Pulley kit doesn't so much give you power as much as it reduces your power loss to the wheels. The ECU tune gives 20 hp to a stock N/A, a modded car will get more. My exhaust is also very custom and very extreme. If I can't get to stock SRT power levels, I can overcome the gear ratio very simply. Weight reduction. Every 100 pounds is a 10th a second. The driver has dropped 50lbs since July Lol's. Back to business, as you can see, my XF is not my daily driver. Practicality is meaningless to me. I still have a consolation prize if I'm not successful. All of those mods will transfer to any V6 or V8 later on when I'm older and have my career to fund this, so at least there's no way I'm wasting my money. At least I will be able to say I tried and stuck it through to the end. As for the 3.8 Genesis Coupe, I've lost interest in comparing myself to that as they aren't that much quicker than an N/A off the line, only about 1/2 a second in a 1/4 mile and they are well out-classed by even a base N/A in the top-end and handling categories. See for yourselves. G's on the skid pad, braking, weight, etc.
- http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/original/application/bc7eb2cb023752f055326d4d8754337c.pdf

- http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/original/application/bc7eb2cb023752f055326d4d8754337c.pdf
That thing may as well be a 300HP Civic.

 

(From the pages of Motor Trend)


_______NA Crossfire (auto)_____________V6 Genesis (auto)

MPH/Sec
0-30______2.5___________________________2.1
0-40______3.8___________________________3.2
0-50______5.3___________________________4.3
0-60______7.1___________________________5.8
0-70______9.4___________________________7.6
0-80______11.8__________________________9.4
0-90______15.0__________________________11.5
0-100_____19.0__________________________14.1

1/4 mile__15.18@93.34mph_______________14.2@100.4mph
Lateral G's__.89__________________________.92
Weight____3084lbs._______________________3472lbs.
F/R Weight dist.__54/46________________________55/45
60-0_____114'___________________________113'

Tech. You're right, what was I thinking. The Genesis is a real slug.
But even if you strip 500lbs. off your XF, that only puts your NA's "stock" starting point at about 14.6sec.
If you really think you can overcome the better torque manipulation a lower gear ratio offers, simply by weight reduction, then let us know when you get done replacing every body part that unbolts from your car with something replicated in Carbon Fiber.
All I'm saying is, if we could simply replace our existing 3.27's with a 3.91 posi, that's probably all it would take to get us into the 13's. Without a doubt, 3.91's and a NeedsWings CAI for sure.
Again, I wish you luck turning your XF into something that you really want.

By the way, I'd LOVE to have 300hp in my Civic.......talk about torque steer........YEE-HAAA.lol

 

That one's easy! k20 + masterpower turbo + megasquirt = low 12 second civic lol

 

That's true Downward. But I guess I should have said I LOVE getting 38+mpg even more.

 

Just because I'm bored on a snow day, what are the key differences between the ML's M112 engine, and the normal 215 hp M112?

Intake design? Cam profile?

 

The M112 engine came in 3.2 and 3.7L in the ML. the 3.2 is the same as in our cars at 215 HP and 229 torque. The 3.7L M112 engine puts out 232hp and 254 torque. The 3.7 would be a bolt in swap but not picking up much HP. Some tuners are claiming 252hp and 274 peak torque with the 3.7 that is a 37hp gain and 43 foot pound more torque over a 3.2. Some Schrick cams (if you can find some) and a 74mm throttle body would wake up a 3.7 even more.

If I was trying to do what Tec 9 is doing naturally aspirated. I would get a 3.7 (they are dirt cheap) mill the head to get 11:1 compression, install larger valves and clean up the ports, schrick cams, 74mm throttle body, good intake, down pipes and free flowing exhaust. This would be a healthy sounding good running n/a V6 but may still fall a little short of a stock SRT in HP, but you would have a gearing advantage which might make up the difference.

The SRT has a 3.60 first gear with a 3.07 rear gear.
A n/a Crossfire with a manual trans has a 4.46 and an auto has a 3.95 first and both have a 3.27 rear. Might be an interesting race.

 

So who do we trust? Motortrend or Car and Driver? Nothing sounds right about the Motortrend stats. 70 to 0 in less than 120 feet, that's like Enzo stats there. Having driven both cars, I can say that the GenCoupe's handling capabilities fall far short of an XF. They are heavier, far less rigid, and designed for teen pan-heads who get their rocks off going sideways. They also lose to us on the top-end for 3 reasons. 1. We keep almost all of our power across our whole rpm range. 2. Gearing. 3. Aerodynamics, especially on the underside of the car. Having been underneath both, I see that the XF has panneling over everything but the drive-shaft and exhaust area. The Gen doesn't and where as the XF feels like I'm going 30mph at 150mph, the Gen starts shaking at 140, violently at 150, death likely occurring by 160 or 170. As for the 3.7 I'm interested in hearing more about it, such as the difficulty of the swap, what else is involved in making it work, and boostability. Hopefully its not in the same boat as the 320. I still intend to finish my attempt to get stock SRT levels from and N/A because its a project I committed to try all the way through and also because the best part is that all the mods I'm doing will swap to a 37, 43, 50, or 55. As for a higher differential, I wouldn't do that even if I could because I want a well rounded car, I don't want to throw away my top end so that I can go in a straight line over and over.

 

I think the 3.7 may have already ben done in the form of the Startech (AKA Brabus) 3.8 They rated their engine at 300hp 291 torque

 

Uh Enzo 60 - 0 is 95ft (motor trend) estimated of course. 120 is actually fairly average. I think the Viper is 90 something feet.

Interestingly enough Car and Driver says the Enzo stops 70 - 0 in 151ft
Source:
http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...3ade742b4c.pdf

Dodge Viper is 153 feet

 

Tech, reread the stats. It was 60-0, not 70-0. Ramblers were stopping in 115' from 60 mph, 43 years ago so chill out.
Changing the gear ratio in your car is all academic anyway, since it can't be done in an automatic Crossfire (without problems). So there's no need to worry about losing your useless 150 top end. Useless, because we don't have the Autobahn, and that's why Mercedes saddled us with it.
If you ask nearly any Crossfire owner (who gives a crap about their cars acceleration), I'd bet most would prefer a lower top end for a lower ET.
You seem to think just because a car has a lower gear ratio, it can't be a "well rounded" vehicle, and it's only good for drag racing. Well for the record, I've driven as far south as Ft. Lauderdale, all up the east coast, west to St. Louis, and as far north as Toronto in my 1969-390 AMX with a 3.73 ring and pinion, running 70 mph turning 3000 rpm's most all the time.
Going to 3.73's (and losing the 3.15's that came in the car from the factory) instantly lowered my ET's by 6/10's and made the car a whole lot more fun on the street. Does that not qualify as a well rounded vehicle?
Need I remind you, the Crossfire does have overdrive.
As I've said before, I wish you luck with your project, just be straight up with us and let us know how much it costs ya to finally beat one of those stock "Tuner Boy" Gens.

 

Around the Tail of the Dragon, or any other track with turns.....its free. Those cars suck! My target is a stock SRT-6

 

When did this thread turn into anything other than a Horse Power Project?

 

What's free?
Which cars suck?
You'll never make it to stock SRT hp/torque without adding boost or NOS.

 

Teck9, I want to see a parts list price break down. I honestly think you are gonna be well into the thousands with every bolt on possible and still not reach the goal you've set for yourself. If you want to get to stock SRT6 power numbers, go with an SRT6 engine swap and be done with it. I understand that I may be somewhat partial to just putting in a more powerful engine but you have to realize that the sum of the parts does not equate to the sum of their individual HP additions. If you make it within 50HP, I'll be very surprised but I feel you're doing nothing more than setting yourself up for failure. The bar is too just too high. I wish you all the luck but you're hitting a lump of coal with a sledge hammer trying make diamonds and it just isn't gonna happen.