Hi Guys,

My 04 Crossfire coupe will fails to to start engine, I get crank with click click click click.... then eventually if I hold it for long enough it may start!

Edit: here is a video I recorded of the issue - note at 50 seconds the choke when accelerator applied

• I get mixed results when I am holding the brake pedal, it seems to cut power to the car when pushing brake and attempting to start the engine. (BAS/ESP light comes on)
• Also when turning on the lights I am not getting the click click click as much, instead in tends to flicker the dash and reds and will eventually struggle and may start up!
• The car will stall on me occasionally while driving (usually in the lower revs when coming to a stop)
• Sometimes after getting it started pushing on the accelerator hard and fast will sound like the engine is about to choke and die and the revs do not go up until 2-3 seconds delay. Inversely if i accelerate slow and gradually the revs go up fine and the engine does not sound like its going to choke.

My mechanic has pulled the following codes (prior to the no start, crank issue):

• P0221
• P0100 - could not clear
• P0410 - could not clear

I have not been able to go back for a reading of codes since the car started having the no start, cranking issue, so could have new codes!

I have tried the following with no help:

• Crankshaft Sensor (replaced it today with BOSCH part, old part was very dirty!)
• Camshaft Position Sensor (reseated it, but haven't purchased replacement yet?)
• RCM board re soldering (did it twice and looks VERY clean, relays are clean, RCM housing is clean)
• Car Battery (contacts are clean and strong! battery is only 2 years old and a good one)
• MAF Sensor (was replaced a year ago due to some error codes and issues with my car choking when driving, fixed it!)

Please help me guys I am very frustrated and need to fix my baby

 

Possible corrosion in the neg. cable? Check the ground connection to chassis? Some of the symptoms you listed indicate there is a voltage supply problem.

 

There is no corrosion that I can see, everything looks very clean. There used to be very light white powder around the shunt but I cleaned that 6 months ago and never had an issue since.

How do I check the ground connection to chassis, sorry

 

Just follow the neg. lead to where it mounts.. there has been a few cases of it being an issue..

 

I posted a video of the issue - see first post

 

Negative to ground seems secure, see photos I took of battery and grounding to chassis. excuse the car needs a good clean soon!

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/8349/img7325z.jpg
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/9199/img7324n.jpg
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/4430/img7323h.jpg
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/5062/img7322w.jpg
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/5105/img7321ez.jpg

 

Test battery.
Replace throttle pedal p0221
Read current codes.

Where are you and how many miles on CF?

 

The negative wire could be corroded I just replaced mine when I was doing a big 3 wire upgrade and it made a huge difference. Voltage went from 13.5 to 14.3. So after 8 years it seems the wire has fallen apart.

 

BAS/ESP looks for minimum of 12V... if not there it errors out.

Check the battery with a load tester. Could have a weak cell. Have you tried starting with jumper cables attached?

 

I am from Australia with 102km on the car. More a weekend car.

I will measure the battery tonight, do I just use a normal multi meter and do I do it when car us off as well as when running? What exact voltages am I looking to have when in off and in idle?

I think I will replace the batter lead cables as well since they could be corroded inside and cant see, can someone please point me to where I can buy these leads with their rings from? In Aus if possible. Or can I purchase any generic car batter cable leads?

 

Just generic parts will work. If there's a car stereo place you could get everything pretty easily.

 

Tested the battery.

~12.3V when engine OFF
~12.0V when lights ON (engine off)
~11.5V when lights,radio,air are ON (engine off)
~13.8V when engine ON

Are the volts supposed to drop when there is load applied and engine is OFF? this is normal right?

And are my voltages too low overall? does this sound like a bad battery or corroded/dirty cables/connection?

 

So I cleaned the battery connections a little, and the car seemed to start up upon first go this time.

After letting the car sit for a couple hours, I retested the battery and got slightly better voltages:

~12.5V with engine OFF
~14.10V with engine ON

I took the car for a drive but I still get the choking response after driving it for a while, and when attempting to accelerate quick the car chokes then responds, inversely if I accelerate slowly there's no choke. Does this relate to the "throttle pedal" since I also have code P0221?

Unfortunately, I am still experiencing the false starts as well, see new videso below.

Video Notes:
- Car will attempt to start but die, with the BAS/ESP light come ON.
- Car will only start properly when holding accelerator while starting, and must keeping revs high! otherwise it will stall and switch off, with BAS/ESP light coming on.
- Sometimes, instead of stalling and switching off it will go into this weird idle mode where the revs will fluctuate around 1.2k and there is NO accelerator pedal response at all (seen in video 2)

 

Use a multimeter to test how far the voltage drops when you start the car, not just while it's off and while it's running. I had a battery that would drop below 9 volts when trying to start the car, but of course while it was both off and running it would be above 12 volts.

 

And I'd almost bet when you turn the ignition to on.. stereo going.. heater blowing.. as in a "normal" start.. before hitting "crank" your going to be below 12v or dancing right at it..

 

I tested the voltage drop when starting the car, as well as with load. It seems the voltage drops around 9 Volts.

Video shows:

- Initial starting of car voltage drops to 9.07V
- After turning car OFF, and leaving the reds ON and adding load, aircon, lights, heated seats, radio, etc the voltage drops to 11.3V (is this normal under load when engine OFF?)

 

Also just did a drain battery test, and could not see any significant drain on the battery when OFF. Getting just a 0.13A drain on the battery which is well below what would be considered a drain on the battery.

 

I took the car to a auto shop and got the battery condition check. Result came back with "Replace Battery"

I replaced the battery with a top end expensive one with I think 780CCA.

Car still will exhibit the same issue in the video above where the car WILL crank but then revs drop and die, unless I accelerate alot during startup.

Driving the car I feel it has a little more response overall when gunning it! but maybe thats just my head playing tricks coz of the new batt but I honestly feel like its more responsive.

Anyway took it to my mechanic and pulled the following codes:

P0446
P20D4
P0101
P0102
P0453
P203B

He said most likely a lot of them are a result of one going bad, the rest pull up codes until that one part is fixed.

 

Was this a Bosch MAF sensor ?
All those codes and much info on the MB forum points to aftermarket MAF sensors reading too high a voltage overall.

Try this : Unplug the MAF sensor and see if you have the same symptoms.

( I have a C class MB engine cover that requires I unplug my MAF from the NW CAI to remove it, a couple of times I replaced the engine cover and forgot to reconnect the MAF. My symptoms were very similar to yours ...... )

 

P0101 is a code I had pop up before, it's for the MAF sensor. I cleaned mine off using MAF cleaner and also cleaned out the throttle body while I was at it. Took maybe 30 minutes overall. Did a throttle reset when I was done and it worked well enough until I could get a new MAF sensor for me to swap out this weekend. Also while I was at it, I convinced the wife I needed the 74mm throttle body as well!